[Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Reprecussions - Season 6, Tally-Ho

[kissdbyfire]

2 minutes ago, The Northern Scholar said:

Have they actually used the name Bloodraven yet? All the images and GOT-specific stuff I see only refers to him as the three-eyed raven.

I don't think they have, and I think there's a good chance they won't. Of course, like with so many things, this will fuel more arguments that Bloodraven is not the 3EC. Sigh.

[Sir Loin Steak]

1 hour ago, Liver and Onions said:

Oh, Rob Liefield... admittedly I think he's improved a bit over the years (can he draw feet yet?)

No. No he still can't. 

53 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

Conneth Hill really looks bored. 

That's the look of a man re-evaluating his life choices... or possibly trying to remember if he left the stove on.

 

1 hour ago, sweetsunray said:

And I'm sure that Dinklage is bored out of his skull playing St Tyrion for 2 seasons already.

Agree completely, the apathy seeps into his performance.

[TheCasualObserver]

I'm starting to think that I've already found the most annoying thing in the season. The Sandsneks are just nonsense, I don't give a shit about what happens on the wall, in KL or in Meereen and I don't care about upcoming Ironborn or Bran plots either. So much of the show has become white noise at this point.

But Brienne saving Sansa aggravates me like nothing else.

GOT is a show which is gleefully proud of itself for the idea that choices have consequences. Just look at the behind the episodes after Ned's death or the red wedding. This show is more "realistic", more "historical", presents a "truer narrative". Thisi s how the writers view their work and how many viewers understand the show, epitomized in the unbelievably smug quote "If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention."

So why then can Brienne choose to abandon her duty and go off on a personal quest to kill Stannis before coming back in the nick of time to save Sansa anyway? Wherein lay the impact of that decision? Where were the consequences that GOT is usually so quick to present?

In this moment, the show actively places the pursuit of retribution over the protection of the innocent. I'm sure Brienne will be a badass for Sansa from now on and the critics will hail it as empowered feminism at its best and how we all should have trusted D and D all along. Yet the central point will be missed entirely; given the choice between protecting an innocent and murdering a wounded and broken man, Brienne chose the latter. How can this not inform upon her character going forward? Why did the GRIMDARK world of Weisseroff not punish her for the decision as some many others have been?  

If Stannis had to die, wouldn't it have been more affecting (and more conclusive) if they'd gone the Mike Ermantraut route? (BREAKING BAD SPOILERS IMMINENT)

Mike, a fan favourite on Breaking bad, is gutshot by Walter White and dies by the side of a river as he and Walter stand in silence. His death is denoted by a camera pan outward as we just see him keel over into the dirt. Message received; Mike is dead. It's an image that has stayed with me for three years. 

Stannis is badly wounded in the fighting, so why not have him kill those last two Bolton men, lie down by the tree and pan out as he realizes the scale of his failure? Dillane gets one final chance to show why he's such a class act and the final shot is him keeling over. The end of a character and an incredibly ordinary death for a King (HINT - Players of the Game of Thrones die like anyone else - see? I't like a thematic point can be made).

It would be perfect.

We don't need to see ninja Brienne off him, because it ends up weakening three characters. Stannis because he gets a ridiculous death, Brienne because she abandons her duty and Sansa because she is prioritized second by her first sworn ally. It's just one of many examples of how the show's myopic obsession with vengeance makes it miss a simpler and more emotionally satisfying way of presenting a scene. Instead of appreciating the dramatic weight of that moment, how many people were bothered by Brienne finding Stannis in the middle of a battlefield? I'd wager there were more than the critics would like to admit.

Ramsay raped Sansa because his death will make for better revenge. Which is the same reason why he will kill Rickon. Because nothing matters but the revenge. 

Going back to Breaking bad, Mike wasn't killed because of some epic quest for vengeance. He simply lit a fire under Walter's ego. Him getting shot came across as petty and small, instantly regretted by Walter. It presents the murder in a mature and decidedly realistic way. This is smart. GOT is not. Thank you, quick Brienne scene in episode 1, for making that so clear to me.    

[Johnston]

49 minutes ago, The Northern Scholar said:

Have they actually used the name Bloodraven yet? All the images and GOT-specific stuff I see only refers to him as the three-eyed raven.

 I said earlier in the thread I think they are going to completely do away with Bloodraven and the Targ links and just have him as a random Nights Watchman. 

 

Hell maybe he'll be Benjen.  They'll explain Isaacs growing up by saying the Weirnet ages you prematurely 

[sweetsunray]

43 minutes ago, TheCasualObserver said:

I'm starting to think that I've already found the most annoying thing in the season. The Sandsneks are just nonsense, I don't give a shit about what happens on the wall, in KL or in Meereen and I don't care about upcoming Ironborn or Bran plots either. So much of the show has become white noise at this point.

But Brienne saving Sansa aggravates me like nothing else.

GOT is a show which is gleefully proud of itself for the idea that choices have consequences. Just look at the behind the episodes after Ned's death or the red wedding. This show is more "realistic", more "historical", presents a "truer narrative". Thisi s how the writers view their work and how many viewers understand the show, epitomized in the unbelievably smug quote "If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention."

So why then can Brienne choose to abandon her duty and go off on a personal quest to kill Stannis before coming back in the nick of time to save Sansa anyway? Wherein lay the impact of that decision? Where were the consequences that GOT is usually so quick to present?

In this moment, the show actively places the pursuit of retribution over the protection of the innocent. I'm sure Brienne will be a badass for Sansa from now on and the critics will hail it as empowered feminism at its best and how we all should have trusted D and D all along. Yet the central point will be missed entirely; given the choice between protecting an innocent and murdering a wounded and broken man, Brienne chose the latter. How can this not inform upon her character going forward? Why did the GRIMDARK world of Weisseroff not punish her for the decision as some many others have been?  

If Stannis had to die, wouldn't it have been more affecting (and more conclusive) if they'd gone the Mike Ermantraut route? (BREAKING BAD SPOILERS IMMINENT)

Mike, a fan favourite on Breaking bad, is gutshot by Walter White and dies by the side of a river as he and Walter stand in silence. His death is denoted by a camera pan outward as we just see him keel over into the dirt. Message received; Mike is dead. It's an image that has stayed with me for three years. 

Stannis is badly wounded in the fighting, so why not have him kill those last two Bolton men, lie down by the tree and pan out as he realizes the scale of his failure? Dillane gets one final chance to show why he's such a class act and the final shot is him keeling over. The end of a character and an incredibly ordinary death for a King (HINT - Players of the Game of Thrones die like anyone else - see? I't like a thematic point can be made).

It would be perfect.

We don't need to see ninja Brienne off him, because it ends up weakening three characters. Stannis because he gets a ridiculous death, Brienne because she abandons her duty and Sansa because she is prioritized second by her first sworn ally. It's just one of many examples of how the show's myopic obsession with vengeance makes it miss a simpler and more emotionally satisfying way of presenting a scene. Instead of appreciating the dramatic weight of that moment, how many people were bothered by Brienne finding Stannis in the middle of a battlefield? I'd wager there were more than the critics would like to admit.

Ramsay raped Sansa because his death will make for better revenge. Which is the same reason why he will kill Rickon. Because nothing matters but the revenge. 

Going back to Breaking bad, Mike wasn't killed because of some epic quest for vengeance. He simply lit a fire under Walter's ego. Him getting shot came across as petty and small, instantly regretted by Walter. It presents the murder in a mature and decidedly realistic way. This is smart. GOT is not. Thank you, quick Brienne scene in episode 1, for making that so clear to me.    

Well, I'm pretty sure that GRRM would have wirtten Brienne deciding to abandon Sansa's candle in order to kill a beaten king would have had consequences: the struggle of choices, struggle of the heart after all.

But the show never made evil deeds have consequences...no those are rewarded. Itt areonly good deeds that have bad consequences in the show.

[kissdbyfire]

That was an excellent post, @TheCasualObserver. 

[King Onion Knight]

I am just saddened that I think the show would rather create "shocking" moments instead of proper storytelling and character development. 

[LadySoftheart]

8 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Incredibly predictable. Which is hilarious if you consider the only thing the show cares about in terms of plotting is SHOCK and TWISTS!

Getting my The Wire dvds ready to start re-watching it because I don't need the bad pussy, I need good writing!

At this point, my feelings about GoT can be summed up with a quote from The Wire -"Get on with it, motherf*****s!" Kill everyone, put them out of their misery and illogical plots and ridiculous character assassinations and be done with it!

Speaking of "The Wire" - remember how SPOILERS

Spoiler

Omar's death was actually a huge shock? But it was earned by the show and it made it all the harder to process that this larger than life figure got taken down by some kid with a gun? Remember Omar's slow burn vengeance for his boyfriend? Remember how the plots were seeded seasons in advance ... Sigh!!

 

[kissdbyfire]

7 minutes ago, LadySoftheart said:

At this point, my feelings about GoT can be summed up with a quote from The Wire -"Get on with it, motherf*****s!" Kill everyone, put them out of their misery and illogical plots and ridiculous character assassinations and be done with it!

Speaking of "The Wire" - remember how SPOILERS

  Reveal hidden contents

Omar's death was actually a huge shock? But it was earned by the show and it made it all the harder to process that this larger than life figure got taken down by some kid with a gun? Remember Omar's slow burn vengeance for his boyfriend? Remember how the plots were seeded seasons in advance ... Sigh!!

 

And put us out of ours as well!

Yes, I remember... And I've only watched the first three eps of s 1 today, and am already stunned by how rich the characterisations are! And the dialogue! Damn, to think about the wasted potential with GoT...

[Le Cygne]

2 hours ago, TheCasualObserver said:

In this moment, the show actively places the pursuit of retribution over the protection of the innocent. I'm sure Brienne will be a badass for Sansa from now on and the critics will hail it as empowered feminism at its best and how we all should have trusted D and D all along. Yet the central point will be missed entirely; given the choice between protecting an innocent and murdering a wounded and broken man, Brienne chose the latter. How can this not inform upon her character going forward? Why did the GRIMDARK world of Weisseroff not punish her for the decision as some many others have been? 

I hate that it's hailed as such because "women are better" is not the point, in fact, a distortion.

A casualty here is a man, Sandor, who protected Sansa many times, and he did it for love, and she always came first, and at great personal risk to him, but there's no such thing as love on this show, and they never truly cared about giving this woman character the slightest depth, they use her as a prop.

He's not a woman on top, so let's just conveniently forget that ever happened. Because it's the season of women on top. But it's not, they are mocking women by pretending that gender is all that matters, after their dismal portrayal of women. And it's frankly insulting to push that hey, Brienne is a woman, so let's forget everything else.

Just a few episodes ago, she chose revenge for a man, Renly, over protecting a woman, Sansa. She chose to kill a man who was trying to kill the man who was raping a woman (and they had him say rape made her a woman). And to pretend nothing matters but an empty gesture is just making both women seem less of a person.

(And let's not forget, this isn't the book story, the stories the author wrote for these two women were cut.)

[kissdbyfire]

And now the Brute will meet Davos at CB. Will Stannis be mentioned at all? Nah, hand wave the fuck out of it all, no one will remember anything and all shall praise the "greatest show on earth". LOL

[OldGimletEye]

7 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

And now the Brute will meet Davos at CB. Will Stannis be mentioned at all? Nah, hand wave the fuck out of it all, no one will remember anything and all shall praise the "greatest show on earth". LOL

If you believe Chewbacca lives on Endor, then you must believe Stannis being killed by Brienne is insignificant.

[kissdbyfire]

4 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

If you believe Chewbacca lives on Endor, then you must believe Stannis being killed by Brienne is insignificant.

I know, I keep forgetting that! Maybe it's a side effect, it's rubbing off on me since everything is forgotten on the show!

[Ruhail]

But it was explained offscreen /S

[rosehustle1]

I think the whole 'revenge' motivation for every character is getting to be almost meaningless at this point. Also it totally misses the thematic point of the novels. Revenge doesn't change what happened nor bring back who was killed and often the characters realize the emptiness of this motivations once achieved. Will Brienne have that kind of moment upon reflection? I doubt it. I also can understand Sansa wanting revenge but the idea that she had to be sexually brutalized before feeling this kind of motivation is really disturbing. I mean the girl saw her father decapitated in front of her, she was made to look at his severed head, she was nearly gang raped, she was publicly beaten and stripped , she was forced to marry a Lannister, she was nearly murdered by her own aunt, she is framed for Joffrey's murder,she lost her mother and brother to a vile murder scheme, and she believes she is the only Stark alive. That is more than enough trauma to motivate this character to want to regain her home and vanquish her enemies. I won't like any of the faux empowerment they give her this season because it's them basically trotting out the Rape=Empowerment story line which I think really trivializes what she went through and sends a terrible message that this is the only way women can gain some kind of internal strength, by being sexually violated first. Again this show is faux feminist and that reviewers are even hailing the Sand Snake idiocy last episode tells me that people really don't understand what feminism actually entails.

[Airemyn]

I finally had a chance to post my review of last week's episode on my tumblr but I'm sure you are all already thinking of the next episode (or watching it already? I'm in the UK and it's not on until tomorrow night). Take a look if you're interested.

[Sir Loin Steak]

19 minutes ago, Ruhail said:

But it was explained offscreen /S

 I made the mistake of questioning that article of faith elsewhere. For the sake of my sanity I'll be sticking to the rant threads, where logic exists.

[sweetsunray]

33 minutes ago, Ruhail said:

But it was explained offscreen /S

dwarfsplained or non-splained?

[sweetsunray]

26 minutes ago, rosehustle1 said:

I think the whole 'revenge' motivation for every character is getting to be almost meaningless at this point. Also it totally misses the thematic point of the novels. Revenge doesn't change what happened nor bring back who was killed and often the characters realize the emptiness of this motivations once achieved. Will Brienne have that kind of moment upon reflection? I doubt it. I also can understand Sansa wanting revenge but the idea that she had to be sexually brutalized before feeling this kind of motivation is really disturbing. I mean the girl saw her father decapitated in front of her, she was made to look at his severed head, she was nearly gang raped, she was publicly beaten and stripped , she was forced to marry a Lannister, she was nearly murdered by her own aunt, she is framed for Joffrey's murder,she lost her mother and brother to a vile murder scheme, and she believes she is the only Stark alive. That is more than enough trauma to motivate this character to want to regain her home and vanquish her enemies. I won't like any of the faux empowerment they give her this season because it's them basically trotting out the Rape=Empowerment story line which I think really trivializes what she went through and sends a terrible message that this is the only way women can gain some kind of internal strength, by being sexually violated first. Again this show is faux feminist and that reviewers are even hailing the Sand Snake idiocy last episode tells me that people really don't understand what feminism actually entails.

Completely agreed! Well said!

[Davros Seaworth]

So I've finally caught up to this thread by reading through it whilst doing other things, and using my weekend, but it turns out, I have little to ad really, we all know how terrible and illogical episode 1 was and expect episode 2 to be no better. I was annoyed by the indignity of Doran's murder and the stupidity of it, and was very bored by the Larry and Carol talk. I do like the "InstaFriends" term that seems to have been coined, makes me even more annoyed about poor Pyp and Grenn, especially my fave Pyp. Davos was as good as he can be with what he was given though his actions still don't make sense either. I'm staying up to watch episode 2 for some reason, but only because I've already read spoilers. I will not watch a single episode without knowing a decent amount of what will happen, that way I am prepared for it, and will not get angry at the screen as I have done in the past.