TRILOGY

Season 8 Predictions?

592 posts in this topic

 

23 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I dunno, it's a possibility, but I actually thing that it could even be invented since I can't see a situation in which LF is completely defeated without resources in a trial (he is more intelligent for that to happen), and I can't see how they'd be all living together in WF with LF there with them.

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It is possible that GRRM told them that LF is killed through the machinations of Sansa... but didn't tell them how. So, they made up that abortion of a Winterfell plot in Season 7 because they didn't know how to write themselves out of that corner they put themselves into.

A part of me thinks that a lot of LF downfall will be tied into him coming face-to-face with the Stark sisters, or even just one of them, with possibly (f)Arya being involved, too. As for who kills him... either angry Vale lords or Sansa herself. It really doesn't feel like Arya's place to do it unless she is wearing the face of (f)Arya. That might explain why they had Sansa "pass the sentence" while Arya "swang the sword" in the show.

As none of these plot points made it into the TV show, they had to make stuff up involving god!Bran just telling them everything LF did and the three of them throwing a kangaroo court before Arya cuts his throat. I doubt Bran will even be involved in the LF plot in the books.

Edited by Faera

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44 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I dunno, it's a possibility, but I actually thing that it could even be invented since I can't see a situation in which LF is completely defeated without resources in a trial (he is more intelligent for that to happen), and I can't see how they'd be all living together in WF with LF there with them.

Not being able to see a situation and the situation not happening are two very different things. 

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38 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

Not being able to see a situation and the situation not happening are two very different things. 

Book-logic, wise, I guess the way to get LF into Winterfell would mean him his big plan to marry 'Alayne Stone' to that arse Harrold Hardyng, reveal her to be Sansa Stark and then rally the Vale to help her recover her birthright would need to happen. Then they take the Vale army to the North, team up with Stannis, the Northern lords (who might already have Ricken and/or resurrected Jon with them) and then they all take Winterfell, during which several characters such as Harry die in the battle. Boom, done. Then again, announced plans seldom come to fruition so it probably isn't happening.

Plus, you still need to get Bran out of that cave and in the book I don't see that being the hurried mess it was on the show. As I said before, I don't think he'd be part of the LF takedown in the books. Aaaaaaaaaaand we need to get Arya back to T7K. Not sure how that'll happen since Arya's Bravos plot in the show was wacko-loco.

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1 hour ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I dunno, it's a possibility, but I actually thing that it could even be invented since I can't see a situation in which LF is completely defeated without resources in a trial (he is more intelligent for that to happen), and I can't see how they'd be all living together in WF with LF there with them.

If LF does indeed help the Starks with the Vale army in the books, it is possible for them to be living in WF with LF. And if the trial does happen, it is possible that the Vale lords go against LF once they learn he murdered Lysa. Even in the books, he doesn't have too many allies in the Vale currently and so he is just as vulnerable (although I haven't read any of the Winds chapter so I could be wrong).

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4 minutes ago, Faera said:

Book-logic, wise, I guess the way to get LF into Winterfell would mean him his big plan to marry 'Alayne Stone' to that arse Harrold Hardyng, reveal her to be Sansa Stark and then rally the Vale to help her recover her birthright would need to happen. Then they take the Vale army to the North, team up with Stannis, the Northern lords (who might already have Ricken and/or resurrected Jon with them) and then they all take Winterfell, during which several characters such as Harry die in the battle. Boom, done. Then again, announced plans seldom come to fruition so it probably isn't happening.

Plus, you still need to get Bran out of that cave and in the book I don't see that being the hurried mess it was on the show. As I said before, I don't think he'd be part of the LF takedown in the books. Aaaaaaaaaaand we need to get Arya back to T7K. Not sure how that'll happen since Arya's Bravos plot in the show was wacko-loco.

Boom. There it is. 

Lots of people were actually predicting LF riding North with the Vale Knights as part of the winterfell end game back in 2013/2014 so its def a possibility that seemed plausible to people. 

Regarding Arya, who knows how it happens. But she is coming back. As is Bran most likely. 

Its way to early to see though how it goes down sinc at this point in the show we are in ADOS material. So at least a whole book past where we are. That is assuming GRRM can actually finish in two books. We could be two books from where GRRM finished if he has to expand to 8. 

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10 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

 That is assuming GRRM can actually finish in two books. We could be two books from where GRRM finished if he has to expand to 8. 

Do we have any indication there might be 8 books? Is there an update that I might have missed?

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11 minutes ago, Apoplexy said:

Do we have any indication there might be 8 books? Is there an update that I might have missed?

Nothing official. 

This reddit post makes a pretty good case for why it will be necessary. 

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27 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

Regarding Arya, who knows how it happens. But she is coming back. As is Bran most likely. 

 

I agree they'll come back though I think the LF "slumdunk" will probably be very different. For one, it probably won't involve Bran but another character who can exposit more solid information. It really needs to be about people getting together and tumbling over the chaotic house of cards LF has built. Show probably used Bran as a means to plug a gap in the writing due to all the dropped plot lines, hence why his powers now allow him to see anything he wants rather than stuff recorded on Weirwood TiVo.

As I said in my earlier post, Jeyne Poole might be a good start as someone genuinely affected by LF. She has clearly seen that horrible side of him. I mean, she's a noble girl who was thrown into a brothel and forced into prostitution by him until he found another use for her and gave her over to the Boltons. Plus, if (f)Arya is shipped off to Bravos once she gets to the Wall and real Arya somehow acquires her face from the House of the Undying, she would "inherit" all of Jeyne's memories of what happened to her.

Then we have Sweetrobin and the Vale lords who all hate him anyway and are probably itching for an excuse to get rid of him. Frankly, I could see all of this just going down in the Vale. No need for Winterfell. But getting LF to Winterfell where most - if not all - the Starklings are in residence, or at least passing through (given they have their own plot-lines to follow in the book that are more complex than in the show, I don't think Bran or Arya would be hanging out long there before they're off somewhere else), isn't all that hard.

It is literally LF plan to acquire Winterfell using Sansa and the Vale army.

Edited by Faera

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11 minutes ago, Faera said:

I agree they'll come back though I think the LF "slumdunk" will probably be very different. For one, it probably won't involve Bran but another character who can exposit more solid information. It really needs to be about people getting together and tumbling over the chaotic house of cards LF has built. Show probably used Bran as a means to plug a gap in the writing due to all the dropped plot lines, hence why his powers now allow him to see anything he wants rather than stuff recorded on Weirwood TiVo.

As I said in my earlier post, Jeyne Poole might be a good start as someone genuinely affected by LF. She has clearly seen that horrible side of him. I mean, she's a noble girl who was thrown into a brothel and forced into prostitution by him until he found another use for her and gave her over to the Boltons. Plus, if (f)Arya is shipped off to Bravos once she gets to the Wall and real Arya somehow acquires her face from the House of the Undying, she would "inherit" all of Jeyne's memories of what happened to her.

Then we have Sweetrobin and the Vale lords who all hate him anyway and are probably itching for an excuse to get rid of him. Frankly, I could see all of this just going down in the Vale. No need for Winterfell. But getting LF to Winterfell where most - if not all - the Starklings are in residence, or at least passing through (given they have their own plot-lines to follow in the book that are more complex than in the show, I don't think Bran or Arya would be hanging out long there before they're off somewhere else), isn't all that hard.

It is literally LF plan to acquire Winterfell using Sansa and the Vale army.

No idea how it goes down. 

All I am willing to say is Sansa will bring him down in the books as she did in the show. There is even foreshadowing for that. Whether her siblings will be involved I don’t have a good view. Still way too soon to say I think.

Most likely they will not be would be my guess. But who knows. If there is going to be a major battle at Winterfell against the Others than makes sense all the Starks will be there for that. 

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Bran is a "wildcard" for me, as in I'm not really sure what to predict about him. I'm not at all sure whether he will snap out of the 3ER-mode before the series ends or not. Given the mental trauma he's actually been trough since becoming the 3ER (let alone being able to see all the horrors of the world, past and present), I doubt seeing Jamie again will be enough to somehow make him become normal. That would be like a piss in the Mississippi.

If anything the only thing that should clear his mind is the defeat of the NK, as that seems to be Bran/3ER's sole purpose at this time. They might go with the "magic is dissipating"-route when the show nears completion, with dead NK, WW's and dragons. No need for an all-knowing magical being like the 3ER in a future void of magical beings and magic in general. 

Sadly, I'm also in a spot where I don't really care about Bran anymore. Sorry book-readers, I know some of you really like him (I get the impression he's more interesting in the books), but as someone who's only watched the show, Bran makes me feel "...meh".
I've found his arc (despite knowing that it''s really important) to be incredibly dull and boring ever since season 3.
As of season 7, I don't really care about Brans endgame; I don't really care if he survives or dies, or remains the robotic 3ER or reverts back to Bran. If the showrunners wanted me to feel indifferent about Bran then congratulations to them, they succeeded. :/
At this point I want Bran to survive mostly due to the fact that some characters I do care about (Jon, Arya, Sansa) would react negatively to his death.

 

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38 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Bran is a "wildcard" for me, as in I'm not really sure what to predict about him. I'm not at all sure whether he will snap out of the 3ER-mode before the series ends or not. Given the mental trauma he's actually been trough since becoming the 3ER (let alone being able to see all the horrors of the world, past and present), I doubt seeing Jamie again will be enough to somehow make him become normal. That would be like a piss in the Mississippi.

If anything the only thing that should clear his mind is the defeat of the NK, as that seems to be Bran/3ER's sole purpose at this time. They might go with the "magic is dissipating"-route when the show nears completion, with dead NK, WW's and dragons. No need for an all-knowing magical being like the 3ER in a future void of magical beings and magic in general. 

Sadly, I'm also in a spot where I don't really care about Bran anymore. Sorry book-readers, I know some of you really like him (I get the impression he's more interesting in the books), but as someone who's only watched the show, Bran makes me feel "...meh".
I've found his arc (despite knowing that it''s really important) to be incredibly dull and boring ever since season 3.
As of season 7, I don't really care about Brans endgame; I don't really care if he survives or dies, or remains the robotic 3ER or reverts back to Bran. If the showrunners wanted me to feel indifferent about Bran then congratulations to them, they succeeded. :/
At this point I want Bran to survive mostly due to the fact that some characters I do care about (Jon, Arya, Sansa) would react negatively to his death.

 

To be absolutely honest, I'm not sure you'd care for Bran after reading the books if you didn't care for him after watching the show. His chapters are certainly more interesting in the books, but Bran doesn't too much interesting in the books. I know bookreaders who are just as indifferent to Bran as you are.

For me, I root for the Starks so I root for Bran too. He was crippled very early in his life, which is why I would like him to have some kind of happiness in the end, if thats possible now.

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8 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

Bran is a "wildcard" for me, as in I'm not really sure what to predict about him

Yeah, me neither. I'm operating right now under the assumption that Sansa will end up with Winterfell and Arya will wind up setting off on her own, maybe even going west of Westeros--since that seems to be where both characters are headed as of S7--but I don't know where that leaves Bran. Is he just going to chill at Winterfell plugged into the weirwood Internet? 

On the LF/Sansa issue: I don't know that GRRM told D&D anything about LF's death other than "Sansa outmaneuvres him and orders his execution." Having Arya and Bran in the mix seems like a show-only thing.

Edited by Newstar

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8 hours ago, Apoplexy said:

To be absolutely honest, I'm not sure you'd care for Bran after reading the books if you didn't care for him after watching the show. His chapters are certainly more interesting in the books, but Bran doesn't too much interesting in the books. I know bookreaders who are just as indifferent to Bran as you are.

For me, I root for the Starks so I root for Bran too. He was crippled very early in his life, which is why I would like him to have some kind of happiness in the end, if thats possible now.

I thought Bran was pretty boring in the books. 

I actually like him in the show because the actor looks like a cool dude. I am ok with where the show has taken him in becoming the 3ER with the old Bran fading away. Its sad that he lost himself in order to gain all this power to save humanity, but that is the type of stuff that happens in this story. People don’t acquire great power without cost and his cost was his identity. For a 3rd tier character, its interesting enough. 

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14 minutes ago, Newstar said:

Yeah, me neither. I'm operating right now under the assumption that Sansa will end up with Winterfell and Arya will wind up setting off on her own, maybe even going west of Westeros--since that seems to be where both characters are headed as of S7--but I don't know where that leaves Bran. Is he just going to chill at Winterfell plugged into the weirwood Internet? 

On the LF/Sansa issue: I don't know that GRRM told D&D anything about LF's death other than "Sansa outmaneuvres him and orders his execution." Having Arya and Bran in the mix seems like a show-only thing.

I was actually wondering over the weekend that it would be pretty funny if Arya ends up Lady of Winterfell - but rules like a lord not a lady - because she would hate it so much after Sansa dies. That a big chunk of season 7 was foreshadowing the Arya as the rulling lord idea and that the forwshadowing for Sansa’s death was starting us in the face this whole time - Lady dying back at the beggining of the story. 

Grey Wind Dead - Robb dead

Shaggydog dead - Rickon dead

Summer dead - Bran dead (“you died in that cave”) 

Lady dead - ???? 

I think its highly unlikely but talk about a curve ball no one is really expecting since everyone just assumes Sansa is safe. 

But back in the original outline when Sansa actually had Joffrey’s kid, i don’t think she was the end game lady of winterfell. 

Edited by jcmontea

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On 9/1/2017 at 10:46 PM, Angel Eyes said:

1. An Umber will march behind a Glover "The bloody Wall will melt before an Umber marches behind a Glover"

2. Cleganebowl

3. Jaime will kill Cersei.

4. Arya will marry Gendry if they survive.

5. Daenerys will die giving birth to her and Jon's child and Jon and Sansa will raise the child.

 

Also Jon will marry Sansa. :-)

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10 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

Bran is a "wildcard" for me, as in I'm not really sure what to predict about him. I'm not at all sure whether he will snap out of the 3ER-mode before the series ends or not.

He will, everything has to come to an end. 

Bran: Lord of Winterfell.

"History repeats itself and just like Ned once became the Lord of Winterfell despite being the second son of his House, now his second son is the current heir of Winterfell, only that son is named Brandon (Bran) and the circle is complete with Winterfell belonging once again to a Brandon." Source

Edited by TRILOGY

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14 minutes ago, TRILOGY said:

He will, everything has to come to an end. 

Bran: Lord of Winterfell.

"History repeats itself and just like Ned once became the Lord of Winterfell despite being the second son of his House, now his second son is the current heir of Winterfell, only that son is named Brandon (Bran) and the circle is complete with Winterfell belonging once again to a Brandon." Source

Could happen.

i am slightly skeptical of that though. As of now Bran seems the best candidate for the Frodo role - the person so permanently changed by the quest he can never go home again. 

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22 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

Could happen.

i am slightly skeptical of that though. As of now Bran seems the best candidate for the Frodo role - the person so permanently changed by the quest he can never go home again. 

Bran needs to find some peace after the war but he doesn't need to leave WF for that, and Frodo actually served as Mayor of Michel Delving for a little bit? 

Books: "So long as those remained, Winterfell remained. It was not dead, just broken. Like me, he thought. I’m not dead either."

Season 6: "You won't be here forever. You won't be an old man in a tree."

Season 7: "You're Father's last living trueborn son. You're Lord of Winterfell now."

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3 hours ago, jcmontea said:

I was actually wondering over the weekend that it would be pretty funny if Arya ends up Lady of Winterfell - but rules like a lord not a lady - because she would hate it so much after Sansa dies. That a big chunk of season 7 was foreshadowing the Arya as the rulling lord idea and that the forwshadowing for Sansa’s death was starting us in the face this whole time - Lady dying back at the beggining of the story. 

I thought Arya's encounter with Nymeria and the writers' comments about the scene pointed in the opposite direction: Arya will reject domestication and life in a castle, just as Nymeria did.

 

Quote

But back in the original outline when Sansa actually had Joffrey’s kid, i don’t think she was the end game lady of winterfell. 

Me, neither, which is why I previously dismissed the possibility. However, in the show, if Jon is endgame king, if Arya rejects a settled life at Winterfell in favour of adventurous wandering (as Nymeria did), and if Bran maintains his "I can never be lord of Winterfell" stance, which is where things to be heading at the moment, whom does that leave except the person who's already running Winterfell and doing a decent job of it (or at least so the writers want us to think)?

I'm not ruling out a shocking demise for Sansa--anything's possible--but right now, the show seems to have positioned her as the most likely candidate for endgame Lady of Winterfell.

As for the outline, the original outline also seemed to be hinting pretty strongly at endgame Jon/Arya (a mutual passion that would torment them until Jon's parentage is revealed in the then-final volume), which is looking increasingly unlikely in the show, so it's hard to know what GRRM has changed and what he has kept. (Ditto for the "five surviving characters.") He has insisted that he has kept the ending the same for the major characters since the beginning (and in particular Jon, Arya and Tyrion), but if he at one point wanted Jon and Arya to end up together and subsequently changed his mind about it, then GRRM's insistence that he has always had the same ending in mind for the leads is obviously unreliable.

It's possible that GRRM planned to kill off Sansa in 1993 but subsequently decided to spare her and decided to make her endgame Lady of Winterfell. It's also possible that he always planned to kill Sansa off and all he has done in ASOIAF is delay her death until the last part of the series as opposed to killing her off fairly early on as the outline suggests. I think we'll only know for certain once Season 8 airs, since her endgame in the show will be roughly the same as in the books.

 

34 minutes ago, TRILOGY said:

Season 7: "You're Father's last living trueborn son. You're Lord of Winterfell now."

Except that Bran answers that he can't be LOW, he can never be lord of anything. Like Arya's "That's not me," if anything, it's anti-foreshadowing. 

...To be fair, though, "never" is a tricky word in ASOIAF.

Edited by Newstar

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3 hours ago, jcmontea said:

I thought Bran was pretty boring in the books. 

I actually like him in the show because the actor looks like a cool dude. I am ok with where the show has taken him in becoming the 3ER with the old Bran fading away. Its sad that he lost himself in order to gain all this power to save humanity, but that is the type of stuff that happens in this story. People don’t acquire great power without cost and his cost was his identity. For a 3rd tier character, its interesting enough. 

Yeah, it is sad that Bran had to lose his mobility and a part of himself to acquire his powers.

I liked Bran in the books. I enjoyed reading about the world beyond the wall. As for his role in the endgame, I think he is extremely important considering he was the first POV character in the first book. I think he will be crucial in defeating the NK.

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