Arya & the waif

[Cas Stark]

LOL. Sure, of course she can do another 180 within the next two episodes.  In fact, I predict that the very next time we see "no one" it will be 100% clear that she's Arya Stark, inside and out.

The drinking of the water was, ah, I hate to say it again, but stupid and geared to people who don't care about plot.

We already saw people drink the water and die.  Were they no one, too?  How exactly does this magic water work that knows what you think so you will die or not die based on what is in your own mind? Oh right, fantasy, dragons and shit so no rules need exist.  

That was just another of the show's cheap thrills where they want the audience, the small part who remembers the water is poison to go OMG poison water!!!! Oh, relief!!! The rest of the audience doesn't care what is happening...she's being beaten, now she has her eyes back, thank god, maybe something will happen.

Quite frankly, people on this forum spend a lot more time finding meaning and logic behind the show than the writers do, I am certain of that.

[dbunting]

1 minute ago, Cas Stark said:

The drinking of the water was, ah, I hate to say it again, but stupid and geared to people who don't care about plot.

We already saw people drink the water and die.  Were they no one, too?  How exactly does this magic water work that knows what you think so you will die or not die based on what is in your own mind? Oh right, fantasy, dragons and shit so no rules need exist.  

You are not making any sense. We saw people drink the water and die...because they were someone, not  no one. They were sacrificing themselves to the many faced god to pay for a FM to do a task. Jaqen clearly said that if she was no one then she had nothing to fear from the water, that kind of thing is how fantasy books and shows work.

[Cas Stark]

11 minutes ago, dbunting said:

You are not making any sense. We saw people drink the water and die...because they were someone, not  no one. They were sacrificing themselves to the many faced god to pay for a FM to do a task. Jaqen clearly said that if she was no one then she had nothing to fear from the water, that kind of thing is how fantasy books and shows work.

How do you know they were someone? So, only if you are someone and come to die, you die, but if you're beaten down by life and feel like no one, the water won't kill you?  That is absurd. Her drinking the water that suddenly became about whether you are no one or someone is just poor storytelling.  

And, um didn't the person Arya talks to and convinces drink the water last year, just die, no sacrifice for a FM task, just came, was sick, Arya told her some lies, she drank the water and died.

The show is inconsistent.  I understand that most people do not care, but not caring or calling it a nitpick is one thing, inventing rationales that are not present and even are contradicted by what IS in the show is something else.

 

[Lady Fevre Dream]

3 hours ago, dbunting said:

No, she is hit until she stops lying. When asked who she is and she says no one and she doesn't get hit, that means she believes it, and that is the point of the training. To me and some friends who watch but haven't read the books, it was pretty clear.

 

These comments and your attitude inferred from them makes it clear that you have more issues than the training.

 

Well, if she was getting beaten because she lied, then it must mean she was telling the truth when she said she was no one. Also, when drinking the water, she was told very clearly that if she was no one then she had nothing to fear from it, if she was someone she would die, she drank, she did not die, so she must be no one.

 

Can she later change her mind, obviously.

It is possible for people to have a variety of issues with a scene, a story line, or the show in general, and STILL be able to say, independently, a particular something, or nothing from No One, makes absolutely NO SENSE!!  Truly, Nothing is just........nothing, regardless of Arya, NotActingWaifish, Bathrobe Tom, and NO ONE.  

[Vastet]

"How do you know they were someone? So, only if you are someone and come to die, you die, but if you're beaten down by life and feel like no one, the water won't kill you?"

How do you know they weren't? Arya has been beaten down more than anyone in the show except perhaps Theon. And even Theon isn't noone. He's (was) Reek. You are really streching.

[Darksky]

3 hours ago, dbunting said:

You are not making any sense. We saw people drink the water and die...because they were someone, not  no one. They were sacrificing themselves to the many faced god to pay for a FM to do a task. Jaqen clearly said that if she was no one then she had nothing to fear from the water, that kind of thing is how fantasy books and shows work.

Those on a hate crusade will hate no matter what. But that reflects badly on them. Most of the rants are superficial, hypocritical and carry no weight. Even the most obvious of things get questioned. Even the ones flat out explained in the show. Seems like the show is still not simplified enough for some.

No problem with dragons, warging, resurrection and zombies, but a water drinking scene (explained when it hapoens) is problematic. Just LOL.

[Masha]

3 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

 

The drinking of the water was, ah, I hate to say it again, but stupid and geared to people who don't care about plot.

We already saw people drink the water and die.  Were they no one, too?  How exactly does this magic water work that knows what you think so you will die or not die based on what is in your own mind? Oh right, fantasy, dragons and shit so no rules need exist.  

That was just another of the show's cheap thrills where they want the audience, the small part who remembers the water is poison to go OMG poison water!!!! Oh, relief!!! The rest of the audience doesn't care what is happening...she's being beaten, now she has her eyes back, thank god, maybe something will happen.

Quite frankly, people on this forum spend a lot more time finding meaning and logic behind the show than the writers do, I am certain of that.

Umm, you are aware that sometimes an antidote to one poison is another poison - in real life? If you take each one separately - you will get sick or die, but one negates the other

So, if you just assume, that Arya lost her eyesight from specific slow-moving poison that was in the face that she wore, then the poison water in the well is an antidote to that specific poison. No magic or "something in your mind" just enough faith and trust to actually drink from a cup that she KNOWS contains the poison

 

 

 

 

[Cas Stark]

10 minutes ago, Vastet said:

"How do you know they were someone? So, only if you are someone and come to die, you die, but if you're beaten down by life and feel like no one, the water won't kill you?"

How do you know they weren't? Arya has been beaten down more than anyone in the show except perhaps Theon. And even Theon isn't noone. He's (was) Reek. You are really streching.

No, what is "stretching" is Arya giving the water to someone last year, who dies.  And other people who drink the water, shown dead.  And then Arya being given the same water and now it will be poison or not depending on if she is no one.  That's not even a plot hole or a continuity error, that is the show simply not caring and knowing their audience won't care either.

It's also a stretch to interpret her being beaten when she lies as the training to turn her into no one.  All of these excuses are just silly.

 

[Vastet]

That isn't a strech by any measure of the word. For one thing, for all we know the poison water was the cure to her blindness, and only drinking the water when not afflicted by whatever was done to her will kill you. You're making a mess of assumptions to justify a ridiculous argument.

Edit:

Also, I'm not referring to her training as beating her down. I'm referring to her losing her family piece by piece, being captured on multiple occasions, and generally speaking having more shit happen to her than anyone else.

[Cas Stark]

22 minutes ago, Masha said:

 

 

 

I'm not making assumptions.  What I'm doing is refusing to make assumptions and relying on what is in the show to explain things.

[Vastet]

You very much are making assumptions. You're assuming no magic allowed, you're assuming H'Gar is telling the truth, you're assuming there's no counteragent that can make the water safe, you're assuming a whole crapload of things.

It is true that in order to counter your assumptions we must also make assumptions, but you are most certainly making assumptions.

[Pixnik]

If Arya is truly No One then her praying in front of a Weirwood face is a coincidence? I think that right there shows after all the beatings she hasn't forgot who she is but is a better liar now because of beatings.. that is getting old and hope they move on from that.   

[Cas Stark]

10 minutes ago, Vastet said:

You very much are making assumptions. You're assuming no magic allowed, you're assuming H'Gar is telling the truth, you're assuming there's no counteragent that can make the water safe, you're assuming a whole crapload of things.

It is true that in order to counter your assumptions we must also make assumptions, but you are most certainly making assumptions.

No.  I'm not making any assumptions.  I make no assumptions about magic, but there is no magic shown, spoken of, or hinted at in the montage of her training or the last scene either in dialogue or tone or music. You can assume 'it must be magic because there is magic in the show' but that is the viewer connecting the dots instead of the story doing it organically.   I make no assumptions about a counter agent because there is no hint, direct or indirect that a counter agent is being used or even exists for the water.

Indeed, I do assume that Arya is not "no one" in her heart, and is speaking truth when she says 'no one' is wrong, because it's inconsistent with the determined Arya Stark we have seen for 6 years, who has never lost her identity.  And it would make no sense for her to really become no one for 5 minutes and then revert to Arya Stark, which we know she will, so again, if this is the show's intent, that now she really thinks she is no one honestly, it's again bad storytelling since it will be reversed ASAP.

Agree to disagree.

[linglingey]

9 hours ago, Tyrion's Littlefinger said:

I had read a theory, although now I can't recall which site, that when Arya says her brothers names the Waif strikes her in the same places that her brothers were struck. When she says Robb she is hit in the stomach.  When she says Bran she is hit in the back.  When she says Rickon she is hit in the leg.  I believe that the theorist was trying to say that this was a foreshadowing of how/where Rickon would be hurt.

I'm not sure if I'm buying into it, but figured it was something to throw out there to all you lovely people to see what you think. 

That theory is what made me question why she was being hit with the stick for saying her brothers names. Although, if this is correct; 

11 hours ago, Ludo Kressh said:

It was a training montage, the showrunners edited it that way for a dramatic effect. And the Waif was hitting her with a staff that they use for her assassin training, not the stick they use when they play the game of faces.

That pretty much sorts that theory out and my other questions.

I also don't think the show foreshadows the way the books do, so I wouldn't really buy into that theory either. 

[Vastet]

"No.  I'm not making any assumptions.  I make no assumptions about magic, but there is no magic shown, spoken of, or hinted at in the montage of her training or the last scene either in dialogue or tone or music. "

The whole faceless arc is steeped in magic, unless you assume you can just put on someone elses face in a moment, and that someone can wear ten odd faces without it being obvious (including the face of someone who's still got their face). In which case I'd suggest you try it yourself, if not for the legal issues involved.

We can agree to disagree on many things, but the FACT is that you are making assumptions. There can be no argument.

Edit:

Re: Arya's arc in general, I think she's learned to lie convincingly, and has figured out what the faceless want of her. I don't think she's noone either. If she was, why is Needle still under that rock? She is indeed still Arya Stark.

[The Chequered Raven]

On 13.5.2016 at 7:55 PM, Cas Stark said:

Quite frankly, people on this forum spend a lot more time finding meaning and logic behind the show than the writers do, I am certain of that.

This!

Can't agree more...

The whole Arya-Plot this Season ist up to now absolutely wastet screentime (well most of the other scenes are the same...) Think I stop watching the series if it does not become much better soon...

[Vastet]

In my opinion the haters spend so much time hating that they can't appreciate greatness. Bunch of sadomasochists. Please do stop watching. I'm tired of all the whining.

[Xcorpyo001]

48 minutes ago, Vastet said:

In my opinion the haters spend so much time hating that they can't appreciate greatness. Bunch of sadomasochists. Please do stop watching. I'm tired of all the whining.

See what you did there. I laughed. Hard.

[Vastet]

I'm quite certain I don't know what you're talking about.

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[Xcorpyo001]

29 minutes ago, Vastet said:

I'm quite certain I don't know what you're talking about.

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