Maegor the misunderstood.

[Storm Knight]

I don't believe Maegor the first of his name was as cruel as history has made him out to be. I believe historical record has been corrupted and altered to show Maegor in extremely unfavorable light as part of a joint conspiracy by the faith and the citadel and the forces loyal to them. I don't particularly see the Targaryens in favorable light due to their arrogance, but I can see incredible bias in whatever sources we have about his reign. It seems that any Targaryen ruler who did not appease the Faith and the powers that be in Oldtown, has been portrayed in very unfavorable light. Maegor, Daeron the first, Aegon the fifth, while terrible rulers like Daeron the second (Blackfyre Rebellion, poor response to spring sickness), Viserys the first have always been praised. But getting back to Maegor, the reason why he is reviled by those in charge on history and higher learning is because he went against the status quo and tried to be a strong ruler all of which greatly upset the Faith and the powers in Oldtown. I do not see murdering relatives as particularly cruel or evil else Tywin would be considered the most evil. Also we do not know for certain that he killed his wives, it is possible and unfortunate that they all died natural deaths.

[Protagoras]

Beating up religious people only earn points in my book, but his treatment of his wives and of those working for him on the Red keep project earn penalties. His main problem is his inability to treat people fairly.

Maegor is not as bad as his reputation - sure, yet his tendancy to always go for brutality and cruelty is doing the complete opposite mistake that Aenys did. Aenys was too weak but Maegors strength had no will to cut deals in it. He didn´t want to offer his enemies anything and failed to make peace therefore (You simply can´t beat the whole world up by yourself). Rhaenyra do this exact mistake in the Dance too.

I would rank him below average on the king list. Not among the worst 5 kings in Westeros history, but maybe on top 10 worst.

[Storm Knight]

What evidence is there he was exceptionally cruel to his wives? If the rumors were indeed true no woman would take his hand in marriage.

[TheSovereignGrave]

How in the bloody hell can the Blackfyre Rebellion be considered Daeron's fault? If you're gonna pin the blame on anyone other than Daemon himself, then pin it on their father or the people egging him on to rebel. And what response to the Great Spring Sickness are talking about? Because as far as I know the only thing he did was get sick and die, which is hardly his fault.

[dariopatke]

11 minutes ago, TheSovereignGrave said:

How in the bloody hell can the Blackfyre Rebellion be considered Daeron's fault? If you're gonna pin the blame on anyone other than Daemon himself, then pin it on their father or the people egging him on to rebel. And what response to the Great Spring Sickness are talking about? Because as far as I know the only thing he did was get sick and die, which is hardly his fault.

Daemon? Not really. Blame it on people surrounding him who whispered in his ears, 100 times lie becomes truth. Also I would blame Aegon IV.

[Storm Knight]

Daeron the second's rule and competence has always been overrated in my opinion. Daeron had enough time to prepare for and prevent the Blackfyre Rebellion, but Bittersteel and Daemon probably felt slighted by him in some ways which led to bitterness that grew into a revolt. Dorne was also not happy under his rule since the Yronwoods sided with the Blackfyres. Not to mention handing power to the worst tyrant of them all, Bloodraven. Also King's landed was infiltrated by the Dornish and Maesters from the Citadel, all of which probably had consequences for years to come. But since he appeased all of these parties and was one good terms he is held in high regard in the history books.

[Protagoras]

19 minutes ago, Storm Knight said:

What evidence is there he was exceptionally cruel to his wives? If the rumors were indeed true no woman would take his hand in marriage.

Believe it or not, but some women (or their families) are willing to do just that in order to get power and influence.

And of course you won´t find any evidence if you discredit the evidence you find as "corrupted records". It is hard convincing someone who closes their eyes and refuses to see. Besides, its pretty hard to make up public executions on the spot without anyone calling you out on it if its wrong. This is not 1984, so if you state that say "Evil Maegor killed dozens of people in his throne room in front of dozens of nobles" and it is false, then sooner or later some of those nobles (or their relatives) will confront your lies. Indeed, the falsely accused king will have a personal interest for clearing his name.

Because if this is all lies, why isn´t there an alternative historical POW. It should be easy to get one right if the records are so faulty. Why aren´t bards singing songs about "Maegor the unfairly judged" or something?

[Storm Knight]

I think he had too may enemies. The Faith was ruthless back then and had an effective propaganda machine which the Maesters are a part of till today. Pretty sure he just had a personal vendetta against the faith. How did this whole thing start again? He wanted to take another wife or something right? Doesn't strike me as particularly cruel. Also he was passed over throughout his life in place of his older brother Aenys who he was so much more competent than. Also he didn't murder any civilians or common folk unlike Aemond from the Dance.

[TheSovereignGrave]

31 minutes ago, Storm Knight said:

Daeron the second's rule and competence has always been overrated in my opinion. Daeron had enough time to prepare for and prevent the Blackfyre Rebellion, but Bittersteel and Daemon probably felt slighted by him in some ways which led to bitterness that grew into a revolt. Dorne was also not happy under his rule since the Yronwoods sided with the Blackfyres. Not to mention handing power to the worst tyrant of them all, Bloodraven. Also King's landed was infiltrated by the Dornish and Maesters from the Citadel, all of which probably had consequences for years to come. But since he appeased all of these parties and was one good terms he is held in high regard in the history books.

...So the Great Bastards felt slighted by the King who did his best to keep up the incomes their father granted them, and even giving Daemon Blackfyre land along the Blackwater in order to build his own keep. That's their own fault; Daeron did what he could to keep things from escalating. The Yronwoods don't represent the Dornish as a whole; the fact that the other Dornish lords didn't join Daemon points to the opposite of what you're saying is true. I mean, what exactly did Daeron do wrong?

[purple-eyes]

2 hours ago, dariopatke said:

Daemon? Not really. Blame it on people surrounding him who whispered in his ears, 100 times lie becomes truth. Also I would blame Aegon IV.

come on, no matter how many people whisper, it is him who decided to rebel. 

no matter how many sales guys try to sell you something, it is you who decide to write the check. 

[Lion of the West]

4 hours ago, Storm Knight said:

I don't believe Maegor the first of his name was as cruel as history has made him out to be. I believe historical record has been corrupted and altered to show Maegor in extremely unfavorable light as part of a joint conspiracy by the faith and the citadel and the forces loyal to them. I don't particularly see the Targaryens in favorable light due to their arrogance, but I can see incredible bias in whatever sources we have about his reign. It seems that any Targaryen ruler who did not appease the Faith and the powers that be in Oldtown, has been portrayed in very unfavorable light. Maegor, Daeron the first, Aegon the fifth, while terrible rulers like Daeron the second (Blackfyre Rebellion, poor response to spring sickness), Viserys the first have always been praised. But getting back to Maegor, the reason why he is reviled by those in charge on history and higher learning is because he went against the status quo and tried to be a strong ruler all of which greatly upset the Faith and the powers in Oldtown. I do not see murdering relatives as particularly cruel or evil else Tywin would be considered the most evil. Also we do not know for certain that he killed his wives, it is possible and unfortunate that they all died natural deaths.

While I agree that Maegor has most likely taken a hit due to him being at bad relations with, well, about everyone and that Jaehaerys I has an interest in ensuring Maegor looks bad to ensure that he himself and his rebellion against Maegor looks better, I'm not willing to write off Maegor as just being the subject of slander.

For the first thing Maegor was a usurper, as could been seen already back then, and he was a kinslayer which doubles or triples the crime as far as I am concerned. And to that he was extremely cruel and would have brought the end to the Targaryen dynasty if Jaehaerys had not replaced him, despite Maegor being in possession of Baelorion the Black Dread. I don't think that if Maegor was just misunderstood and slandered after his life he would have managed to drive away his entire support base in a couple of years. Even Aerys II who provoked five (possible six with Dorne) Great Houses to turn on him managed to drive himself into that kind of pit.

Of course Maegor is misunderstood if you think the king can do whatever he likes ,like executing whoever he wants and generally fuck the laws of inheritance however he wants, and everyone should just accept it, but luckily Westeros is not that kind of place.

[Bright Ancalagon]

20 minutes ago, LionoftheWest said:

While I agree that Maegor has most likely taken a hit due to him being at bad relations with, well, about everyone and that Jaehaerys I has an interest in ensuring Maegor looks bad to ensure that he himself and his rebellion against Maegor looks better, I'm not willing to write off Maegor as just being the subject of slander.

For the first thing Maegor was a usurper, as could been seen already back then, and he was a kinslayer which doubles or triples the crime as far as I am concerned. And to that he was extremely cruel and would have brought the end to the Targaryen dynasty if Jaehaerys had not replaced him, despite Maegor being in possession of Baelorion the Black Dread. I don't think that if Maegor was just misunderstood and slandered after his life he would have managed to drive away his entire support base in a couple of years. Even Aerys II who provoked five (possible six with Dorne) Great Houses to turn on him managed to drive himself into that kind of pit.

Of course Maegor is misunderstood if you think the king can do whatever he likes ,like executing whoever he wants and generally fuck the laws of inheritance however he wants, and everyone should just accept it, but luckily Westeros is not that kind of place.

Maegor is ruthless. But so is Tywin. Besides that as far as we know, Maegor never raped anybody.

[Winter's Breath]

didn't Maegor also get killed by the iron Throne? not that this means very much, but it could be a signal that GRMM wrote hime to be evil and cruel. 

[dariopatke]

3 hours ago, purple-eyes said:

come on, no matter how many people whisper, it is him who decided to rebel. 

no matter how many sales guys try to sell you something, it is you who decide to write the check. 

Well yes, but only after years of whispering. It can really change people. See Ramsay-Reek I relationship, one of them pushed the other beyond any redemption.

[Lion of the West]

2 hours ago, Bright Ancalagon said:

Maegor is ruthless. But so is Tywin. Besides that as far as we know, Maegor never raped anybody.

Tywin was ruthless but also knew how to actually win wars and end them, and as seen on the Blackwater and in the Riverlands after the Red Wedding, ensure that there was peace after the war, Maegor only ever managed to create two new enemies for every one he destroyed and so keep the war going and, from it seems, growing.

As for rape we don't know. Maybe all the wives Maegor took were thrilled at his attention or maybe they were not. We don't know and we're not allowed to discuss rape anyway so I can't give a proper answer to that part.

[Paxter Redwyne]

Maegor murdered two of his nephews, wiped out house harroway only because his wife gave him stillborn child, burned sept after he won trial by seven (he only started war again by doing this) and took wives of people he had murdered. There is no way that he was misunderstood, but i agree that viserys i and daeron ii are overrated. Viserys was highly incompetent. He was remembered fondly only because he was gregarious and generous. People forget that he was also lazy, stubborn and  quick to anger. Daeron II brought dorne peacefully through marriages and concessions, ignoring thousands of men who died during dornish conquest, even honoring dornishmen by giving them places in small council. He also broke his father promise to appoint fireball into kingsguard, preffering willem wylde from stormlands (probably to please stormlanders who for centuries fought dornish). But still Daeron II is one of the best kings in history of westeros, just not in same league as jaehaerys the conciliator. He fought with corruption and did not repeated his mistakes after blackfyre rebellion.

[Lord Varys]

We have no reason to believe Maegor's character was misconstrued because we don't have any sources painting him as a good guy. None at all.

Speculating about that is as pointless as considering the possibility that the Conqueror was actually a lackwit, Tytos Lannister a great lord, Aerys I actually a hermaphrodite, or Aegon the Unworthy a woman disguised as man.

[aryagonnakill#2]

13 hours ago, TheSovereignGrave said:

How in the bloody hell can the Blackfyre Rebellion be considered Daeron's fault? If you're gonna pin the blame on anyone other than Daemon himself, then pin it on their father or the people egging him on to rebel. And what response to the Great Spring Sickness are talking about? Because as far as I know the only thing he did was get sick and die, which is hardly his fault.

Daeron definitely made mistakes, while Fireball himself was a terrible person for what he did for his wife, Daeron was honor bound to give him the position his father promised and he did not, had he the rebellion never would have happened.  Also seems like he was kind of a dick with the whole marriage thing.

As to the spring sickness, aren't we told Oldtown shut itself off and thus was spared?  Any other city could have done the same.

[Lord Varys]

18 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

Daeron definitely made mistakes, while Fireball himself was a terrible person for what he did for his wife, Daeron was honor bound to give him the position his father promised and he did not, had he the rebellion never would have happened.  Also seems like he was kind of a dick with the whole marriage thing.

That is a bold assertion. Who told you that Fireball didn't loath Daeron II in any possible and scenario and would have worked to install Daemon Blackfyre as king from within the Kingsguard? He seems to be the kind of man who would have had nothing but disdain for a man like Daeron II.

More importantly, there is no indication that Daeron II was honor-bound to keep any promises his father had made.

@LionoftheWest

Both Maegor and Tywin won a bunch of wars and killed a lot of their enemies only to be cast down by their surviving enemies/family members. There is not much difference there. In fact, it might even be that Maegor's reign wasn't one huge war - after all, there seems to be a period of relative peace during the years Maegor completed the Red Keep (similar to the situation in AFfC when all the factions take their breath to butcher each other again on a grand scale).

And Maegor certainly ruled as much by right of conquest as by right of blood. Aenys I actually lost everything his parents and aunt had conquered when he fled back to Dragonstone. When Maegor returned from Pentos the Iron Throne was in the hands of the Faith Militant, and Maegor won it in a Trial of Seven. 

In a sense the man is as much a conqueror as his own father, and has thus not necessarily stolen the birthright of Aenys' children. The Faith would have killed them all had Maegor and Visenya not taken matters into their own hands.

History might have branded Maegor as a usurper had the man actually taken the throne from his nephew. But as things turned out Aenys I had already lost/abandoned the Iron Throne by the time he died, so one can easily make the point that Prince Aegon and his siblings no longer were princes or had the right to any thrones because their father no longer was a king. After all, the High Septon had proclaimed him a pretender and a tyrant.

[TheSovereignGrave]

10 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

Daeron definitely made mistakes, while Fireball himself was a terrible person for what he did for his wife, Daeron was honor bound to give him the position his father promised and he did not, had he the rebellion never would have happened.  Also seems like he was kind of a dick with the whole marriage thing.

As to the spring sickness, aren't we told Oldtown shut itself off and thus was spared?  Any other city could have done the same.

Even without Fireball whispering in his ear, there were still a number of other people who were telling Daemon Blackfyre to rebel. And what marriage thing? You mean marrying Daenerys off to the Prince of Dorne? I don't recall him being a dick about it; when you're royalty you can't always marry whom you want and it's not like he took Daenerys for his own. Not to mention Aegon IV was the one who arranged Daemon to wed Rohanne of Tyrosh in the first place, Daeron just went through with his father's promise on that.

And as for the Sickness, that was the Vale that shut off all access. Oldtown was hit pretty hard, as was Lannisport. I don't think we really know enough to say for certain on the matter. For all we know it could've broken out in King's Landing, and Daeron the Good could've died early on in the plague before he even got a chance to do anything.