Jon Snow = Aegon in Daenerys' vision

[Imisowo]

 Is it possible that Rhaegar took Lyanna away because she was pregnant? He understands what taking her away will do and I think only an event like this can account for Rhaegar's rash action of taking her away. Maybe he then married her to to make sure his child was not born a bastard and stayed with her to see his child's birth

"He has a song", the man replied. He is the prince that was promised and his song is the song of ice and fire."

before returning to face Robert in battle. Moreover if Jon's birth name is Aegon (or anything Rhaegar had named him), Eddard Stark will have changed his name when he brought him home. I know Lyanna was found in blood suggesting child birth, but that could have been from something else e.g. protecting her child. 

I know there will be several lope holes to this theory but I keep thinking about it.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

As far as I recall, someone should correct me if I am wrong GRRM had confirmed that the woman in Dany's vision is Elia. Also for Lyanna to die in a bed of blood it means that the childbirth was almost two weaks before that. I don't think that there was enough time for Rhaegar to go to KL then fight with Robert at the Trident, for the Sack of KL and at last for Ned to find Lyanna in a bed of blood. 

And even if you were right, who would be Lyanna's baby father and when she got pregnant?

[Leonardo]

52 minutes ago, Imisowo said:

 Is it possible that Rhaegar took Lyanna away because she was pregnant? He understands what taking her away will do and I think only an event like this can account for Rhaegar's rash action of taking her away. Maybe he then married her to to make sure his child was not born a bastard and stayed with her to see his child's birth

"He has a song", the man replied. He is the prince that was promised and his song is the song of ice and fire."

before returning to face Robert in battle. Moreover if Jon's birth name is Aegon (or anything Rhaegar had named him), Eddard Stark will have changed his name when he brought him home. I know Lyanna was found in blood suggesting child birth, but that could have been from something else e.g. protecting her child. 

I know there will be several lope holes to this theory but I keep thinking about it.

Lyanna died of a fever as per Ned's recollection, likely from complications due to the birth(if there was one) 

Theres a lot of fishy stuff regarding his memories though; I wouldnt be surprised if was figurative blood, or it implies Rhaegar didn't care if she lived or died because he doesn't seem to have brought a maester or septon. Twit

[RobOsevens]

1 minute ago, Leonardo said:

Theres a lot of fishy stuff regarding his memories though; I wouldnt be surprised if was figurative blood, or it implies Rhaegar didn't care if she lived or died because he doesn't seem to have brought a maester or septon. Twit

Why twit? We literally have no information about the situation other than Ned's fishy fever dreams.  There may have been a maester or there may not have been time. We do not know the circumstances you are just making assumptions, literally everything we know about Rhaegar is hearsay based on memories from a decade ago

[ShadowCat Rivers]

Timeline issues aside, what would the fllow-up line "there must be one more" be there for?

[voldemormont]

I don't believe it's Lyanna, but hey let's entertain this thought.

After Rhaegar says "there must be one more" Dany feels as if he is staring at her. This is very ominous. 

If the baby Aegon in the vision is Jon, one could assumr that R+L knocked boots again to produce another child. GRRM says Jon is 8-9 months  older than Dany. This would lead one to think perhaps Lyanna died birthing Dany, & not Jon. 

Now we know for a fact, Danys mom died in childbirth, & not necessarily Jon (all we know for sure is he was born, & poeple of westeros think his mother is alive in some wylla or dead ashara) And we know there are no Lemon trees in Braavos. Maybe Jon was already in Starfall suckin tits with Edric when Ned arrived with baby Dany. Seeing as Jon is undeniably Stark, & Dany Targ, Ned would be forced to leave the Targ behind as Daynes resemble Targs, no suspicion would arise.

But idk. I still don't see how or should I say why Dany ended up with Viserys. 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

2 minutes ago, voldemormont said:

IIf the baby Aegon in the vision is Jon, one could assumr that R+L knocked boots again to produce another child. GRRM says Jon is 8-9 months  older than Dany. This would lead one to think perhaps Lyanna died birthing Dany, & not Jon. 

Wouldn't that make Jon a lot older than Robb? Except if you mean that the second child was Jon.

But it any case I believe that it would need almost two years and as far as we know Lyanna was lost for only one year.

[voldemormont]

I

7 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

 any case I believe that it would need almost two years and as far as we know Lyanna was lost for only one year.

Staying with the OP that Lyanna was prego b4 she left could help & if child #2 was born early, causing the complications of Lyanna death.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

34 minutes ago, voldemormont said:

I

Staying with the OP that Lyanna was prego b4 she left could help & if child #2 was born early, causing the complications of Lyanna death.

Which IIRC about the timeline, still doesn't fit.

[Leonardo]

1 hour ago, RobOsevens said:

Why twit? We literally have no information about the situation other than Ned's fishy fever dreams.  There may have been a maester or there may not have been time. We do not know the circumstances you are just making assumptions, literally everything we know about Rhaegar is hearsay based on memories from a decade ago

The whole premise of their affair is Aerys-level insanity in regards to the state of the realm. Also there were months, so certainly time. He can keep two of the greatest warriors alive sitting on their thumbs during a war but can't get a maester or even septon/septa

 

Rhaegar Targaryen is like Ted Bundy - charming and sweet but insane

[RobOsevens]

5 minutes ago, Leonardo said:

The whole premise of their affair is Aerys-level insanity in regards to the state of the realm. Also there were months, so certainly time. He can keep two of the greatest warriors alive sitting on their thumbs during a war but can't get a maester or even septon/septa

 

Rhaegar Targaryen is like Ted Bundy - charming and sweet but insane

We do not know the whole premise. That is entirely you placing your own bias onto a situation we know almost nothing about.

[Beautiful Bloody Sword]

2 hours ago, RobOsevens said:

We do not know the whole premise. That is entirely you placing your own bias onto a situation we know almost nothing about.

True that. But, it happens so often regarding Rhaegar, I've began to expect it, and hope he's vindicated in the next two books. I'd love to laugh in all the haters faces.

[LiveFirstDieLater]

5 hours ago, Imisowo said:

 Is it possible that Rhaegar took Lyanna away because she was pregnant? He understands what taking her away will do and I think only an event like this can account for Rhaegar's rash action of taking her away. Maybe he then married her to to make sure his child was not born a bastard and stayed with her to see his child's birth

"He has a song", the man replied. He is the prince that was promised and his song is the song of ice and fire."

before returning to face Robert in battle. Moreover if Jon's birth name is Aegon (or anything Rhaegar had named him), Eddard Stark will have changed his name when he brought him home. I know Lyanna was found in blood suggesting child birth, but that could have been from something else e.g. protecting her child. 

I know there will be several lope holes to this theory but I keep thinking about it.

I've been saying this for years!

At this point I honestly believe that R+L=J&D...

Now people get their panties all in a bunch about the timeline and Rob's comparative age to Jon. But let me address those, and add a few other nice supporting details...

First, to be clear I'm proposing (and I'm sure not the first to do so) that Lyanna ran away with Rheagar because she found out she was pregnant... With Jon, who Rheagar calls Aegon. Then she get pregnant again, and dies giving birth to Dany. 

People love to misquote the SSM where George said that Jon was closer to 8 or 9 months than a year older than Dany... But he's still very vaugue. And I think it is all intentionally pretty vaugue to leave wiggle room for just this twist.

Next, Jon's age difference with Rob is actually directly addressed in the text, as we get a weird quote about Bastards growing up faster... Not to mention that the timelines are vague enough that it's all foggy

But I think there are a number of hints that are very hard to explain unless Dany is Lyanna's daughter... Like why is it a flaming man and a giant wolf in MMD's tent... Repeatedly mentioned and referred to later... And the House of the undying is full of visions of Starks... Why would Dany see Starks if she had no relation? Everyone else seems to be related to her... (I think the wolf headed king at the feast of the dead looking at her with "mute appeal" is no the red wedding at all but Jon and Ghost, the only wolf notoriously mute, but either way) Also some odd lines at the end of the house like the cup of ice, cup of fire bit...

Of course the house with the red door and the lemon tree beg questions... And Ser Willem is remembered with a limp... Hmm Ned remembers only two men lived to ride away... But he only brings back Lyanna's bones... Of note is Lord Dustin, who's Ref Stalion is returned but not him... We didn't learn until the appendix of Dance that his first name was William... And I believe he is the man Dany remembers at the house with the red door with its lemon tree.

In Dany's 'wake the dragon' dream sequence she runs down a stone hallway with dead kings on either side... Sounds a hell of a lot like a Crypt dream, you know, like all the Stark children get... Where she sees herself as Rheagar.

Finally for now, is Ned's quote about having to "save the children"... But there is so much more

 

[Raisin' Bran]

3 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

First, to be clear I'm proposing (and I'm sure not the first to do so) that Lyanna ran away with Rheagar because she found out she was pregnant... With Jon, who Rheagar calls Aegon. Then she get pregnant again, and dies giving birth to Dany. 

People love to misquote the SSM where George said that Jon was closer to 8 or 9 months than a year older than Dany... But he's still very vaugue. And I think it is all intentionally pretty vaugue to leave wiggle room for just this twist.

Next, Jon's age difference with Rob is actually directly addressed in the text, as we get a weird quote about Bastards growing up faster... Not to mention that the timelines are vague enough that it's all foggy

But I think there are a number of hints that are very hard to explain unless Dany is Lyanna's daughter... Like why is it a flaming man and a giant wolf in MMD's tent... Repeatedly mentioned and referred to later... And the House of the undying is full of visions of Starks... Why would Dany see Starks if she had no relation? Everyone else seems to be related to her... (I think the wolf headed king at the feast of the dead looking at her with "mute appeal" is no the red wedding at all but Jon and Ghost, the only wolf notoriously mute, but either way) Also some odd lines at the end of the house like the cup of ice, cup of fire bit...

Of course the house with the red door and the lemon tree beg questions... And Ser Willem is remembered with a limp... Hmm Ned remembers only two men lived to ride away... But he only brings back Lyanna's bones... Of note is Lord Dustin, who's Ref Stalion is returned but not him... We didn't learn until the appendix of Dance that his first name was William... And I believe he is the man Dany remembers at the house with the red door with its lemon tree.

In Dany's 'wake the dragon' dream sequence she runs down a stone hallway with dead kings on either side... Sounds a hell of a lot like a Crypt dream, you know, like all the Stark children get... Where she sees herself as Rheagar.

Finally for now, is Ned's quote about having to "save the children"... But there is so much more

You have done a decent job compiling these facts, I will not touch the timeline (which I am foggy on and do not presume to know really at all)

Though there are a few things that do not make sense to me.

1) Why is Dany's birth constantly put at Dragonstone?

2) If Dany was not born at Dragonstone, how did she meet up with Viserys? (Voldemormont asked this)

3) If Dany's mother was Lyanna, why would Viserys not forgive Dany for her mother dying birthing her?

4) William Dustin and Ser Willem Darry. yes they have similar first names, and yes their last names begin with d, but I cannot see how someone would confuse the two (Viserys, I think, would know the difference).

[Maxxine]

I don't believe it's Lyanna, but hey let's entertain this thought.

After Rhaegar says "there must be one more" Dany feels as if he is staring at her. This is very ominous. 

If the baby Aegon in the vision is Jon, one could assumr that R+L knocked boots again to produce another child. GRRM says Jon is 8-9 months  older than Dany. This would lead one to think perhaps Lyanna died birthing Dany, & not Jon. 

Now we know for a fact, Danys mom died in childbirth, & not necessarily Jon (all we know for sure is he was born, & poeple of westeros think his mother is alive in some wylla or dead ashara) And we know there are no Lemon trees in Braavos. Maybe Jon was already in Starfall suckin tits with Edric when Ned arrived with baby Dany. Seeing as Jon is undeniably Stark, & Dany Targ, Ned would be forced to leave the Targ behind as Daynes resemble Targs, no suspicion would arise.

But idk. I still don't see how or should I say why Dany ended up with Viserys. 

I think your last sentence is my biggest issue with any R+L=D theory. What about Viserys? He was around 8 I think when Dany. Too old for you to just dump a fake sister on him & him not notice. And I can't believe he was in on it. We saw what kind of person Viserys. As much as he insulted her he never let that secret slip in 14 years? Plus where is the baby we know Rhaella had at Dragonstone?

Also if the baby in vision is Jon (named Aegon) and he is looking at Dany to make the 3rd wouldn't that make 4? Since we know for sure that Rhaegar already had 2 other children. What child is he leaving out? And he named two children Aegon? Not unheard of but weird.

[Daemon Blackfyre IV]

only way Jon is the baby in the vision is if Lyanna was pregnant twice

[TOM of the North]

14 hours ago, Imisowo said:

 Is it possible that Rhaegar took Lyanna away because she was pregnant? He understands what taking her away will do and I think only an event like this can account for Rhaegar's rash action of taking her away. Maybe he then married her to to make sure his child was not born a bastard and stayed with her to see his child's birth

"He has a song", the man replied. He is the prince that was promised and his song is the song of ice and fire."

before returning to face Robert in battle. Moreover if Jon's birth name is Aegon (or anything Rhaegar had named him), Eddard Stark will have changed his name when he brought him home. I know Lyanna was found in blood suggesting child birth, but that could have been from something else e.g. protecting her child. 

I know there will be several lope holes to this theory but I keep thinking about it.

1: do you suggest that Rhaegar named his first son Aegon and his second son Aegon?. That is just .............

2: Martin said that Dany is 8-9 months younger than Jon.

3. Rhaegar did not meet Jon unless he was conceived at Harrenhal, but that would be imposible because Jon is about the same age as Robb, +/- 2-3 months

4. "There must be one more," he said,......... "The dragon has three heads." - Rhaegar already had two kids so...... 2+1=3

5."He has a song", the man replied. He is the prince that was promised and his song is the song of ice and fire."- A comet was seen above King's Landing on the night Aegon was conceived, which led his father Rhaegar Targaryen to believe that he was the prince that was promised.

[joluoto2]

Jon is younger than Robb. That much we know. The timeline is indeed as usually very wonky, but if we are to Believe that Robb was concieved at the time of Ned's and Catelyn's wedding, we must also assume Jon is concieved somewhat later than that.

We know Jon had a wet-nurse in Winterfel, so we know Ned took Jon to Winterfel when Jon and Robb were of such young age that it would show clearly who was older (which is why Ned had to pretend he cheated on his wife, because Jon was clearly younger than Robb, otherwise Ned could have said it was a bastard from a pre-martial relation, which would be bad, but not as bad).

[Lady Blizzardborn]

19 hours ago, Leonardo said:

The whole premise of their affair is Aerys-level insanity in regards to the state of the realm.

<snip

No it wasn't. For one thing Aerys-level insanity is a pretty huge accusation and should only be applied to people who do things that have no possible good explanation. Like burning your Warden of the North to death along with his son (who actually had it coming, to an extent) and then demanding the heads of two other people who had done exactly ZERO things wrong/illegal/threatening. Or drinking wildfire because you think it will turn you into a literal dragon.

For another, there was no reason for Rhaegar to expect things to blow up in exactly the way they did. Would there have been a scandal? Yes. Would Robert have hated him forever? Very likely. Would Elia's family mind? Of course. But the rest of the kingdom would have been merely shocked and then complacent. It wasn't the first time a Targ messed with the daughter of a powerful family (*cough* Aegon IV *cough*), and as long as the royal family made amends and/or provided appropriately for Lyanna and any children who came along, there was no reason to expect a war to start.

Remember the war was started by Jon Arryn's response to Aerys' ridiculous request for the deaths of two innocent men, a request which would not have occurred if The Wild Wolf hadn't made a total ass of himself trying to handle something that was his father's business, and committing treason in the process. Robert Baratheon may have been furious that Rhaegar took Lyanna, but he did NOT start a fight over it. Ned may not even have heard about any of it until Rickard was summoned to KL.

Maybe Rhae Rhae should have expected his crazy father to do something stupid, but how was he to know the depths to which Aerys would sink? The king still had some periods of relative lucidity, and if he thought Rhaegar wanted the throne he should have been pleased to know that junior had just screwed up his chances of support for a coup by taking Lord Stark's daughter/the Storm Lord's betrothed, which the other lords were bound to find just unsettling enough that they would withdraw from any coup plans they'd made with Rhae Rhae, and if they were smart would also make a show of loyalties to the Mad King to further send the message home to Prince Emo that he could go it alone now.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

1 hour ago, joluoto2 said:

Jon is younger than Robb. That much we know. The timeline is indeed as usually very wonky, but if we are to Believe that Robb was concieved at the time of Ned's and Catelyn's wedding, we must also assume Jon is concieved somewhat later than that.

We know Jon had a wet-nurse in Winterfel, so we know Ned took Jon to Winterfel when Jon and Robb were of such young age that it would show clearly who was older (which is why Ned had to pretend he cheated on his wife, because Jon was clearly younger than Robb, otherwise Ned could have said it was a bastard from a pre-martial relation, which would be bad, but not as bad).

Precisely, Jon has to at least pass for younger than Robb, which means he cannot have been conceived prior to Lyanna's abduction. If he had, he'd be months ahead of Robb in development and people would have noticed. Also, Ned could easily have claimed he fathered Jon before the war.

And...Ned had Jon and his wetnurse at Winterfell before Catelyn and Robb got there, which meant Catelyn couldn't do a thing about it. No chance to forbid or prevent Jon from living there when he was in residence before she was. That was actually a pretty astute move on Ned's part.