Mance=Rhaegar

[Ser Leftwich]

52 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Can someone be resurrected after being cremated? He is  phoenix or something?

Ashes to ashes, Rhance to Mance.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

22 hours ago, Ser Leftwich said:

Ashes to ashes, Rhance to Mance.

My mother said to get things done you'd better not mess with the Demon of the Trident.

[Wheels]

7 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

My mother said to get things done you'd better not mess with the Demon of the Trident.

Please keep your vainglorious comments theory related.

[W1NT3RF3LL]

Something that triggered this thought when you brought up the battle of the Trident.  Does anyone think the red ruby that the red women wear could possibly be the rubys from Rhaegar's chest plate?  I know sounds nuts, just thought of it for some reason.

[Wheels]

8 hours ago, W1NT3RF3LL said:

Something that triggered this thought when you brought up the battle of the Trident.  Does anyone think the red ruby that the red women wear could possibly be the rubys from Rhaegar's chest plate?  I know sounds nuts, just thought of it for some reason.

Possible, but i doubt it. If the books follow the show we know Mel is hundreds of years old. Unlikely that she would have one of Rhaegar's rubies. More likely she's had the same ones for a long time. I imagine she only first arrived on Dragonstone sometime during the events of the first book right after Stannis fled kings landing. Cool idea though and it doesn't mean that his rubies don't have dome special magical significance.

[Wheels]

10 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

I will. Once I see a theory.

Does it make you feel good to shit all over someones work that they spent many hours putting together for the enjoyment of others? Your comments contributed to the dissolution of my last thread on this topic and have so far only served to take up space with your ridiculous signature on this one. Get off the thread your opinion is clear.

[Wheels]

On 2016-05-25 at 2:51 AM, Jedi Renee said:

If Mance is rhaegar, does he recognize John as his son?

Yes I personally believe that he does

[tugela]

On ‎5‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 11:55 AM, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

Well done. Still false, mind you, but well done nevertheless.

Mance Rayder has a history. He was raised from a child by the Watch. He didn't appear out of thin air just after the Battle of the Trident.

Nobody in the story elaborates on the further fate of Rhaegar's remains? Maybe because there was nothing remarkable about that. Nothing remarkable such as "his body and armor mysteriously disappeared from the battlefield, nobody knows anything about it". By the way, did they talked much about what happened to Aerys' body after his death? I don't recall. Probably because there was nothing to say - he died, his remains were disposed of the customary way, end of story.

As for "how a dude not being Rhaegar Targaryen could become King Beyond the Wall?", well, that's just something that happen every now and then, from Joramun to Raymun Redbeard.

If Qhorin is Arthur, and Mance is Rhaegar, then Qhorin's sacrifice seems completely daft and pointless.

Same for Dany: first, pretending she's Rhaegar's sister, instead of his daughter, does very little for shielding her from Robert Baratheon's wrath. And second, such things as royal births are public events, so more or less everybody on Dragonstone knew who birthed whom when - and there's no such thing as "couple hundred of people successfully keeping a secret for fifteen years".

If GRRM doesn't want to reveal a bit of information, he simply refuses to comment ("keep reading", "that's actually an interesting question - next one, please", or compatible). I see no reason not to take his "probably closer to 9 months" answer at the face value.

The whole "twins with multiple baby swaps" thing comes, I reckon, from the belief that "R+L=J" is too simple to be true - but that's only the result of George taking twenty bloody years (and counting) to wrap up the series.

In Daenerys's case, pretending that she was Rhaegar's sister rather than his daughter serves a very important function. As his sister she would be a legitimate Targaryen, but as his daughter she would be a bastard, and consequently of no importance. The people doing the baby swap would have been motivated with ensuring that Visyerys had a wife of the appropriate heritage.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

13 hours ago, Wheels said:

Does it make you feel good to shit all over someones work that they spent many hours putting together for the enjoyment of others? Your comments contributed to the dissolution of my last thread on this topic and have so far only served to take up space with your ridiculous signature on this one. Get off the thread your opinion is clear.

Your *work* has  already been proved to be wrong both by the author’s word and by Ran who iirc called it “ridiculous”. Also is illogical since there is nothing in the books to imply that a cremated person can be resurrected.  Now if you wish to keep flogging a dead horse it your choice and is my choice to point out your mistakes.

[Nevets]

When you admitted that Rhaegar and Mance looked nothing alike, you lost me on that one.  I would like to point out that Mance takes an anagram of Bael as his name probably because he is intending to steal a Stark girl from Winterfell.  Nothing more.

I have seen nothing to indicate Arthur Dayne is Qhorin, or indeed anything other than dead.  As for the "they" at the Tower of Joy, I doubt that the KG and Lyanna were the only people there.  They probably had servants, maids, and possibly even a wet nurse.  The "only two survived" comes directly after the 7 on 3 part, talking only about the fighters.

In the past, I have considered the possibility that Jon and Dany are twins. I have come to doubt it, largely because I have not found convincing evidence to support it, either in-universe or in a literary sense.  While it is obvious that he could not take a cihld who looks like Daenerys as his own, there would be other options.  Leaving her with the Daynes makes sense, as they have family members who share her look.  

On 4/3/2016 at 8:41 PM, Wheels said:

It is decided that Ashara will make the journey with baby Dany to meet up with the Targaryen loyalists at Dragonstone where they agreed she would be the safest.

How the hell is Dragonstone safe?  It is probably the most dangerous place in the seven kingdoms to hid someone like that.  It has about a 100% gold-plated guarantee of being attacked, and quite possibly sacked.  As it was, Darry had to smuggle the kids out a few months later.  Far safer to keep her in Dorne.  If you're really desperate, hide her in the swamp with Howland or in Lys, where she'll blend in.  But I can see no imaginable reason to send her to Dragonstone.

On 4/3/2016 at 8:41 PM, Wheels said:

The next time we see Ned he's in the black cells dreaming of broken promises. But why broken promises now? Jon is safely at the wall and he raised Jon in his own household as one of his children. Broken Promise to tell Jon about his true parentage? Broken Promises to Cat? Ned doesn't even know what his fate is yet. But something is hurting him enough to give him nightmares of blood and broken promises and its not the fact he didn't eat the boar.

---> It has to be the thought of Daenarys that brings back all these nearly forgotten feelings about broken promises and blood and the tower of Joy. Ned is a prisoner and just found out the assassination can't be stopped.

He has a pretty good idea that survival isn't likely.  He's not going to make it to the Wall and he knows it.  Also, his children are in danger, so any promises he made about t hem are probably broken.  As for the assassination, I don't recall anything about promises broken when it was proposed and later ordered by Robert.

I have also never seen a convincing reason for it.  Dany is unnecessary for Viserys.  If he wants to marry his sister, great.  But once she dies, it's not like a substitute is going to do any good.  She isn't necessary for any marriage plots.  The one involving Dorne only included Viserys. and I know damn well the one involving Drogo wasn't in the works for 10+ years.  Plus, I don't really see it adding enough to the story.  At this point, I hold firmly to the belief that Daenerys was born on Dragonstone to Rhaella Targaryen.

A word about Podrick:  Brienne describes him as being about 10 in AFFC.  Tyrion says he is 12 in ASOS.  If he were Brandon's son, he would be around 17.  While his age is a bit indeterminate, no way is he 17.  By the way, I think Ashara survived her suicide attempt and is now Septa Lemore.

[Wheels]

1 hour ago, Nevets said:

When you admitted that Rhaegar and Mance looked nothing alike, you lost me on that one.

I agree, none of it is convincing (let alone interesting) if you take it all at face value.

[Nevets]

57 minutes ago, Wheels said:

I agree, none of it is convincing (let alone interesting) if you take it all at face value.

I know better than to take everything at face value.  However, when the available evidence is in direct contradiction to a theory, I am going to have problems.  Especially if there is no reason to doubt the available evidence.  You will note that I did not entirely reject your notions on Daenerys.  I think them unlikely, but not ridiculous, as opposed to the first part.

[Wheels]

Evidence? your evidence relies on the same speculation that I use in my theories. The only fact that is clear to me is that this is a grand mystery and GRRM intended it to be that way and intended for us to speculate over it. Your reasons for rejecting my theory are equally as likely to be true as the theory is.

[DayDreamerz]

11 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Your *work* has  already been proved to be wrong both by the author’s word and by Ran who iirc called it “ridiculous”. Also is illogical since there is nothing in the books to imply that a cremated person can be resurrected.  Now if you wish to keep flogging a dead horse it your choice and is my choice to point out your mistakes.

wheels is right get off the thread if you have nothing of substance to contribute

On 2016-05-27 at 3:58 PM, Wheels said:

take up space with your ridiculous signature

^so true

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Just now, DayDreamerz said:

ugh you are relentless. congrats on ruining the thread with your bleating. i expect it will be closed soon.

No answer? No logical explanation? No reason why the so called *theory* disagrees with the author himself?

[DayDreamerz]

On 2016-04-03 at 7:41 PM, Wheels said:

---> It’s highly likely that immediately after this moment Rhaegar’s friends and knights could have taken him from the field. The fastest route from the battle would have been right down the trident. In any case Robert is not the sort of man to have mutilated or dishonored his corpse. In the Novels and history there is no mention of what became of his body or that his funeral ever took place. Why would that be? (I am aware GRRM said he was cremated keep reading)

---> So Rhaegar’s body is washed down river possibly with the help of his missing friend ser Richard Lonmouth (Myles Mooton was killed earlier in the war but Lonmouth is never accounted for after the Ruby Ford) and they are washed right out the mouth of the Trident to the quiet isle (it's right at the mouth of the Trident). The Silent Brothers can see who he is and give him a traditional Targaryen burial AKA a Pyre. (this works alongside the notion that he was cremated like GRRM said in an interview although this is not in the books.) Because of the great power imbued in his blood he is resurrected out of the flames... He learns his whole family is dead, Lyanna is dead, Robert controls everything... stripped of all his power he has only his original purpose left and that is to stop the long night. Rhaegar Targaryen is dead and Mance Rayder is born. (Another theory has been brought to my attention and that is that the resurrected Rhaegar stole the identity of the Nights Watchmen Mance Rayder which admittedly makes slightly more sense than if he simply adopted it as an entirely new persona.)

 

I don't know why I'm explaining this to you but the idea is that Rhaegar was spared from the flames once on the day of his birth at summerhall through blood magic and was resurrected from his funeral pyre on the quiet isle after his death on the trident because of the magic imbued in his blood from his birth. OP's theory doesn't imply he was cremated to ashes. GRRM's "cremated" statement can be looked into as he literally was cremated into an urn or he was just given the traditional Targ burial. Because there is no other information on the topic other than GRRM's "cremated" statement we have theories that arise like this one. You seem to only accept the story in literal absolutes however so I don't see how explaining this is going to have any effect. and  I'm not sure what "logic" you're looking for here considering this is a fantasy story in a made up world with dragons and telepathy and ice zombies.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

On 29/5/2016 at 3:21 AM, DayDreamerz said:

Rhaegar was spared from the flames once on the day of his birth at summerhall through blood magic

When was that mentioned? Because from what we seem to know so far Dunk saved him and Rhaela. There is even a picture of his birth in twoiaf outside Summerhall.

On 29/5/2016 at 3:21 AM, DayDreamerz said:

was resurrected from his funeral pyre on the quiet isle

Why he had his funeral in Quiet Isle?

On 29/5/2016 at 3:21 AM, DayDreamerz said:

OP's theory[...]we have theories that arise like this one

This is not a theory. At best this is a crackpot turning to fanfiction.

On 29/5/2016 at 3:21 AM, DayDreamerz said:

I'm not sure what "logic" you're looking for here considering this is a fantasy story in a made up world with dragons and telepathy and ice zombies.

The fact that the books belong to the fantasy gene doesn't mean that they don't have logic. For example a small number of the logical questions that this fan fiction or so called theory doesn't answer;

Why GRRM used the word "cremated" if it hadn't happen?

Why GRRM had told something like “keep reading” the way he does when the question will be answered later in the books?

How Rhaegar was cremated at the Quiet Isle and no one had witnessed his "resurrection"?

Wouldn’t the Rebels had made sure that he was burned since if there were not witness it would had opened the door for many possible imposters comming in?

Does the Targs have recessive *fireproof* genes which work like "get out of a pyre unharmed" card?

Why Rhaegar left and became the KbtW and didn’t went to found his children or at least his mother and siblings?

How Rhaegar was able to create a back-story which involved the Night’s Watch and everyone at the Wall seemed to agree with his lies?

When Targs are resurrected they change their physical appearance too and by a striking 41 years old typical Targ male with dark indigo eyes and long silver hair they change to an unremarkable-looking 45-65 years old man with long mostly gray brown hair sharp face and brown eyes? Does this mean that Jon can turn to a 30 something Targaryen looking male after being resurrected? Does the Targ resurrection affects the gender too like the Time Lords?

[Ran]

I've removed several inappropriate posts from this thread. Stay civil, folks.

[TerrorVoid]

On 25.05.2016 at 6:22 PM, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Can someone be resurrected after being cremated? He is  phoenix or something?

Just so.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

49 minutes ago, TerrorVoid said:

Just so.

That means that ManceRhaegar's tears have healing powers and both Jon's and Night's King's swords have a hair of ManceRhaegar so they cannot fight each other?