Craster's Black Blooded Curse (or WTF happened to Benjen)

[Darkstream]

 

54 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

And you are straight up lying about it fitting better if Jaime and Cersei pay the cats paw. That's rubbish because we hear time and time again that this not in their character as its explained in the books, if they wanted him dead, Jaime would have just killed him. 

You may have a point with Jaimie, but the profile still fits for Cercei.

54 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

And you are straight up lying

You really need to lay off with the ad hominem attacks, just because you disagree with someone else's interpretation, that does not give you the right to call someone a liar. I'm not even going to bother reading the rest of the comments I see you have just posted, as I'm tired of reading two or three comments in every one of your posts that are directed towards the op, and not the subject matter.

[Macgregor of the North]

3 minutes ago, Darkstream said:

 

You may have a point with Jaimie, but the profile still fits for Cercei.

You really need to lay off with the ad hominem attacks, just because you disagree with someone else's interpretation, that does not give you the right to call someone a liar. I'm not even going to bother reading the rest of the comments I see you have just posted, as I'm tired of reading two or three comments in every one of your posts that are directed towards the op, and not the subject matter.

Thanks. That leaves me more time to actually try to find the truth here with @sweetsunray

[sweetsunray]

15 minutes ago, Darkstream said:

"The Others are only a story, a tale to make children shiver. If they ever lived at all, they are gone eight thousand years. Even the thought made him feel foolish;"

So if the is the case, how would any of the rangers know if the wights used weapons, or anything about them at all? In fact, is that not one of the challenges that is facing the Watch in the books, and something that Jon was working towards remedying? The conclusion that Othor and Jaffer's injuries were caused by an axe would not give suspicion that the wights or Others were not responsible. You are attributing our knowledge as readers to the characters in the books, in thinking that Jon and the rangers wouldn't believe the wights were responsible, just because an axe was used.

Exactly! Jon's hunch and that of the others is with regards the wighting, which definitely and undeniably is caused by the Others. At the same time there is ample evidence that neither Jon nor the rest of the Night's Watch know what type of weapons they use, or that wights tends to use their hands and go for the throat or pulling someone's entrails out. At that time in the story, Jon and the rest of them standing there can think "The Others did this", while the wounds are axe wounds. We are certain at least one of them was killed by an axe. It does not perturb them into thinking "ooh, the Others have a hand in this."  Obviously, the NW does not know what type of weapon the Others use at the time, and include axe as one of the weapons they use.

 

[sweetsunray]

16 minutes ago, Darkstream said:

You may have a point with Jaimie, but the profile still fits for Cercei.

Jaime isn't a POV until aSoS, and Cersei isn't until aFfC. Jaime's painted as a straightforward villain for two books. While we get the clues by Tyrion in aGoT that it wasn't him. It's left open ended until aSoS and actually implicates Littlefinger for 2 more books. And then you have a vague realization by Tyrion, and well it's unconfirmed really. Joff is dead. The catspaw is dead. Bran didn't die either. And Catelyn's also dead. Tyrion's realization matters little at the end, doesn't change the story and the mistakes made by other characters because of suspecting the wrong person. 

[Tijgy]

On 31-8-2016 at 1:15 AM, sweetsunray said:

What I find genially done by George is how he uses a reader's hope to dismiss clues. Even the scene of Bannen's burrial where Sam thinks he sees him sit up in the fire and try to fight the flames, the mind is too tempted to think - Sam imagined it. Bannen didn't become a wight all of a sudden. Well, why would Bannen not have become a wight? How does one become a wight? It seems enough that you just die North of the Wall. You don't need to be touched by the Others. Die north of the wall, and you become a wight. So, Bannen died, and possibly did become a wight, but was already on the pyre and killed by fire.

Yeah. When I was writing in my theory the part of the Raven yelling "Dead, dead, dead..." (sort of paraphrasing?), I also wrote like ten sentences that this would probably not really mean Ben is dead, right? (Even now, I am still hoping for his survival. Hope can be something very strong ). 

6 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Yeah, that is a likely scenario...But as I said, when Jon's at Craster's that's at least a year after Benjen left. And the time Jon thinks of the blazes they found NW is over half a year earlier than his visit to Craster's (it's before the Tourney of the Hand takes place).

So, by the time Jon arrives at Craster's the something untoward that happened to Benjen happened anywhere between 8-10 months ago, which is ample time for a wighted Benjen to end up near Craster's.

I might actually get into the belief Ben went first to the Fist and got somehow as a wight at Craster. I am just a firm believer of my own theory which assumes there is a connection between the conversation of the Old Bear and Jon and the weird descent of Jon where he finds the cloak (which is also a lot of speculation but speculation is fun!). So our theories are not completely exclusive . 

So I will admit Ben might have turned into a sausage . Oh why?

 

[sweetsunray]

1 minute ago, Tijgy said:

Yeah. When I was writing in my theory the part of the Raven yelling "Dead, dead, dead..." (sort of paraphrasing?), I also wrote like ten sentences that this would probably not really mean Ben is dead, right? (Even now, I am still hoping for his survival. Hope can be something very strong ). 

I might actually get into the belief Ben went first to the Fist and got somehow as a wight at Craster. I am just a firm believer of my own theory which assumes there is a connection between the conversation of the Old Bear and Jon and the weird descent of Jon where he finds the cloak (which is also a lot of speculation but speculation is fun!). So our theories are not completely exclusive . 

So I will admit Ben might have turned into a sausage . Oh why?

 

Absolutely. GRRM totally uses our hopes in that way, constantly.

It might make sense that way - Benjen playing a part in the stash of obsidian, but who gave it to him? Or where did he find it? The CotF clearly would never have forgotten about it. It fits with the raven saying "dead". Would the raven say "dead" is he was undead?

Or... just an idea that popped into my head, just brainstorming... they managed to do something similar to him as was done to Coldhands, and he tried to reach the split half of his ranger party at Craster's, but failed at it? Although I'm inclined to believe the proposal you probably need to be wighed greenseer/warg in order to become like Coldhands.

[Tijgy]

17 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

It might make sense that way - Benjen playing a part in the stash of obsidian, but who gave it to him? Or where did he find it? The CotF clearly would never have forgotten about it. It fits with the raven saying "dead". Would the raven say "dead" is he was undead?

 

I think the problem with the stash it is sort of a little paradox? So thinks Jon for example "Had Ghost uncovered some ancient cache of the children of the forest, buried here for thousands of years? The Fist of the First Men was an old place, only...". 

So we do have firstly a connection with the CoTF. OTOH we also have the fact that the cache "had been put here recently" and the cloak of a brother of the NW "could not have been long in the ground". 

And this leads in my opinion to two main possibilities. A ranger (Ben?) found the stash/was given the stash and buried it at the Fist or somebody who had a stash encountered a NW Man and got the cloak and buried the stash with the cloak. In the end it has to be someone who was in one way connected to the old and the CoTF and to the new and the NW. 

Raven thinks really Ben is dead. He says it like six times. But if we look closer to the conversation: 

"If Ben Stark is alive and free, he will come to us, I have no doubt."
"Yes," said on, "but ... what if ..."
"... he is dead?" Mormont asked, not unkindly.
Jon nodded, reluctantly.
"Dead," the raven said. "Dead. Dead."  (that beast is so ominous )
"He may come to us anyway," the Old Bear said. "As Othor did, and Jafer Flowers. I dread that as mush as you, Jon, buy we must admit the possibility." 
"Dead," his raven cawed, ruffling its wings. Its voice grew louder and more shrill. "Dead." 
Mormont stroked the birds black feathers, and stifled a sudden yawn with the back of his hand (look how cute )

Maybe does Raven mean with dead also undead? The Old Bear uses dead also for Othor and Jafer. And we have here them Ben is coming to them, Jon founding a "recent grave" without a corpse and graveworms and we have here Old Bear given the fate of Othor and Jafer to Ben (as a wight). 

We have also the following description of the forest: 

"Yet as the dusk deepened and darkness seeped into the hollows between the trees, Jon's sense of foreboding grew. This is the haunted forest, he told himself. Maybe there are ghosts here, the spirits of the First Men. This was their place, once. 

"I know this wood as well as any man alive, and I tell you, I wouldn't care to ride through it alone tonight. Can't you smell it? (...) "Seems to me like it smell ... well ... cold" (said by Dywen) (...) There is, Jon thought, remembering the night in the Lord Commander's chambers. It smells like death.

When the dead came walking, Ghost knew. He woke me, warned me. Alarmed, he got to his feet. "Is something out there? Ghost, do you have a scent. Dywen said he smelled cold. 

And then Jon decided to follow Ghost, while he is thinking Ghost is leading him to the dead  Smart idea. In the end Ghost leads him to 'a grave' without a corpse - and I am actually pretty certain that Ghost was lead there with some intervention of the old gods. But it is interesting that GRRM does focus heavily on the possibility of the walking dead in the haunting forest at this moment. On the other side it is also interesting that Ghost did not had any problem in running around in the haunting forest but refused to enter the Fist. And we also know that places where direwolves do not want to enter, are places that their two-footed friends should not enter. (see Grey Wind at the Twins) 

 

[Illyrio Mo'Parties]

Crikey, OP.

On Tuesday, 30 August 2016 at 1:09 PM, sweetsunray said:

...there is no reason whatsoever to assume that people only become wights when they are killed by wights or Others. [...] What if it was just the magic of the Others North of the Wall strengthening and it is simply enough that you die – from the cold, starvation, murdered by another human, choked on a chicken bone? You die, and hours later, when the moon is high, you rise as a wight North of the Wall.

Apologies if someone else has mentioned this, but the chick that tends to Varymyr Sixskins doesn't get killed by wights or t'Others, and she comes back as a wight.

As an aside, I wonder what became of Varymyr's corpse? It would be interesting if he was the one that Bran had eaten. Perhaps he absorbed some of his powers! (That is, I think, how cannibalism often worked in real life, at least according to its savage practitioners and/or this one episode of The X-Files.)

 

[sweetsunray]

Well, we do have a character that is both suggested to be old and connected to the CotF, as well as the NW, and who seems to know stuff like a greenseer almost, and that's Coldhands.

I'm not fond of time-influencing Bran, but I do think it can work in an insular way, as in future-Bran manages to influence or help characters that he met and influenced his plot. And with Coldhands calling himself "Your monster" to Bran (right after the "pork" eating scene), I always have this uncanny feeling that at some point the trained Bran (who's even a stronger greenseer than BR) managed to do what BR says can't be done, but only with people he met.

Example:

I suspect that Coldhands saved and helped Gared reach the Black Gate together with the pregnant direwolf, with a future-Bran having 2 goals in mind to help and save his siblings as well as warn the North  - give each of his siblings a direwolf. Gared was saved in the hope to warn and tell Ned Stark what was going on North of the Wall. The direwolf's pups would be there to protect and help his siblings and stay in connection with each other. But Gared had partially a melt-down after all he had seen and what he said made no sense to Ned. I think it's very suspect that GRRM left out what Gared actually said. So this attempt failed, but the direwolves are a help for some for a while.

He certainly has Coldhands help Sam, because he met Sam, and Sam ends up bringing Bran to Coldhands who helps Bran get to the cave.

Bran tries to reach out to Jon in a dream in the weirwood tree, how good it is down there, but at the time Bran's still South of the Wall.

How did Ghost get South of the Wall? A NW man who's watch hasn't ended must open the Black Gate. So, who managed to do that and let Ghost through?

And yes, it's also possible that Jafer and Othor were another attempt of future-Bran trying to warn the NW (after the failed attempt of Gared), but that almost goes wrong. (though I'd still say Craster killed Jafer and Othor).

And then Jon finding the cache.

The question is Coldhands the sole one?

[sweetsunray]

5 minutes ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

Crikey, OP.

Apologies if someone else has mentioned this, but the chick that tends to Varymyr Sixskins doesn't get killed by wights or t'Others, and she comes back as a wight.

As an aside, I wonder what became of Varymyr's corpse? It would be interesting if he was the one that Bran had eaten. Perhaps he absorbed some of his powers! (That is, I think, how cannibalism often worked in real life, at least according to its savage practitioners and/or this one episode of The X-Files.)

 

Well, I tried to check for Varamyr's Thistle. But we're not sure how she died. He tried to skinchange her; She bites her tongue and claws at her eyes. But she's not dead yet then. Then there's the description of his soul going into the tree and trying other animals until he finds his wolf pack. The 3 watch from a rim and see wights walking, and Thistle ends up amongst them and looks at him. It is possible that she was killed by a wight. It's not really clear. But I do suspect that it's not necessary. It's not a zombie virus. It's magic.

I think he gave them flesh of one of the mutineers he killed.

But I agree it's a possibility that absorbing the original's powers may come into play. In that sense Varamyr would be interesting, because he was a powerful skinchanger, controlling several beasts all at once. And for that reason too I'm wondering about Sam who ate imo wight sausage. Who was the wight? He does seem less a craven afterwards. Ok, he's not actually a craven imo. It's just what he always believed himself to be. But Sam would have been scared shitless of Coldhands, no? But he doesn't seem to have much issue with him. Sam has seen wights. He knows Coldhands must be a wight. But he's almost jolly about him. And then the thign he does with the voting for LC between the two rivals. It just seemed to have given him a bit more confidence.  

[Macgregor of the North]

8 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

Thanks, I had forgotten that quote!

That quote makes it more unlikely that Benjen met the same fate, sweetsunray. The manner in which it is worded "and it stopped abruptly, and vanished" makes it seem like something sudden and untoward happened to Benjen in that area. It's not near Craster's Keep though.

I'd say that it's likely that Benjen and his party passed the abandoned villages we see in ACOK, and he must have realised something's up

Yup. This fits better i believe. The Mance has already said to Jon that there is much more commerce between the free folk and the Nights watch than Jon knows and i believe this is a wee clue for us. There are seven villages before Crasters i believe, more than enough ways for Ben to realise somethings up. Even if a Wildling never mentioned it, which is actually quite likely that they did, then he could have seen trails and followed, wondering why all these free folk are heading west in numbers.

Infact, as first ranger it is his duty to do this.

He most certainly split the party up as you say LSoN. Some were likely told to ride hard for Castle Black with tidings that the free folk were heading west en masse from the villages, sadly they never made it though, and possibly other rangers were told to continue the search for the Rangers lost on previous rangings. Ben himself may have even thought to strike west alone, counselling that he would make better time, or maybe he had info on the cache, or info on something/someone who could lead him to the cache so he could find the horn before the wildlings.

In any event i 100% believe that Benjen Stark never made it to Crasters keep on that ranging and he struck west before that.

His fate in the story and further involvement will be something more interesting than becoming a wight sausage i believe. Something possibly as interesting as praying before a weirwood and Bran whispering to him that he should stash the cache at the fist for Ghost/Jon to find. How awesome would that be.

[Regular John Umber]

56 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

 

Example:

I suspect that Coldhands saved and helped Gared reach the Black Gate together with the pregnant direwolf, with a future-Bran having 2 goals in mind to help and save his siblings as well as warn the North  - give each of his siblings a direwolf. Gared was saved in the hope to warn and tell Ned Stark what was going on North of the Wall. The direwolf's pups would be there to protect and help his siblings and stay in connection with each other. But Gared had partially a melt-down after all he had seen and what he said made no sense to Ned. I think it's very suspect that GRRM left out what Gared actually said. So this attempt failed, but the direwolves are a help for some for a while.

He certainly has Coldhands help Sam, because he met Sam, and Sam ends up bringing Bran to Coldhands who helps Bran get to the cave.

Bran tries to reach out to Jon in a dream in the weirwood tree, how good it is down there, but at the time Bran's still South of the Wall.

 

 

 I've often wondered about something: GRRM claims that the first inkling of AsoiaF that evern came to him - the scene that started it all - was Bran's first chapter. It's curious, because it has nothing to do with a lot of what happens in the story. What it does have, is Gared, the Night's Watch, and the pups.

 

 Could it be that the reason this chapter came to him is exactly as you've outlined: the events that Bran experienced were orchestrated by himself, in the future?

[sweetsunray]

11 minutes ago, Regular John Umber said:

Could it be that the reason this chapter came to him is exactly as you've outlined: the events that Bran experienced were orchestrated by himself, in the future?

I'm starting to lean that way, yes. And it's the only influencing through time that would be workable without getting into a grandfather paradox. It happened so nothing that future Bran does actually changes his past/our present, especially since future-Bran is never physically there, only in a dream.

Let's for a moment imagine that a future Bran witnesses Jon being caesared, and Ghost is not by his side. So, somehow he uses his influence to help Ghost return to Jon, thinking "If Jon has Ghost by his side, he won't be assassinated," but Jon himself keeps Ghost away at the time, and still is assassinated.

   

[Macgregor of the North]

12 minutes ago, Regular John Umber said:

 

 I've often wondered about something: GRRM claims that the first inkling of AsoiaF that evern came to him - the scene that started it all - was Bran's first chapter. It's curious, because it has nothing to do with a lot of what happens in the story. What it does have, is Gared, the Night's Watch, and the pups.

 

 Could it be that the reason this chapter came to him is exactly as you've outlined: the events that Bran experienced were orchestrated by himself, in the future?

Had the exact same idea myself. Laid out here;

I have been thinking about Bran lately and his part in the coming books due to large discussions in a thread I made recently which centred around Bran and his arc. 

We touched a bit on how much his powers will grow in the next two novels and it's set me to thinking about what he can achieve. 

What really set me off on this particular topic was a GRRM quote I read again recently where he spoke of how the first Bran chapter came to him. 

". ... In my case, when I wrote the first chapter of A Game of Thrones, I didn’t really know what I had. In fact I was writing quite a different book, a science-fiction book; and this chapter just came to me so vividly that I put the science fiction aside and wrote it."

When he says he was already writing a science fiction book and it came to him so vividly it seems his mind was focused on a sci fi theme but the Bran chapter with the finding of the pups just came to him. 

I wonder if the sci fi element was still half there when his thoughts drifted to Bran and the pup finding story and even this far back (91' I think), he may have already had it in his head that Bran may have the powers to reach back through time and manipulate events to his benefit in the future/current.

We are already getting the strong impression that Bran may well surpass Bloodraven in regards to greenseer powers. Myself personally I'm in no doubt Bran is not only going to surpass him, but he's going to go so far past him in ability he will shock BR with what he's capable of. 

We know when Bran masters his technique he will see beyond the trees and will be able to see events that didn't just happen in front of Weirwood trees. This is only a matter of time. 

What I'm thinking may happen is that things we have been reading through Brans story are serving as a learning curve for Bran, so by the time he sits on his Weirwood throne he has already heard the tales, and even lived through some moments already, to prepare himself with knowledge he will use when he reaches through time to the past and sees that with his powers, he can apply his knowledge and powers to certain events to ensure they happen. 

The best way to show what I mean may be to use an example, and this is why I spoke of the Direwolve pups at the end. 

The first chapter written, Brans view of events of how the pups are found. Bran sees the old deserter Gared executed, and finds out he is not a Wildling but actually a sworn brother of the Night's watch. Then on the return Bran sees Robb and Jon find the pups in the snow around their mother, a massive dead Direwolf, not seen south of the wall for two hundred years apparently. 

This is how Bran finally has his other half Summer enter his life, who will become important on every level of Brans life.

Here let's see what Bran has learned that may be important to him.

Gared was a nights watch deserter, a sworn brother who has said the words. 

Direwolves, the sigil of his and his fathers house, still dwell in the world.

Fast forward to later in the story and let's add some more important information to what Bran already knows. 

In ASOS, Through Sam, Bran learns that there is a door through the Wall but it can only be opened by a sworn brother of the Night's watch. 

If we add these pieces of information up, and view them along with Brans powers. Then we could even then be so bold as to make the leap that it is Bran who has possibly played a huge part in making sure the pregnant Direwolf made it south with the aid of the door being opened by Gared, the Nights watch deserter. 

This is kind of in opposition to(but certainly not to debunk) the theories that it was BR who instigated these events I am talking about. It's just a view I've had a lot recently.

If we think about it, why not Bran? I am quite sure he will prove BR wrong and show that he can indeed manipulate past events. 

And in the above example, Bran is the constant in all those things. He learns the deserter is a sworn brother and what he looks like as he is there. He learns Direwolves are a very real thing because he is there when they are found. He learns of the secret door, where it is and the fact it can only be opened by a sworn brother of the Night's watch because he has actually found this out in person and physically passed through the door. 

Bran has done all these things and therefore stored all the data he needs so that when he sits his Weirwood throne, and realises his full potential which I believe will be at an unbelievable level in the next two books, then he has the means to reach through time and manoeuvre things into place for the the deserter to know of the secret door, and for the Direwolf to possibly move south through it.

Basically, what I'm saying is that with the way I think Bran is heading in regards to his powers, and the possibility that GRRM had a slightly sci fi head on while he wrote the first chapter of his story, he maybe had this vision of Bran being able to reach through time all along from the very beginning in 1991.

These thoughts tie in heavily with the ideas I spoke of with others about the possibility of time loops in Planetos, the idea that Bran will grow up to be Brandon the builder- in reference to the small boy who told Durran how to build Storms end in its magical form who grew up to be Brandon the builder.

This means that Bran has possibly been going through the story as we read it living through some of the moments, and hearing of other moments throughout the stories history in tales told to him by people such as Old Nan and Meera Reed (for two examples) and he then acts on this knowledge to reach through time and influence the stories to his benefit. 

This has been touched on by plenty others but I just wanted to lay down some of my own thoughts on the matter. When we think on things from this angle, the possibilities are endless and very interesting where Bran is concerned.

 

[Regular John Umber]

26 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

 

This has been touched on by plenty others but I just wanted to lay down some of my own thoughts on the matter. When we think on things from this angle, the possibilities are endless and very interesting where Bran is concerned.

 

 

 The 'endlessness' is perhaps the main problem with the theory/idea, because such a powerful person would render everything in the story thus far pretty pointless and unsatisfying. However, since the signs seems to point to it becoming a reality, there must be some sort of catch or limitation to his powers - although I can't think of anything right off the bat...

[Macgregor of the North]

2 minutes ago, Regular John Umber said:

 

 The 'endlessness' is perhaps the main problem with the theory/idea, because such a powerful person would render everything in the story thus far pretty pointless and unsatisfying. However, since the signs seems to point to it becoming a reality, there must be some sort of catch or limitation to his powers - although I can't think of anything right off the bat...

I always think of the way GRRM teased us with Arya(another Stark child funnily enough) getting the power to change the whole path of the Novels with her three death wishes. 

She never picks who we would have thought obvious choices for her own reasons that suited her at the time and feels regret about it also. 

I think it may work sort of similar with Bran, it won't turn out as clear cut that he could just reach through and change everything to suit him and his family. 

Infact, @Little Scribe of Naath explains it better. The things that have happened in the 'past' that Bran may have influenced in some way or form, through tree guidance etc, has 'always happened that way', like a closed time loop. 

When I think on all the atrocities that have happened that could have been 'changed', maybe somewhere we will find out that things had to happen in that sequence for whatever reason, keeping in tune with, and bringing things toward, the bittersweet ending we are promised to get. 

It's hard to explain really, I 'get it' sometimes and then struggle to word it on other times. It's a tough concept to get the head round.

[sweetsunray]

31 minutes ago, Regular John Umber said:

 

 The 'endlessness' is perhaps the main problem with the theory/idea, because such a powerful person would render everything in the story thus far pretty pointless and unsatisfying. However, since the signs seems to point to it becoming a reality, there must be some sort of catch or limitation to his powers - although I can't think of anything right off the bat...

I think it only works if it serves his own arc. It's the ourobouros snake eating its own tail imo.

Other example that hasn't been mentioned yet and that could be possibly influenced by him - Osha and the two men in the Wolfswood. Yes, wildlings climb the wall, but Osha seems to know stuff and attempts to help Bran get on his path, telling him how the gods speak (with the wind in the leaves). Osha was with 3 other wildlings and 2 deserters. All the other men die, except for Osha, who helps them hide in the crypts and becomes the foster mother of Rickon.

Also, he can only talk in dreams and such as we've seen him do with Jon, or whispering Theon's name in the godswood. That person still has to believe it and is free to reject or follow the advice. That keeps it vague - did Bran actually change something or was it always like that, except now there's some dream added to it.

[Regular John Umber]

18 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

I think it only works if it serves his own arc. It's the ourobouros snake eating its own tail imo.

 

That's probably right. This explains it better than I could:

https://weirwoodleviathan.wordpress.com/2016/04/27/iii-now-i-am-become-death-legacy-of-a-toy-soldier/

 

[Little Scribe of Naath]

3 hours ago, Macgregor of the North said:

Yup. This fits better i believe. The Mance has already said to Jon that there is much more commerce between the free folk and the Nights watch than Jon knows and i believe this is a wee clue for us. There are seven villages before Crasters i believe, more than enough ways for Ben to realise somethings up. Even if a Wildling never mentioned it, which is actually quite likely that they did, then he could have seen trails and followed, wondering why all these free folk are heading west in numbers.

Infact, as first ranger it is his duty to do this.

He most certainly split the party up as you say LSoN. Some were likely told to ride hard for Castle Black with tidings that the free folk were heading west en masse from the villages, sadly they never made it though, and possibly other rangers were told to continue the search for the Rangers lost on previous rangings. Ben himself may have even thought to strike west alone, counselling that he would make better time, or maybe he had info on the cache, or info on something/someone who could lead him to the cache so he could find the horn before the wildlings.

In any event i 100% believe that Benjen Stark never made it to Crasters keep on that ranging and he struck west before that.

His fate in the story and further involvement will be something more interesting than becoming a wight sausage i believe. Something possibly as interesting as praying before a weirwood and Bran whispering to him that he should stash the cache at the fist for Ghost/Jon to find. How awesome would that be.

Yep, this is what makes the most sense to me, honestly. My hunch that Benjen's story resembled the Last Hero has actually become stronger after this thread  The quote you guys provided about him heading northwest and suddenly "vanishing", the Theon dream in ACOK, possibly the dragonglass cache at the Fist being placed by him (which means he met the children), the fact that the Others would have used him as leverage if they didn't have another purpose for him in mind, so on.

It's always been a notion of mine that there is some connection between Starks and Others, and Ben's story (and whatever he has become) will be key to revealing that. Basically, IMO, his character has to have a purpose which specifically a Stark can accomplish, otherwise his role could have been taken over/ or eliminated from the story long back.

[Little Scribe of Naath]

2 hours ago, Macgregor of the North said:

I always think of the way GRRM teased us with Arya(another Stark child funnily enough) getting the power to change the whole path of the Novels with her three death wishes. 

She never picks who we would have thought obvious choices for her own reasons that suited her at the time and feels regret about it also. 

I think it may work sort of similar with Bran, it won't turn out as clear cut that he could just reach through and change everything to suit him and his family. 

Infact, @Little Scribe of Naath explains it better. The things that have happened in the 'past' that Bran may have influenced in some way or form, through tree guidance etc, has 'always happened that way', like a closed time loop. 

When I think on all the atrocities that have happened that could have been 'changed', maybe somewhere we will find out that things had to happen in that sequence for whatever reason, keeping in tune with, and bringing things toward, the bittersweet ending we are promised to get. 

It's hard to explain really, I 'get it' sometimes and then struggle to word it on other times. It's a tough concept to get the head round.

I see that time travel tends to follow me around.....:P

Currently, in the books, we only have evidence for Bran being a subconscious influence - i.e being able to possibly speak only through trees, ravens, wind and so on into the past. Let's go easy on the predictions as to what he might and might not have influenced -  although I usually disregard show, we have a very strong hint this season that Bran might realise messing drastically with the past has consequences, and hence stop doing so after a while. All magic has consequences in this world, as we know.

I am in the camp that thinks the past influences will be very low-key, similar to how Bran influenced Theon in ADWD. Bran is definitely going to realise, at some point, that he actually can't alter the outcome of anything.