How And When Did Trystane Get Back to Dorne?

[A spoon of knife and fork]

I haven't seen anyone talk about this letter, from Jaime to Doran about Myrcellas death.  This is the scroll that Doran reads right before getting stabbed to death.  

http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/production-diary/objects-from-dorne

Along with the eye-stones It all but confirms that Trystane is on a Dornish ship (the same one they traveled on from Dorne to KL), docked near KL, and soon to be heading back to Dorne.  He never makes landfall.

Presumably the message was sent via Raven so it arrived much more quickly than Trystanes body.  In any case, Ellaria had obviously already planned to kill Doran and Trystane by the time Jaimes warning arrived.  In fact it seems certain that she sent the two snakes to  follow Trystanes ship immediately at the end of S5 to kill him.  The plan was never just Myrcella but rather the coup.  Meanwhile, she'd take out Doran back home.  

 

[Lord Lannister]

13 hours ago, A spoon of knife and fork said:

I haven't seen anyone talk about this letter, from Jaime to Doran about Myrcellas death.  This is the scroll that Doran reads right before getting stabbed to death.  

http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/production-diary/objects-from-dorne

Along with the eye-stones It all but confirms that Trystane is on a Dornish ship (the same one they traveled on from Dorne to KL), docked near KL, and soon to be heading back to Dorne.  He never makes landfall.

Presumably the message was sent via Raven so it arrived much more quickly than Trystanes body.  In any case, Ellaria had obviously already planned to kill Doran and Trystane by the time Jaimes warning arrived.  In fact it seems certain that she sent the two snakes to  follow Trystanes ship immediately at the end of S5 to kill him.  The plan was never just Myrcella but rather the coup.  Meanwhile, she'd take out Doran back home.  

 

Nice tidbit there with the scroll. Just another layer of the overall decency Jaime has deep within him behind his "fear nothing, care for nothing" facade.

[NutBurz]

I think the letter might actually confirm that is the same ship Cersei had given Myrcella, since he refers to it as "in the same ship", and not "your ship". The Dornish sails could simply be an indication that such ship is carrying Dornish nobility.

It would be a plot hole if the ship Cersei sent Myrcella simply ceased to exist.

[A spoon of knife and fork]

53 minutes ago, NutBurz said:

I think the letter might actually confirm that is the same ship Cersei had given Myrcella, since he refers to it as "in the same ship", and not "your ship". The Dornish sails could simply be an indication that such ship is carrying Dornish nobility.

It would be a plot hole if the ship Cersei sent Myrcella simply ceased to exist.

Jaime is clearly saying it's the same ship they left Dorne in.  If it's a ship that belongs in KL, why would he send it back to Dorne?

And why would a ship stay in Dorne for three years after bringing Myrcella there?  I would assume the normal thing would be that it would go back to rejoin the Royal fleet not sit in harbor for years doing nothing...  

[NutBurz]

28 minutes ago, A spoon of knife and fork said:

Jaime is clearly saying it's the same ship they left Dorne in.  If it's a ship that belongs in KL, why would he send it back to Dorne?

And why would a ship stay in Dorne for three years after bringing Myrcella there?  I would assume the normal thing would be that it would go back to rejoin the Royal fleet not sit in harbor for years doing nothing...  

Cersei sends the ship to remain in Dorne for emergencies, that´s why Oberyn goes "we don´t hurt little children in dorne". What good does Myrcella having a ship in King´s Landing do?

The ship is in Dorne, they use it to send Myrcella, Jaime and Trystane back to King´s Landing (since that´s where Myrcella is supposed to be now) using Dornish sails, then Jaime plans to send it back as not to go through all the trouble of disembarking one ship just to hop on another. I don´t think Myrcella would miss it now. =/

[Cron]

Great comments and thoughts by everyone in this thread, I think.

To me, here's what these comments and the ongoing debate and discussion confirm:  This sequence of scenes was a mess in the show, failing to clearly explain what the heck was going on, and where, even though it could have been cleared up in ten to fifteen seconds, even if it only consisted of a few added lines spoken by Doran, reading from the letter/scroll, right before he was killed.

Instead, I believe, we are all left scratching our heads and having to devise theory after theory about what happened and why (some of which theories have to be fairly lengthy and detailed to connect all the dots), almost none of which theories can be definitively proven or disproven. (About the only thing that seems to have been cleared up for sure is the fact that Trystane was killed on a ship, a fact I admit that I missed the first time I saw it)

[NutBurz]

1 hour ago, Cron said:

This sequence of scenes was a mess in the show

I disagree.

My first impression of what happened was pretty much what I have always believed and and still do, and this nice letter simply confirmed it. There have been gaps of facts like this before and no one complained because they had "the script"(as in, the books) with every thought and a constant narration of events to back them up in these simple deduction.

 

Nothing we concluded here was extraordinary.

[Cron]

3 hours ago, NutBurz said:

I disagree.

My first impression of what happened was pretty much what I have always believed and and still do, and this nice letter simply confirmed it. There have been gaps of facts like this before and no one complained because they had "the script"(as in, the books) with every thought and a constant narration of events to back them up in these simple deduction.

 

Nothing we concluded here was extraordinary.

Nothing "we concluded"?

My friend, people here still seem to have some fairly strong differences of opinion about a variety of things, other than the fact that Trystane was killed on a ship.

Where exactly was the ship?  Different opinions, above.

Who owned the ship? Different opinions, above.

Exactly which ship was it? Different opinions, above.

Who manned the ship (Lannisters, Dornish, or some combination)?  Different opinions, above, and even the sails on the ship are not considered dispositive.

How did the Sand Snakes get on board and off again?  Not clear.

The only thing I believe is definitely resolved is that Trystane was killed on a ship.

That's all.

That's my understanding of it.

[Lord Lyman]

When did Cersie send Myrcella a ship? I don't remember that. I do remember Tyrion sending Myrcella to Dorne.

10 hours ago, Cron said:

Where exactly was the ship?  Different opinions, above.

I figured it was King's Landing as I thought the whole reason Trystane was there was to take up the Dorne seat on the small council.

[A spoon of knife and fork]

20 hours ago, NutBurz said:

Cersei sends the ship to remain in Dorne for emergencies, that´s why Oberyn goes "we don´t hurt little children in dorne". What good does Myrcella having a ship in King´s Landing do?

Who says it's Myrcella's ship?  The ship that sent Myrcella to Dorne belongs to the crown and its home port is King's Landing.  If a ship was being kept in Dorne "for emergencies" then surely the threat to her life sent to Cersei would qualify as one, and she'd simply be spirited away at night by whomever is in charge of that ship.  If this were the case, there'd have been no need to send Jaime to kidnap her / negotiate her release.  

Quote

The ship is in Dorne, they use it to send Myrcella, Jaime and Trystane back to King´s Landing (since that´s where Myrcella is supposed to be now) using Dornish sails, then Jaime plans to send it back as not to go through all the trouble of disembarking one ship just to hop on another. I don´t think Myrcella would miss it now. =/

I'm still not understanding why you think there is a ship belonging to the crown in Dorne.  I don't recall any mention of that - and without such a mention I'm going to assume the much less complicated scenario which is that Myrcella was simply dropped off in Dorne, which is why she's in need of rescue now.  

Also it's really convoluted to believe that the show runners would swap the sails on a ship and expect us to somehow deduce that's what happened.  A spade's a spade unless we have information contradicting that, which we don't.  

[NutBurz]

Season 4, episode 5, about 30 minutes in, Cersei and Oberyn are walking through the gardens then she asks him to bring Myrcella a gift, a ship because she loves open water. Oberyn says he´ll send it to Sunspear.

 

Cersei can´t simply send a raven to Dorne hoping no one but the captain will read it since what she wants to do is to break a diplomatic deal made by the crown.

[Cron]

5 hours ago, Lord Lyman said:

When did Cersie send Myrcella a ship? I don't remember that. I do remember Tyrion sending Myrcella to Dorne.

I figured it was King's Landing as I thought the whole reason Trystane was there was to take up the Dorne seat on the small council.

(1) In Season 4, the ship Cersei had made for Myrcella may have been mentioned more than once, but I am positive that in a scene with Cersei and Oberyn, they are walking along the shore, talking, and the ship can be seen out on the water.  As I recall, Cersei basically tells Oberyn that she had the ship made for Myrcella, and asks Oberyn to take it back to Dorne with him, and he agrees.  Oberyn is then killed by Gregor, of course, but it is inconceivable to me that that would stop Cersei from sending the ship to Dorne.  In my view, that ship was not some mere "gift," it was Cersei's way of providing Myrcella with a quick, emergency get-away transport away from Dorne if she needed it.  My very strong assumption has always been that the ship WAS sent, and is manned by Lannister men that both Cersei and Myrcella trust, not Dornish.

(2) It is possible it was King's Landing, I can't know for sure anyone is wrong on that.  In fact, that's my main point in this thread, that we can't be sure exactly WHAT happened or WHERE (other than the fact that Trystane was killed on a ship).  However, you mention that you thought the whole reason Trystane went to Dorne was to sit on the small council:  My thoughts:  Well, not quite.  That's part of the reason, but not all of the reason.  Trystane was supposed to marry Myrcella, but she died.  Once that happened, the whole picture changed, and it's easy for me to imagine the Dornish (possibly) saying "Uh, okay, the marriage is obviously off, and without that we no longer trust Lannisters to keep Trystane safe in King's Landing, so we'll be taking him back to Dorne now, thanks, BYE!"   (This, of course, assumes it was a Dornish ship manned by Dornish, which is, once again, not clear) 

[Dragon in the North]

39 minutes ago, Cron said:

(2) It is possible it was King's Landing, I can't know for sure anyone is wrong on that.  In fact, that's my main point in this thread, that we can't be sure exactly WHAT happened or WHERE (other than the fact that Trystane was killed on a ship).  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTkoh98D7C8

There, at 2:15, you see the ship outside of King's Landing. Combine that with Trystane painting the eyes for Myrcella's funeral and Tommen mentioning Trystane's death to Jaime, I think it's safe to say the ship was docked at King's Landing. Can we all put that particular debate to rest now?

[Cron]

8 hours ago, Dragon in the North said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTkoh98D7C8

There, at 2:15, you see the ship outside of King's Landing. Combine that with Trystane painting the eyes for Myrcella's funeral and Tommen mentioning Trystane's death to Jaime, I think it's safe to say the ship was docked at King's Landing. Can we all put that particular debate to rest now?

Okay, I now concede the ship was at King's Landing when Trystane died.

I did not click on your link (nothing personal to you, I just don't click on links on comment boards), but I DID review more scenes from Episode 601.   In a scene earlier than when Trystane is killed, when the ship with Jaime, Bronn and Myrcella is indisputably arriving at King's Landing (part of the scene is Cersei hurrying down to meet the ship), there is a series of exterior shots of the ship (I believe at least 3), one of which is almost identical to the exterior shot of the ship later on (in the scene when Trystane is killed).  In fact, it is so close to being identical that I have to concede it is the same land and buildings that we see right before Trystane is killed.

In my opinion, this single, brief exterior shot of the ship is a very narrow thread connecting these two scenes by location, but it is there.  Having said that, the amount of time and work it took to track this down and verify it should have been unnecessary, in my opinion.  As I've already basically mentioned above, a few words by Doran reading the letter with a little more detail about what happened would have been nice, I think.

Other questions in this thread remain outstanding, in my opinion, but two things now seem clear:  Trystane was killed on a ship, and that ship was at King's Landing at the time.

 

[A Ghost of Someone]

Do people actually think he made it back to Dorne? He was basically killed in the Blackwater bay as his ship was in ancor. He apparently on the show loved Myrcella and was making funeral eye stones for her when he was surprise by his telleporting bastard cousin Sandsnakes who cowardly stabbed him in the back.

[Cron]

44 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

Do people actually think he made it back to Dorne? He was basically killed in the Blackwater bay as his ship was in ancor. He apparently on the show loved Myrcella and was making funeral eye stones for her when he was surprise by his telleporting bastard cousin Sandsnakes who cowardly stabbed him in the back.

There are a number of things that have caused me to scratch my head and wonder about the end of Trystane. They are described at great length above (by me and others).

One of those things is the seemingly "teleporting" Sand Snakes you mention, but there are other issues, too, described in substantial length and detall by me and other people in this thread, above.

[A spoon of knife and fork]

On 8/19/2016 at 0:04 PM, NutBurz said:

Season 4, episode 5, about 30 minutes in, Cersei and Oberyn are walking through the gardens then she asks him to bring Myrcella a gift, a ship because she loves open water. Oberyn says he´ll send it to Sunspear.

 

Cersei can´t simply send a raven to Dorne hoping no one but the captain will read it since what she wants to do is to break a diplomatic deal made by the crown.

Interesting.  Thanks and I certainly missed that.  

I think it's still likely this is a dropped plot point (since it's been 1.5 years).  If they wanted us to believe it was the same ship, why not give it Baratheon or Baratheon-Lannister sails instead of Dornish ones?  And perhaps mentioned it at least once in Season 5, say during the conversation between Cersei and Jaime where he's planning to go.  Or Jaime and Bronn discussing how they have a getaway ship waiting for them (this would have the added benefit of making Jaime's plan look about 95% less... idiotically stupid).  

In any case, it probably doesn't matter too much whose ship it was.  Though if it was a Dornish ship, there's no need to explain how the sandsnakes got on board (whereas we have to read between the lines / assume trickery if it was a Royal one).  

 

[Jedi Renee]

There was a scene after Marcella and trystene died with tommen talking about the sand snakes being on kings landing and that no one had found them yet to punish them. Tystene was def on a boat in kings landing when he died.my guess as stated above is the sand snakes followed jamie and Co on another boat snuck on etc. The whole show is full of plot holes. Read the books for better storylines :^)