Frey civil war

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Just now, Ser Something said:

Yes Walton Frey is an interesting big question mark. How do you know he has attractive children? Is it just because they are apparently known as 'Steffon The Sweet' and 'Fair Walda'? Oh, and 'Bryan'.

Pretty much.

Cat mentions her attractiveness

Robb was seated between Alyx Frey and Fair Walda, two of the more nubile Frey maidens.

She is seen to be then most attractive by other Freys

"Everyone thought my lord would choose Fair Walda," Lady Walda Bolton told Ser Wendel

And even Jaime recognizes her by her name.

I wed the Lady Walda Frey whilst I was at the Twins."

"Fair Walda?" Awkwardly, Jaime tried to hold the bread with his stump while tearing it with his left hand."Fat Walda. My lord of Frey offered me my bride's weight in silver for a dowry

 

I'm guessing the Hardyng genes are quite good.

 

[CJ McLannister]

The Frey succession is brought up often enough that it has to come to something.  The problem is that old Walder just seems like the kind of person who will hang on for way longer than anyone thinks.  Walder's greatest pride is in his over-sized family.  Therefore, he has to see it fall apart before he dies.

To me, the question isn't whether the Freys will fight each other, but who will be on which side, and what external forces will be pushing them.  While an all-out Frey extinction might be unlikely, they are certain to see their numbers dwindle quickly.

 

[Eden-Mackenzie]

 

4 minutes ago, CJ McLannister said:

The Frey succession is brought up often enough that it has to come to something.  The problem is that old Walder just seems like the kind of person who will hang on for way longer than anyone thinks.  Walder's greatest pride is in his over-sized family.  Therefore, he has to see it fall apart before he dies.

To me, the question isn't whether the Freys will fight each other, but who will be on which side, and what external forces will be pushing them.  While an all-out Frey extinction might be unlikely, they are certain to see their numbers dwindle quickly.

 

I agree, especially the bolded parts. Walder watching his family crumble will mirror Catelyn being forced to watch helplessly as her (believed to be) last free, living child died. The forces in the North will not fair well, the Manderly and Umber forces will see to that. I do find it interesting the Wull (I believe) specifically mention killing Boltons, but not Freys, although I suppose it could be lack of familiarity with non-Northern houses (or overfamiliarity with Roose). 

The forces in the Riverlands will continue to face attacks from Lady Stoneheart, the Blackfish, Nymeria's wolfpack, as well as lack of cooperation/low-level rebellion from houses such as Blackwood, Mallister, Vance, and Piper. It seems likely there will be an attack at the Lannister-Frey wedding, and Freys, and Lannister-Freys at that, holding Riverrun will be as well-received as Boltons holding Winterfell. 

[joluoto2]

The Freys won't all die, there are so many of them. However with the Northerners killing Freys as well as UnCat several will die, and with Freys killing each other (Black Walder, lame Lothar and Bastard Walder will all ruthlessly start to clean house, when Walder kicks the bucket it will get ugly) their number will be greatly diminished.

[the trees have eyes]

On 29/05/2016 at 6:35 PM, Free Northman Reborn said:

I don't believe every last Frey will be wiped out. But the Twins will, and I think Rosslyn (and Edmure) will die too, for plot reasons, to open Riverrun up to a Stark heir.

But the Freys as a House will end. The plenty Frey descendants that remain, will become like those members of the Golden Company or Windblown etc. who reminisce over lost lands and titles. But they will not rule the Twins anymore. That part of their history will end.

Poor Edmure.  You mean one of Catelyn's children will inherit and assume the Tully name presumably rather than we see some Riverstarks to go with the Karstarks?

[Chris Mormont]

Walder Frey and most of the Freys will be killed by Arya, look out for another helping of Weasel soup. 

She will soon return from Bravos and find Howland Reed and Nymeria and her pack.  Her first target will be the Freys and she will get revenge.  She knows poisons and she could not only slip into the castle but I suspect she will catch Lord Walder's eye, and as they dine in their hall where Rob was slain, the Freys will start dropping and she will stand behind Lord Frey and point out that the North remembers and she has wiped out his family and then slit his throat, or even more sadistic, she will cut off his balls and leave him there to suffer.

She will then free any prisoners left at the Twins, the Great John and others, join them up with the forces Rob dispatched to the Neck and travel north to capture the Dreadfort before going home to WF.

[The Wolves]

49 minutes ago, Chris Mormont said:

 

She will then free any prisoners left at the Twins, the Great John and others, join them up with the forces Rob dispatched to the Neck and travel north to capture the Dreadfort before going home to WF.

The Freys have no prisoners, the Lannisters took them all. 

Giving all their prisoners away is another reason the Freys are so fucking dumb. 

[DamonDanceForMe]

On 5/28/2016 at 6:19 PM, DarkSister1001 said:

Welcome!

I agree with @Free Northman Reborn.  I think the surprise attack will come from Nymeria and her pack.  I like the idea that the most fertile family in Westeros will get wiped out (hopefully). 

quesiton: other than the obvious revenge plot...what is the take away from an attack on the freys.

I mean, there are so many Frey's you could field a small battalion just with Heir's to the twins and their army isn't a weak one (even the one they keep garrisoned) so even if you kill walder and all the freys involved sooner or later a small stealth team will need to either sneak back out the way they came having got their revenge or get killed by the garrison at the twins.

If the former, that is great. Walder and his shitty kids have it coming. But, aside from that, strategically it means nothing as the twins will pass to his grandson's half brother etc etc etc and still the Frey's of the Crossing will hold the Twins. 

If they get attacked by stealth from Reed or by a wolf pack that doesn't escape afterwards, sooner or later the attackers will all be dead. This isn't a big army right? So then you have the same as in the first scenario except a whole lot of dead wolves or crannogmen.

The only way (outside of the revenge plot) for killing Walder Frey to have any meaning is if the Frey's are deposed from the crossing. While I think the cranogmen could sneak in and kill him I don't think they could sweep the castle...not if there was 1000 of them and if there was they wouldn't be able to sneak in. I am pretty sure that Nymeria and the wolves, no matter how fierce, are going to sweep the castle too. They may kill Walder and his next 10 heirs but that doesn't change anything.

Only by having a Tully or a Tully Bannermen sitting in Walder Frey's chair would any strategic difference be made and that isn't about to happen. In fact, if the wolves killed 90% of the people in the castle the most likely thing would be for the lannisters to take the twins unopposed and hold the crossing judging by their position.

 

Am I missing something? Not sarcasm, just curious.

[aryagonnakill#2]

12 minutes ago, The Wolves said:

The Freys have no prisoners, the Lannisters took them all. 

Giving all their prisoners away is another reason the Freys are so fucking dumb. 

Well, at this point we still haven't seen or heard of that actually happening.  It's just an order from Jaime who is now known to be missing.  It actually wouldn't make a lot of sense for us to have heard about Jaime being missing but not about the prisoners being transported to KL.

[The Wolves]

6 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

Well, at this point we still haven't seen or heard of that actually happening.  It's just an order from Jaime who is now known to be missing.  It actually wouldn't make a lot of sense for us to have heard about Jaime being missing but not about the prisoners being transported to KL.

We seen when they handed over Edmure and aJaime was telling a Lannister bannermen about escorting the prisoners to Casterly Rock and have 400 soldiers on them. 

[aryagonnakill#2]

1 minute ago, The Wolves said:

We seen when they handed over Edmure and aJaime was telling a Lannister bannermen about escorting the prisoners to Casterly Rock and have 400 soldiers on them. 

Edmure and Jeyne were already at Riverrun to be handed over though, the others like the Greatjon were at the Twins.

[CJ McLannister]

After the surrender of Riverrun Jaime demands that all the Frey prisoners be handed over, though it hasn't actually happened yet.  Besides Umber and Marq Piper, I'm not sure who's left at the Twins by that point.

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

6 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

Edmure and Jeyne were already at Riverrun to be handed over though, the others like the Greatjon were at the Twins.

 

“If you will pardon me for intruding on your grief,” he said, in a dry tone, “we have other matters to consider. When you return to the Twins, please inform Lord Walder that King Tommen requires all the captives you took at the Red Wedding.”

Ser Walder frowned. “These prisoners are valuable, ser.”

“His Grace would not ask for them if they were worthless.”

[Eli Stark]

It's always possible that some of the family orchestrates a Red Wedding level event on the rest of the family.  After the Red Wedding, there are few moral qualms that would hold them back. If I were to inherit the Twins, why would I need 100 relatives?  Kill off everybody but my line and now all the wealth generated by bridge and lands is mine.  I would just have to give some other holds and castles to a few cousins who helped to pull it off.

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

4 hours ago, Eli Stark said:

It's always possible that some of the family orchestrates a Red Wedding level event on the rest of the family.  After the Red Wedding, there are few moral qualms that would hold them back. If I were to inherit the Twins, why would I need 100 relatives?  Kill off everybody but my line and now all the wealth generated by bridge and lands is mine.  I would just have to give some other holds and castles to a few cousins who helped to pull it off.

Black Walder would be the main suspect to pull one of those.

actually Black Walder might have some parallels with Black Harren

i think, once LF betrayel is known, or Sansa kills him, Cersei might name BW as Lord Paramount of the Trident... until dany burns the twins to the ground, ending house frey (sort of the same way Aegon ended Black harrens line)