UFT Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 during robert's rebellion, rather than stagnating outside? maybe he commissions tarly to lead one massive assault up the walls, once and for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Tristan Flowers Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Well, if they capture Stannis and Renly, the war is over. There wouldn´t even be a battle of the trident since they spent almost a year sieging Storms End. Of course everyone that´s ever seen Storms End tells us how insane it would be to assault it, wich means Mace would actually lose thousands of men in a meatgrinder and perhaps still not take the castle. And for what? Protecting a king everyone hates? That´s propably why he sat around there to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makk Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 The single biggest advantage would be the number of men it would free up. Mace Tyrell took a huge number of men to siege Stormsend and they achieved nothing. If those troops were available to use against Roberts armies it would have been a big advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell's son Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 2 hours ago, UFT said: during robert's rebellion, rather than stagnating outside? maybe he commissions tarly to lead one massive assault up the walls, once and for all. He would quickly lose it again to troops smuggled in by the onion knight so the story would continue as written Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMIFairy Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 4 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said: He would quickly lose it again to troops smuggled in by the onion knight so the story would continue as written LOL! You really came down like a load of bricks on this POD, didn't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormking902 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Exactly we know that there were a few thousand Reach knights with Rhegar at the trident it always bothered me Rhegar wouldnt request Mace Tyrell send him more troops, the Reach apparently can field over 80000 men but 20000 at SE and a few thousand with the Royalist army where are the rest ?? It is treason to not answer your lord/kings call with a quarter of your army especially during a civil war for the crown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMIFairy Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 11 minutes ago, Stormking902 said: it always bothered me Rhegar wouldnt request Mace Tyrell send him more troops, the Reach apparently can field over 80000 men but 20000 at SE and a few thousand with the Royalist army where are the rest ?? It is treason to not answer your lord/kings call with a quarter of your army especially during a civil war for the crown. I remember reading somewhere that for some reason (weightism?) Aerys did not want the Tyrells around, hence everything Mace had brought was kept in the south outside of Storms End. Is this an ass-pull or canon - I know not ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elder brother jonothor dar Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 2 hours ago, TMIFairy said: I remember reading somewhere that for some reason (weightism?) Aerys did not want the Tyrells around, hence everything Mace had brought was kept in the south outside of Storms End. Is this an ass-pull or canon - I know not ... I suspect it was Connington it is implied that he wanted the glory for himself, from there it is a small step to imagine he sent Mace and Tarlly to siege Stormsend while he chased Robert. The fact that nobody commanded the Tyrell army to split and join the battle for the Trident, or worse yet immediately march for KL double time once the battle was lost and fuck the seige is a slight oversight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMIFairy Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 34 minutes ago, elder brother jonothor dar said: 1 - I suspect it was Connington it is implied that he wanted the glory for himself, from there it is a small step to imagine he sent Mace and Tarlly to siege Stormsend while he chased Robert. 2 - The fact that nobody commanded the Tyrell army to split and join the battle for the Trident, or worse yet immediately march for KL double time once the battle was lost and fuck the seige is a slight oversight 1 - good to know I am not (too) delusional (yet). Such issues do decide battles and campaigns. 2 - well Aerys was crazy, Rheagar was getting there, both were arrogant, the Hand of the King was a "scientist" and not a statesman ...a recipe for disaster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denam_Pavel Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 If it happened before the Battle of the Trident, it would free up the Reach army to help the war, Tywin and Lord Frey would smell which way the wind is blowing and add their strength to the loyalists and crush the Rebellion completely. If it happened too late and Tywin moves on King's Landing under the impression Robert's victory is certain we'd see Randyll Tarly and Mace Tyrell holding out against Ned Stark, Stannis put to death, the Redwyne fleet free to defend Dragonstone and Daenerys Stormborn becomes Daenerys Quite Peacefully Born. Queen-Regent Rhaella negotiates peaceterms and Tywin has to spin his story. Gregor Clegane and Amory Lorch are executed for the crimes they committed completely of their own initiative, Jaime Lannister is dismissed from the Kingsguard (maybe he has to take the black but he would never reach the Wall before his escort is ambushed and killed), we'd see some new marriage alliances (perhaps Tywin and Rhaella and Robb and Daenerys) but Robert becomes King and Viserys would have to settle for Prince of Dragonstone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Tristan Flowers Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Denam_Pavel said: If it happened before the Battle of the Trident, it would free up the Reach army to help the war, Tywin and Lord Frey would smell which way the wind is blowing and add their strength to the loyalists and crush the Rebellion completely. If it happened too late and Tywin moves on King's Landing under the impression Robert's victory is certain we'd see Randyll Tarly and Mace Tyrell holding out against Ned Stark, Stannis put to death, the Redwyne fleet free to defend Dragonstone and Daenerys Stormborn becomes Daenerys Quite Peacefully Born. Queen-Regent Rhaella negotiates peaceterms and Tywin has to spin his story. Gregor Clegane and Amory Lorch are executed for the crimes they committed completely of their own initiative, Jaime Lannister is dismissed from the Kingsguard (maybe he has to take the black but he would never reach the Wall before his escort is ambushed and killed), we'd see some new marriage alliances (perhaps Tywin and Rhaella and Robb and Daenerys) but Robert becomes King and Viserys would have to settle for Prince of Dragonstone. Why would Stannis be put to death? He was Roberts heir at the time, having him as a hostage means Robert loses all leverage. Maybe Robert would be reckless and stupid enough to continue fighting but Jon Arryn wouldn´t, and neither would the northern lords accompanying Ned. The rebellion would be over right then and there, it´s just a matter of time until Robert has to accept it. Executing Stannis at that point would be wildly stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denam_Pavel Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 I don't see Stannis surrendering, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Tristan Flowers Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Denam_Pavel said: I don't see Stannis surrendering, ever. Stannis won´t need to surrender, Robert would. He´s just a pawn in this scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denam_Pavel Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Just now, Ser Tristan Flowers said: Stannis won´t need to surrender, Robert would. He´s just a pawn in this scenario. I mean Mace getting Stannis to willingly serve as a political prisoner for the remainder of the war in his own castle is a whole nother level of crazy the topic creator did not specify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMIFairy Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 13 minutes ago, Denam_Pavel said: I don't see Stannis surrendering, ever. Stannis gets the shits or whatever and dies. The soldiers revolt and kill him or throw him before Mace. He is weakened by hunger, has a dizzy spell, falls down the stairs and dies. The possibilities are endless. Yet Stannis NEVER SURRENDERS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Tristan Flowers Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Denam_Pavel said: I mean Mace getting Stannis to willingly serve as a political prisoner for the remainder of the war in his own castle is a whole nother level of crazy the topic creator did not specify. Willing prisoner? Serve? Whut? He´ll just be taken prisoner and thrown into a dark cell, there´s nothing Stannis would have to agree upon. No one ever agreed to be a political prisoner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denam_Pavel Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 8 minutes ago, Ser Tristan Flowers said: Willing prisoner? Serve? Whut? He´ll just be taken prisoner and thrown into a dark cell, there´s nothing Stannis would have to agree upon. No one ever agreed to be a political prisoner. As Tyrion says, everyone makes a choice to accept imprisonment. It might a choice between that and death but it's still a choice. And they'd need to take him prisoner first. The topic creator proposes Mace might do a massive assault, not a magically bloodless conquest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Tristan Flowers Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Denam_Pavel said: As Tyrion says, everyone makes a choice to accept imprisonment. It might a choice between that and death but it's still a choice. And they'd need to take him prisoner first. The topic creator proposes Mace might do a massive assault, Stannis would defend himself to the death. Fine, maybe he would. But then there´s still Renly, unless Stannis has him killed too, wich he actually might. If you have someones heir you have him by his balls. If either Stannis or Renly get captured, Robert is screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denam_Pavel Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, Ser Tristan Flowers said: Fine, maybe he would. But then there´s still Renly, unless Stannis has him killed too, wich he actually might. If you have someones heir you have him by his balls. If either Stannis or Renly get captured, Robert is screwed. Agreed. But Robert is wounded at the Trident and wouldn't be the one making the call here. And again, if it's before the Trident, Robert is screwed no matter what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Tristan Flowers Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Denam_Pavel said: Agreed. But Robert is wounded at the Trident and wouldn't be the one making the call here. And again, if it's before the Trident, Robert is screwed no matter what. And I´m pretty sure it would be way before the Trident. Why would they sit around for almost a year to THEN organize an assault after Rhaegar dies? That doesn´t make any sense. Sure, everyone would be starved and demoralized at that point, but assaulting Storms End is madness no matter what. If they´re going to do it, they´d do it when it counts, not after the fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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