Scootaloo Stark Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 As we all know, the reputation of House Frey isn't the best, before and after the Red Wedding. What if they had stayed loyal to Robb and not betrayed him? The wedding happens, Lord Walder accepts Robb's apology (I know this is a stretch), and they all go through with Robb's plans and continue the war. And so on. Now, let's assume the North at least somewhat wins this war and can stay an independent kingdom, or they defeat the Lannisters completely, or whatever. My question is, how would House Frey's reputation have changed? Would it have changed at all? They'd be allies who fought with them. Would this help them get rid of the "upstart" label? And maybe also stop the talk of the "Late Lord Frey", if they fought several battles with Robb? What do you think? PS: I guess we also have to assume that Bolton doesn't do anything that would spoil all this. Then again, I don't think he would, if the Freys didn't go along with it. PPS: No, I don't like the Freys. I'm asking this just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Warning Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 I doubt much would change, mostly it probably comes down to the fact that a house that is "only" 600 years old is now the second most prominent house in the Riverlands and has accumulated that power through tolls. Jealously and spite will be at the heart of it, even if the Freys themselves aren't particularly pleasant. If anything they'd probably get more shit for being upstarts that now have a queen at the side of the King of the North and Riverlands. The Late Lord Frey is a personal thing between Walder and Hoster as well, that would probably be forgotten more or less in a few generations, someone being late to a battle that was won anyway isn't a big enough deal to taint the name of a house forever nor would it disappear because they fought in some battles for Robb it still happened after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShimShim Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 I think the Frey name will now forever be an insult...One of my favorite lines was “Put up your steel, ser! Are you a Corbray or a Frey? and "What would a Frey know of honor". The Frey name has been completely dragged into the dirt. When it comes to reputations there is no coming back from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLE Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 Ironically the Freys were well on their way to earning a better reputation under Robb, having played a fine part particularly in Robb's campaign in the Westerlands. Ser Stevron, generally regarded as the best and most honourable of them, even died in Robb's service after taking a wound in the battle of Oxcross - although his death seems not to have been caused by the wound, which was not thought serious enough to kill, and certainly did not last long enough to fester: did he simply die of age-related conditions such as a stroke or heart attack, or was he poisoned by some agent of Tywin's or Roose's, precisely *because* he was the strongest and most honourable link between the Starks and Freys, if he had lived he would have found some way to smooth things over even after the Westerling marriage, or possibly managed to persuade Robb out of marrying Jeyne Westerling at all? And another Frey (I believe it may have been Black Walder) distinguished himself in another battle. They also took pains to keep Ser Perwyn (who may be as honourable as his brother) and young Olyvar (Robb's squire, who might have been his partisan) away from the Red Wedding, presumably for fear that they would finds a way to warn Robb of the planned treachery if they were present and knew what was going on. But after the Red Wedding, there's no way back for them. Even Perwyn and Olyvar, who weren't even involved or present, will be hated by all and sundry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scootaloo Stark Posted November 20, 2016 Author Share Posted November 20, 2016 59 minutes ago, JLE said: Ironically the Freys were well on their way to earning a better reputation under Robb, having played a fine part particularly in Robb's campaign in the Westerlands. Ser Stevron, generally regarded as the best and most honourable of them, even died in Robb's service after taking a wound in the battle of Oxcross [...] And another Frey (I believe it may have been Black Walder) distinguished himself in another battle. [...] Exactly what I thought and why I asked this. They were slowly getting a little less looked down upon. The Northeners would've surely acknowledged their feats in battle. If Robb had won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 The Freys have always been on the outside of the Westerosi nobility cliques. They can't trace their lineage back "thousands" of years(despite such lengthy lines likely being vs) and are still looked upon as "new money" as it were. Then add to this resentment of these "higher" houses having to pay tribute to use the Frey bridge. Thus you have a situation where no matter what they do, they're going to be scorned and ridiculed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1000th Lord Commander Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 I agree that the 'Late Lord Frey' thing is something that would fade in a generation. If the North had forced its way to independence, and the Freys managed to marry off some of thier large brood to chief bannermen of the North and Riverlands, then it's concievable that they would have accumulated respect over a few generations. Not as much as they would have gotten from marrying someone off to Robb, but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywater-Watch Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 5 hours ago, ShimShim said: I think the Frey name will now forever be an insult...One of my favorite lines was “Put up your steel, ser! Are you a Corbray or a Frey? and "What would a Frey know of honor". The Frey name has been completely dragged into the dirt. When it comes to reputations there is no coming back from this. This argument does not hold in the context of the question asked in the opening post. If I remember correctly, the line I marked in bold is from the parley between Littlefinger and six Lords of the Vale in the Eyrie, but well after the Red Wedding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 Seems to me The Freys are an unlikeable bunch. Old Walder could have had Robb forever in his debt, forged lasting alliances with the North and Riverlands and perhaps the Vale even. He could have warded out all the little Frey kids and married all his children out and in many cases up, if Robb won TWO5K. Near the end of ADWD Jamie goes to Tytos Blackwood with terms of surrender and forgiveness. Jamie has regard for Tytos' loyalty with the Direwolf still flying over Ravenwood Hall. Long after TWO5K, there is still honor attached to those who fought for Robb. Right or wrong, Robb earned some prestige in winning all his battles. I cannot speak to past generations of Freys, but Walder is an especially unsavory Lord, his sense of opportunism unparalleled. I realize Walder Frey is written to be unliked, still there is a smarminess glares in this tale of moral greyness. No, I think Old Walder could have established a decent reputation staying completely loyal to Robb. There is no hope for his house name now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.