Wm Portnoy

Second Sons, or the beggars

10 posts in this topic

  1. Does it suck to be the second or third child in this system?  The oldest get the lands and the titles.  What's a poor guy like Hosteen Frey to do? 
  2. Are the fathers obligated to support the other children.  By this my meaning is are they required to leave some resources for the other children in the will? 
  3. The ruling family has provisions for the heir temporarily residing on Dragonstone and that seat passes to the remaining child when the heir inherits.  What happens to the rest?  What would happen to the third and so forth?  I assume there's a job for them at court and it's not like to be a pleasant job if the elder sibling doesn't much like them.  What was Aerion's job at court? 
  4. Assuming Robb inherited Winterfell.  What would happen to other children's financial support?  Are they permanently going to depend on Robb's charity?

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In this feudal system, the oldest son gets everything and it would appear that neither the father or the oldest son is obliged to give the younger brother/s anything, which is the reason why many sons, especially the third one and the ones who come after him, often join armies and companies.

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On 5/6/2017 at 4:21 PM, Wm Portnoy said:
  1. Does it suck to be the second or third child in this system?  The oldest get the lands and the titles.  What's a poor guy like Hosteen Frey to do?  Work for the first son in some capacity or if he has the skills he can become a knight.
  2. Are the fathers obligated to support the other children.  By this my meaning is are they required to leave some resources for the other children in the will? No
  3. The ruling family has provisions for the heir temporarily residing on Dragonstone and that seat passes to the remaining child when the heir inherits.  What happens to the rest?  What would happen to the third and so forth?  I assume there's a job for them at court and it's not like to be a pleasant job if the elder sibling doesn't much like them.  What was Aerion's job at court?  Good question.
  4. Assuming Robb inherited Winterfell.  What would happen to other children's financial support?  Are they permanently going to depend on Robb's charity?  The girls will be married off to suitable northern houses.  Jon goes to the wall.  Bran and Rickon will serve Robb.

 

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The eldest gets the seat and the hereditary titles. The younger get keeps and holdfasts as needed. There usually isn't a shortage of fortifications in any given realm, although they may require some sprucing up.

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There's also the way of the Maester, the Silent Sisters and the Sept for younger siblings.

 

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The ideal family situation is one or two sons (heir and a spare) and maybe a pretty daughter or two to marry off strategically. An extra child or two passed off into a Faith is good spiritual insurance.

If you have a situation where ancestral lands go entire to the eldest son, and then maybe lesser estates get parcelled out to younger sons, you don't want too many sons. I mean, it was terribly lucky *cough* the Crusades happened when they did here, so all those spare sons had somewhere else to go and fight and claim lands.  

Martial orders are also nominally celibate. That way, you don't get dynastic ambition, whilst still having effective military force.  Similarly, religious orders curtail the numbers of next gen claimants.

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i did notice that several of the younger sons often focus on becoming knights, then it would easier to have them married off for political alliances, or they stay with the family and serve with the rest of the house military, think garlan tyrell or oberyn martell. others might given occupations within the family. look at brothers of tywin. they still seemed to live at the Rock, so it seems that tywin gave them all something to do. and in the north, this is likely more prevalent. the northerners seem to think more in lines of "family", rather than "House", the way most in the south do.

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Second Sons become PoV characters in Game of Thrones... Ned, Tyrion, Jon, Bran

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a2nd-3rd sons were very useful for nobility. First of all people used to die like flies through war, pestilence and even the most common of illnesses, which means that 2nd-3rd sons had a good shot of becoming heirs.  Secondly inheriting lands and act like a Lord was not the only career progression available. At a time when education was limited to the few 2nd-3rd sons with good connections could find great administrative posts either with the liege lord or the king or have an excellent military career. The church offered great career opportunities too either as a priest (Bishop and cardinal posts were literally bought off back then and they held great political influence + luxuries that no modern priest can enjoy these days including the pope himself) or part of a military order (Knights Hospitaliers etc). Few months ago I had the opportunity to visit the former house (actually a palace) which was bought by a knight of this kind to his mistress. I assure you that the vote of castity and poverty weren't really taken seriously back then. 

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