Dany???

[BlackBethaRidesAgain]

19 hours ago, TickTak7 said:

I typically do as well - those scenes are normally the most complex, with tons of important meaning and often, foreshadowing / clues. 

The High Sparrow, especially. 

However, that scene with the High Sparrow / Margaery might have been one of the most boring scenes done on the show.

His origin story was a pure bore - cobbler who got bored of orgies? K.

 

 

That is one of the reasons I found the scene odd and unnecessary. 

I have no problem with dialogue-heavy scenes. That is why I loved reading ASoIaF and many other series, but the dialogue has to further the plot or character development in some way. Just creating a scene to have two characters interact does not always move things along or shed necessary information. Jonathan Price and Natalie Dormer acted their faces off in these scenes (truly fantastic actors on this show, no argument there), but even superb acting can't cover up that many of the dialogue scenes in the show are repetitive now. This scene was a longer version of when the High Sparrow spoke to Marg in her cell. 

[TickTak7]

1 hour ago, BlackBethaRidesAgain said:

That is one of the reasons I found the scene odd and unnecessary. 

I have no problem with dialogue-heavy scenes. That is why I loved reading ASoIaF and many other series, but the dialogue has to further the plot or character development in some way. Just creating a scene to have two characters interact does not always move things along or shed necessary information. Jonathan Price and Natalie Dormer acted their faces off in these scenes (truly fantastic actors on this show, no argument there), but even superb acting can't cover up that many of the dialogue scenes in the show are repetitive now. This scene was a longer version of when the High Sparrow spoke to Marg in her cell. 

Agreed.

That's not to say that the dialogue-heavy scenes arent occasionally still excellent.

But the High Sparrow origin story was just an absolute bore.

It's the one High Sparrow scene that I've just not cared for.

 

[Elaena Targaryen]

5 hours ago, WingedShadow said:

That was referring to the scrapes she got from the rocks, a friction burn(rug burn)

I guess that's a matter of perspective but I believe book!Dany's hands were already burnt and the rocks aggravated her tender skin. I'll quote the full paragraph from the very beginning of her last chapter in Dance so I can explain why I think so. (Btw sorry if this is OT we can go to the book forum if you want)

Quote

It took Dany half the morning to climb down. By the time she reached the bottom she was winded. Her muscles ached, and she felt as if she had the beginnings of a fever. The rocks had scraped her hands raw. They are better than they were, though, she decided as she picked at a broken blister. Her skin was pink and tender, and a pale milky fluid was leaking from her cracked palms, but her burns were healing.

Dany thinks the rocks scraped her hands raw but emphasizes they are better than they were while picking a blister and goes on to think how her burns are healing. So I can't see how her hands "are better" and "her burns healing" by the time she reached the bottom, they should be at their worst if it's just tenderness from the rocks. Why did the author choose the word "burns"? And I'll quote were I think book!Dany burnt her hands at the very end of the previous chapter.

Quote

Daenerys Targaryen vaulted onto the dragon’s back, seized the spear, and ripped it out. The point was half-melted, the iron red-hot, glowing. She flung it aside.

But this is just my opinion and there are several threads in the book section that discuss this better than me. Like this one http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/62101-a-public-service-announcement-the-targaryens-lack-of-immunity-to-fire/ I do think it's possible there might be some heat tolerance going on.

And just to clarify I have no problem that show!Dany is immune to fire (since it's been established) even though I don't believe book!Dany is. I'm curious what the show will do with it beyond this episode since I assumed she was when I first read the books until I saw all the evidence to the contrary. I want to know what purpose it can serve beyond this.

It just made sense that Dany would need to be fireproof if she was going to be a dragonrider but after what GRRM said, no quotes from the books aside from the dragons being born (except the pit scene in Dance made it questionable/arguable again), and reading the two stories about the first Dance of Dragons pretty much convinced me. None of the dragonriders we've seen or heard of have been immune to fire, heck even the dragons themselves are not immune.

So the only way I can see that book!Dany is special and is the only one to be immune to fire is if she is AA. If there will be a AA figure Dany is the most likely candidate but I have to wonder how being fireproof helps her, what purpose does it serve? To fight the WW's? Shouldn't she be immune to the cold instead since it's not likely the WW's plan on setting her on fire? The WW's are the ones that need fire immunity and that's why I'm curious what they plan in the show since we have seen fire shrink back from a WW at Hardhome. How does being fireproof help show!Dany? Stay tuned

 

[RoamingRonin]

22 hours ago, Ruhail said:

Oh boy this made me roll my eyes so hard. This was yet another case of D&D over placating to and for a charafter that they clearly like just as in the case of Ramsay. So, show Daenerys learns nothing shes the same smug arrogant pyromaniac tyrant she was when she was captured. Yet again she gets her way and nothing of consequence or logic  fits as its thrown out like Ramsay for "badassery." Id be able to go easier on this scene if i knew that there was going to be a real challenge and adversary in her way instead of what i assume will be her strolling into KL effortlessly taking the IT and people worship her. 

She was captured by smug arrogant men. She asked to go home. She promised them rewards if they escorted her to Meereen but they didn't. Instead, they threatened her with rape and murder. Why should she humble herself in front of such people? 

Why should she face consequences and not the idiots who had no idea who they were messing with? She told them she was the mother of dragons and the unburnt. They laughed. They laughed at her multiple times. That's their fault... not hers. 

[CrypticWeirwood]

On May 17, 2016 at 11:58 AM, Rupert Honeybun said:

Danny isn't a sorcerer, the only magical element here is her fireproof qualities (which are incidentally made up in the show).

Not true.  From the author's lips himself, in Dany’s viewpoint from Dance:

The fire burned away my hair, but elsewise it did not touch me. It had been the same in Daznak’s Pit. That much she could recall, though much of what followed was a haze.

Ser Barristan saw her hair burning. Yet as Dany herself notes, her flesh was untouched.  It then started growing in again, which could not have happened with a burnt scalp.

The dramatic effect of Danaerys walking unburnt out of Drogo’s pyre after the birth of dragons was only the most stunning demonstration of whatever it is we're talking about here.  But it is not the only one that Martin wrote about.  He's simply being subtle not bashing you over the head with it in the other places.

Flame resistance, fireproofing, pyrokinesis, sorcery, witchcraft, divine intervention: call it what you will, it’s clearly from the books, not just something that the show writers invented out of the blue red.

Perhaps key to this is Dany’s belief in herself in this regard, something that the experience in Daznak’s Pit will have strengthened.  We do not know exactly what happened there, and to some extent, we may never know it, because that’s how Martin likes to work.

[MostlyMoody]

3 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

Not true.  From the author's lips himself, in Dany’s viewpoint from Dance:

The fire burned away my hair, but elsewise it did not touch me. It had been the same in Daznak’s Pit. That much she could recall, though much of what followed was a haze.

Ser Barristan saw her hair burning. Yet as Dany herself notes, her flesh was untouched.  It then started growing in again, which could not have happened with a burnt scalp.

The dramatic effect of Danaerys walking unburnt out of Drogo’s pyre after the birth of dragons was only the most stunning demonstration of whatever it is we're talking about here.  But it is not the only one that Martin wrote about.  He's simply being subtle not bashing you over the head with it in the other places.

Flame resistance, fireproofing, pyrokinesis, sorcery, witchcraft, divine intervention: call it what you will, it’s clearly from the books, not just something that the show writers invented out of the blue red.

Perhaps key to this is Dany’s belief in herself in this regard, something that the experience in Daznak’s Pit will have strengthened.  We do not know exactly what happened there, and to some extent, we may never know it, because that’s how Martin likes to work.

Granny: Do Targaryens become immune to fire once they "bond" to their dragons?

George_RR_Martin: Granny, thanks for asking that. It gives me a chance to clear up a common misconception. TARGARYENS ARE NOT IMMUNE TO FIRE! The birth of Dany's dragons was unique, magical, wonderous, a miracle. She is called The Unburnt because she walked into the flames and lived. But her brother sure as hell wasn't immune to that molten gold.

Revanshe: So she won't be able to do it again?

George_RR_Martin: Probably not.

There was nothing magical about Danny pushing around braziers to kill the Khals. Also in the books as she rides Drogon after the pit her hands are burned from touching his scales.

Honestly her not burning is the least of the problems with the scene. Khals pouting while she struts around and insults them, after what she takes her sweet time to push around the braziers while the Khals proceed to panic like babies who've never seen fire. Painfully obvious plot armor as the beams fall around her crushing everything but herself. The Dothraki bowing down to what they would obviously perceive as a witch, despite the fact that they almost exclusively despise sorcery.

I understand why it is the way it is. They probably didn't have enough money to put in the CGI dragon into the scene, but that doesn't excuse the lazy writing.

[CrypticWeirwood]

2 minutes ago, Rupert Honeybun said:

Granny: Do Targaryens become immune to fire once they "bond" to their dragons?

George_RR_Martin: Granny, thanks for asking that. It gives me a chance to clear up a common misconception. TARGARYENS ARE NOT IMMUNE TO FIRE! The birth of Dany's dragons was unique, magical, wonderous, a miracle. She is called The Unburnt because she walked into the flames and lived. But her brother sure as hell wasn't immune to that molten gold.

Revanshe: So she won't be able to do it again?

George_RR_Martin: Probably not.

There was nothing magical about Danny pushing around braziers to kill the Khals. Also in the books as she rides Drogon after the pit her hands are burned from touching his scales.

Honestly her not burning is the least of the problems with the scene. Khals pouting while she struts around and insults them, after what she takes her sweet time to push around the braziers while the Khals proceed to panic like babies who've never seen fire. Painfully obvious plot armor as the beams fall around her crushing everything but herself. The Dothraki bowing down to what they would obviously perceive as a witch, despite the fact that they almost exclusively despise sorcery.

I understand why it is the way it is. They probably didn't have enough money to put in the CGI dragon into the scene, but that doesn't excuse the lazy writing.

Note the "probably" above.

Martin further said:

Lastly, some fans are reading too much into the scene in Games of Thrones where the dragons are born — which is to say, it was never the case that all Targaryens are immune to all fire at all times.

That's all he said.  Nothing we have seen contradicts that in any way whatsoever.  Instead of repeating your opinion about this again and again, and then again, I recommend that you wait and see.  The stridency is unbecoming.

Continually repeating the already disproven myth about money and CGI here is pointless.  They've already spent the money. They bought the dragon, if you like.  The rest is popcorn money.

[MostlyMoody]

1 minute ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

Note the "probably" above.

Martin further said:

Lastly, some fans are reading too much into the scene in Games of Thrones where the dragons are born — which is to say, it was never the case that all Targaryens are immune to all fire at all times.

That's all he said.  Nothing we have seen contradicts that in any way whatsoever.  Instead of repeating your opinion about this again and again, and then again, I recommend that you wait and see.  The stridency is unbecoming.

Continually repeating the already disproven myth about money and CGI here is pointless.  They've already spent the money. They bought the dragon, if you like.  The rest is popcorn money.

"The birth of Dany's dragons was unique, magical, wonderous, a miracle."

That was the focus of that quote to me at least. There was a good reason for that scene, there was purpose, it felt right. 

I have to repeat myself because people keep responding with a focus on fire, ignoring everything else I mention. 

The myth of what? That they have a limited budget? That is what I suggest. If you have proof they have virtually unlimited money, go ahead. No shit they spent the money. Somewhere along the line of producing the season they decided that they will not have a dragon in the scene, which would have greatly benefited the scene and made narrative sense, as opposed to what we got.

[Amis Targaryen]

On Monday, May 16, 2016 at 9:22 AM, The Little Sister said:

So Dany controls fire now.... seems like maybe she should have been using this power all along.  Could have saved a lot of time and problems.   Honestly, this was ridiculous.  I thought it was going to end up a crappy out where Drogon appeared out of nowhere again but this was so, so much worse.

Let's burn westeros

 

On Monday, May 16, 2016 at 9:22 AM, The Little Sister said:

So Dany controls fire now.... seems like maybe she should have been using this power all along.  Could have saved a lot of time and problems.   Honestly, this was ridiculous.  I thought it was going to end up a crappy out where Drogon appeared out of nowhere again but this was so, so much worse.

Let's burn westeros

[Jack Bauer 24]

On 5/16/2016 at 10:22 PM, The Little Sister said:

So Dany controls fire now.... seems like maybe she should have been using this power all along.  Could have saved a lot of time and problems.   Honestly, this was ridiculous.  I thought it was going to end up a crappy out where Drogon appeared out of nowhere again but this was so, so much worse.

Is there a reason why you are not understanding this? 

[ShadowKitteh]

On May 16, 2016 at 10:24 AM, Brave Ser Robin said:

Daenerys is Dothraki.  She understands the culture.  What is the best thing in life for a Dothraki?  Remember, it's not seeing a woman naked - it is killing a Khal and taking his Khalisar.  She understood the opportunity presented by having all the Khals in one place - unarmed mind you - and knows how power works in that culture.  She did not need to run. 

In order to lead a Dothraki army, she needed to TAKE power - not be saved by man or dragon.

This is, without question IMO, the absolute best way the writers could move her character in the direction needed.

THIS! It's really the only way, and won't surprise me at all if it didn't come straight from George, and so many of you need to go back and reread ADWD - Dany is mostly fireproof per GRRM - In Daznak's Pit: from this wiki:

Quote

Daenerys, seeing her "child" in peril, runs to him just when Drogon kills Harghaz. After much difficulty, losing her hair and clothing after he bathes her in dragonefire, Daenerys manages to use a whip to berate and mount Drogon, then fly away on his back.

Drogon takes Dany to his lair in Dragonstone in the Dothraki sea. Later, just after Drogon has killed and devoured a horse on the plains, he and Daenerys are discovered by the khalasar of Khal Jhaqo.

So, just like Drogo's pyre, she loses her hair and clothing to the flames, but she is fine. So, yeah. Fireproof. That's all George. But feel free to blame D&D, since it makes so many of you feel better.

And how else will GRRM get her out of this Mereneese knotted pitch-sized bedspread? Dany is the plot that engulfed the world. Khal Jhago finds her, and a wounded(?), full, Drogon, who needs a power nap. Maybe they leave him for dead? Maybe he flies away without her? 

In any event, Dany will get the entire Khalasar. Either they'll all drop to their knees immediately, because - DRAGON > HORSES, and they do that across the entire grass sea, until she's the Essos Mance Rayder, (Euron's navy should have arrived by then), or it happens in Vaes Dothrak, where everyone is, and happens like it just did in the show (best for time, and not getting dragged to even more new plot lines....)

Also - how did so many people miss the shot of the door handles barred on the outside by a piece of branch with two bodies in front of it, then Jorah & Daario peeking around the corner from their hiding place? Or did you see it and not understand that meant Jorah and Daario killed the two door slaves, and barred the door?

And - how do so many people not understand brazier technology and thermodynamics? The oil is in the braziers. Lots of it. It's why they burn so long. No need to pre-douse the room. Just knock them over. Gravity and heat will do the rest. Heat itself pushes air, and the oil. It's why fires on the floor move up walls so fast. Heat rises.

It was a brilliant scene. And that music.......... ❤³

[koststerg]

George's magic is rare, uncontrolled and there is always a cruel price to pay for that which is given to you.

The magic we saw in the show is  consistent with what we have seen in the show. It's OK to watch it in the screen but I personally prefer George's type of magic.

[adiman83]

1 hour ago, ShadowKitteh said:

And - how do so many people not understand brazier technology and thermodynamics? The oil is in the braziers. Lots of it. It's why they burn so long. No need to pre-douse the room. Just knock them over. Gravity and heat will do the rest. Heat itself pushes air, and the oil. It's why fires on the floor move up walls so fast. Heat rises.

It was a brilliant scene. And that music.......... ❤³

If you look carefully, you can see the oil splattering when she overturns the first brazier.

But they could've doused the room before. I assume the oil they burn is made of animal fat. So they could've doused the room with grease in key places, to help the fire spread, like the pillars for example. It's jsut a thought.

[FacelessManOf TheShire]

1 hour ago, ShadowKitteh said:

And - how do so many people not understand brazier technology and thermodynamics? The oil is in the braziers. Lots of it. It's why they burn so long. No need to pre-douse the room. Just knock them over. Gravity and heat will do the rest. Heat itself pushes air, and the oil. It's why fires on the floor move up walls so fast. Heat rises.

This just needs to be repeated as many times as possible, as people are still not getting it. I thought this was the most simple part of the whole thing to grasp.

[ShadowKitteh]

10 hours ago, adiman83 said:

If you look carefully, you can see the oil splattering when she overturns the first brazier.

But they could've doused the room before. I assume the oil they burn is made of animal fat. So they could've doused the room with grease in key places, to help the fire spread, like the pillars for example. It's jsut a thought.

No need to, when there's enough oil in the room already. You can see 8 braziers at the top of the scene. She only turns over three of them.

10 hours ago, FacelessManOf TheShire said:

This just needs to be repeated as many times as possible, as people are still not getting it. I thought this was the most simple part of the whole thing to grasp.

Agreed. Thanks.

[Jack Bauer 24]

8 hours ago, FacelessManOf TheShire said:

This just needs to be repeated as many times as possible, as people are still not getting it. I thought this was the most simple part of the whole thing to grasp.

I'm shocked people don't understand a lot of basic things.

[watcher of the night]

Ok, guys and girls meet brazier technology:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazier

Braziers were used to burn solid fuel like charcoal, wood or horsedung but not oil.

 

[Elaena Targaryen]

12 hours ago, ShadowKitteh said:

THIS! It's really the only way, and won't surprise me at all if it didn't come straight from George, and so many of you need to go back and reread ADWD - Dany is mostly fireproof per GRRM - In Daznak's Pit: from this wiki:

Quote

 

Daenerys, seeing her "child" in peril, runs to him just when Drogon kills Harghaz. After much difficulty, losing her hair and clothing after he bathes her in dragonefire, Daenerys manages to use a whip to berate and mount Drogon, then fly away on his back.

 

So, just like Drogo's pyre, she loses her hair and clothing to the flames, but she is fine. So, yeah. Fireproof. That's all George. But feel free to blame D&D, since it makes so many of you feel better.

I have no problem with Dany being fireproof in the show but for the books that wiki entry is wrong and should be corrected. This is Daenerys clothing inventory after the pit so it's impossible that "Drogon bathed her in dragonfire."

Quote

  The sun was hot this morning, the sky blue and cloudless. That was good. Dany’s clothes were hardly more than rags, and offered little in the way of warmth. One of her sandals had slipped off during her wild flight from Meereen and she had left the other up by Drogon’s cave, preferring to go barefoot rather than half-shod. Her tokar and veils she had abandoned in the pit, and her linen undertunic had never been made to withstand the hot days and cold nights of the Dothraki sea. Sweat and grass and dirt had stained it, and Dany had torn a strip off the hem to make a bandage for her shin. I must look a ragged thing, and starved, she thought, but if the days stay warm, I will not freeze.

I think in the books Dany, and some other Targaryens, may have some type of heat tolerance but not fire immunity. Since some things may be a matter of perspective and some see it as arguable these are quotes from the pit.

Quote

Drogon roared full in her face, his breath hot enough to blister skin.

Quote

With a hisssssss, he spat black fire down at her. Dany darted underneath the flames, swinging the whip and shouting

I think the second quote is likely when her hair burned. She even thinks this.

Quote

The fire burned away my hair, but elsewise it did not touch me.

Then I think this is how Dany burned her hands. "Her skin was pink and tender, and a pale milky fluid was leaking from her cracked palms, but her burns were healing."

Quote

Daenerys Targaryen vaulted onto the dragon’s back, seized the spear, and ripped it out. The point was half-melted, the iron red-hot, glowing. She flung it aside.

[adiman83]

34 minutes ago, watcher of the night said:

Ok, guys and girls meet brazier technology:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazier

Braziers were used to burn solid fuel like charcoal, wood or horsedung but not oil.

 

And the ones we're talking about here used liquid fuel. Did you see any coal in them?

[watcher of the night]

24 minutes ago, adiman83 said:

And the ones we're talking about here used liquid fuel. Did you see any coal in them?

Did you see oil or liqued fuel in them? Braziers are not used with liquid fuel for good reasons. Look up youtube videos when people ignite large quantity of liquid fuel, I am sure you can guess what happens next.