Swordsmanship of Visenya Targaryen

[aryagonnakill#2]

6 minutes ago, Aegon1FanBoy said:

Of course their bias everyone is biased when it comes to sword skill, but people seem to think Aegon just wasn't all that because he had Balerion i mean Maegor had Balerion and i rank him in the S class of fighters in westeros history 

I agree that having a dragon does not mean someone could/would not be a good swordsmen.  If you intend on conquering a martial society, you should be a martial man yourself.

[Ralphis Baratheon]

I wonder if Rhaenys had a VS sword herself, even if it was more for ceremonial purposes. Aegon and Visenya both had one along with a dragon, why not Rhaenys too? Perhaps her VS sword was lost when she and her dragon fell in Dorne,and House Uller still has her sword.

Also wasn't Orys Baratheon Aegon's "champion" and "shield?" Then his general that led his grown forces? Wouldn't it be possible for him to have a VS sword/weapon as well? Perhaps House Wyl took it along with his hand.

[PrinceHenryris]

Visenya, according to the World Book, trained beside her brother from an early age.  Other than size and strength differences, she might have been as good or better than her brother.

Visenya also carried Dark Sister.  To me, while Blackfyre was the sword of kings, Dark Sister was the sword that the true badasses carried.  We know of four people who carried Dark Sister - Visenya, Daemon Targaryen, Aemon the Dragonknight and Bloodraven.  I wouldn't want to make my career fighting any of them.

 

[Lord Varys]

The reason why Aegon was likely not all that great a warrior simply is because nobody ever mentions him fighting great duels or fights with his sword nor did he enjoy fighting in tourneys or continue to hone his skills as a fighter after he had taken his throne. The man conquered a huge realm in his mid-twenties. He had better and more important things to do than to spend his precious time in the practice yard.

Kings don't need to fight with their own hands. They have men doing that for them. They have to look the part, not actually fulfill it. Even in dire situations - like the crisis Aegon V faced during the Laughing Storm's rebellion - a king is not forced to fight with his own hands. The idea that Aegon continued to keep himself in the shape he was in during the Wars of the Conquest is very unlikely.

All those mighty Targaryen warriors - like Maegor, Daemon, Aemond, Aemon, Daemon Blackfyre, Baelor Breakspear, Maekar, Aerion, etc. - trailed at arms and became great while they had no other responsibilities (yet). An idle prince can spent his entire day in the practice yard. He usually has no other responsibilities. A king has. The idea that men who rose to the kingship early - like Jaehaerys I, Aegon III, Daeron I, or even Aerys II - had the time to focus excessively on their training at arms makes little sense.

Those who had the talent would have been pretty good, better than average, even, but that's it. And that's likely the league the famous Conqueror was in, too.

If you are king and spend as much time in the practice yard as Jon Snow does in ADwD - when he is already Lord Commander of the Night's Watch - you will inevitably be a lousy king. Ruling a kingdom is hard and tiresome work. His obsession with his martial prowess already crippled Jon's ability to be the best commander he could possibly be - and the management of the Seven Kingdoms are a much greater task.

[Ralphis Baratheon]

33 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

If you are king and spend as much time in the practice yard as Jon Snow does in ADwD - when he is already Lord Commander of the Night's Watch - you will inevitably be a lousy king. Ruling a kingdom is hard and tiresome work. His obsession with his martial prowess already crippled Jon's ability to be the best commander he could possibly be - and the management of the Seven Kingdoms are a much greater task.

  Had to find a way to take it there? You never disappoint Lord Varys.

[Lord Varys]

2 minutes ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

  Had to find a way to take it there? You never disappoint Lord Varys.

That was really just an example. It also happens to illustrate what I consider to be a flaw in Jon's leadership abilities.

But I could also have cited Robert's obsession with hunting and whoring (and whatever else he does to keep himself away from his own throne room and council chamber), Aerys I's obsession with obscure scrolls, Baelor's obsessive piety, causing him to spend days in a sept, etc.

But we are talking about the issue of martial prowess here, and it is quite clear that being a lord or king is actual tiresome work, especially if you try to your best. Wasting your time with honing your skills at arms when your duties lie elsewhere is just nonsense.

Ned is only in his thirties - and there is no indication that the man spends any time in the practice yard. Not as Lord of Winterfell and most definitely not as Hand of the King.

Leaders have to inspire loyalty in others and convince them to fight for them - they don't have to give the impression they could kill pretty much any foe in some form of ritualistic single combat. You should be able to use swords, lances, etc. the proper way. It is an advantage if you are respected as a warrior and a knight. But that's not a prerequisite to be a great king.

But there is really no harm done if the singers and chroniclers make great kings also into great warriors. It looks really fine on paper, doesn't it?

I don't doubt Jaehaerys I was a decent warrior. He had Dark Sister, and they may have been ample time for training while he and his mother and sister were hiding from Maegor. And he may even have spent a lot of time during his minority as king in the practice yard. But once this man took charge of his kingdom at the age of sixteen chances are not that good that his main focus lay on his skills at arms.

It might be that the glory and fame of winning tourneys was important to him in his youth - say, the remainder of his teens - but considering that he became the great peace-loving and conciliatory king we know he became the idea that this man enjoying feats of arms for their own sake is pretty unlikely.

And it is similar with the Conqueror. The man never rode in tourneys or fought in meleés. What would his reason to be to continue to hone his skills at arms after he had taken the burden on himself to rule Seven Kingdoms and make them one? His Wars of Conquests also show that he wasn't keen on killing people or eradicating bloodlines and families. Everyone who bent the knee was welcomed back in his king's peace. That is not the character of a man whose heart was truly into being a warrior.

[Universal Sword Donor]

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

The reason why Aegon was likely not all that great a warrior simply is because nobody ever mentions him fighting great duels or fights with his sword nor did he enjoy fighting in tourneys or continue to hone his skills as a fighter after he had taken his throne. The man conquered a huge realm in his mid-twenties. He had better and more important things to do than to spend his precious time in the practice yard.

Kings don't need to fight with their own hands. They have men doing that for them. They have to look the part, not actually fulfill it. Even in dire situations - like the crisis Aegon V faced during the Laughing Storm's rebellion - a king is not forced to fight with his own hands. The idea that Aegon continued to keep himself in the shape he was in during the Wars of the Conquest is very unlikely.

All those mighty Targaryen warriors - like Maegor, Daemon, Aemond, Aemon, Daemon Blackfyre, Baelor Breakspear, Maekar, Aerion, etc. - trailed at arms and became great while they had no other responsibilities (yet). An idle prince can spent his entire day in the practice yard. He usually has no other responsibilities. A king has. The idea that men who rose to the kingship early - like Jaehaerys I, Aegon III, Daeron I, or even Aerys II - had the time to focus excessively on their training at arms makes little sense.

Those who had the talent would have been pretty good, better than average, even, but that's it. And that's likely the league the famous Conqueror was in, too.

If you are king and spend as much time in the practice yard as Jon Snow does in ADwD - when he is already Lord Commander of the Night's Watch - you will inevitably be a lousy king. Ruling a kingdom is hard and tiresome work. His obsession with his martial prowess already crippled Jon's ability to be the best commander he could possibly be - and the management of the Seven Kingdoms are a much greater task.

Aegon was 27 when he led his forces to conquer Westeros.

Literally everyone in that list became a noted warrior well before that. How you can reconcile him not becoming a great warrior before then? I won't argue that someone who doesn't maintain their skills is obviously going to see them decline, but the statement "Aegon was counted as one of the greatest knights (or whatever) of his age" is in no way shape or form false. Even if he had gotten worse at fighting, he was that good once. Michael Jordan is no longer the best basketball player in the world, but he's known to the world as the best basketball player of all time.

[Lord Varys]

1 hour ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Aegon was 27 when he led his forces to conquer Westeros.

No, he was 25. Aegon the Conqueror was born 27 BC on Dragonstone, but the Wars of Conquest began two years before the Conquest. The date of the Conquest is the completion of the Conquest - Aegon's second coronation in Oldtown.

That is a common misconception.

1 hour ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Literally everyone in that list became a noted warrior well before that. How you can reconcile him not becoming a great warrior before then? I won't argue that someone who doesn't maintain their skills is obviously going to see them decline, but the statement "Aegon was counted as one of the greatest knights (or whatever) of his age" is in no way shape or form false. Even if he had gotten worse at fighting, he was that good once. Michael Jordan is no longer the best basketball player in the world, but he's known to the world as the best basketball player of all time.

Aegon's great feats of arms include slaying a fool dressed up as the Toland champion and killing the pretender Qhorin Volmark. If a man doesn't win glory and fame in tourneys, meleés, duels, trials-by-combat, or battles where he personal slays notable warriors in combat then the claim that he is a great warrior is meaningless.

How can you be a great warrior if you didn't do any of the things great warriors do in this world?

When we compare that to the really great warriors - Maegor the Cruel, Daemon and Aemon Targaryen, Jaime Lannister, Gregor Clegane, Oberyn Martell, Barristan Selmy, Duncan the Tall, etc. we do know a lot of what they actually did. And knowing that means we really do know what they did to be called great warriors.

For Aegon the Conqueror and Jaehaerys I we have no such examples. And that's why I consider talk like that flattery until it is proven that these two guys were truly great warriors.

I don't think they were bad. I think they were average or better than average, but not really great.

[Universal Sword Donor]

5 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

No, he was 25. Aegon the Conqueror was born 27 BC on Dragonstone, but the Wars of Conquest began two years before the Conquest. The date of the Conquest is the completion of the Conquest - Aegon's second coronation in Oldtown.

That is a common misconception.

Thanks for the correction but it's ultimately irrelevant.

5 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Aegon's great feats of arms include slaying a fool dressed up as the Toland champion and killing the pretender Qhorin Volmark. If a man doesn't win glory and fame in tourneys, meleés, duels, trials-by-combat, or battles where he personal slays notable warriors in combat then the claim that he is a great warrior is meaningless.

Oh ok. I didn't realize you were the final arbiter. That makes is easy then, doesn't it.

5 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

How can you be a great warrior if you didn't do any of the things great warriors do in this world?

When we compare that to the really great warriors - Maegor the Cruel, Daemon and Aemon Targaryen, Jaime Lannister, Gregor Clegane, Oberyn Martell, Barristan Selmy, Duncan the Tall, etc. we do know a lot of what they actually did. And knowing that means we really do know what they did to be called great warriors.

For Aegon the Conqueror and Jaehaerys I we have no such examples. And that's why I consider talk like that flattery until it is proven that these two guys were truly great warriors.

I don't think they were bad. I think they were average or better than average, but not really great.

Yeah you don't really have anything other than supposition. The WOIAF is written from notes of maesters but assembled by one who would have no reason to flatter the Targaryens. The only evidence either way of Aegon being a great warrior or a bad warrior is that, and it says he's a great warrior who kept to himself and didn't glorify fighting.

Personal head- canon is just that, personal. What skimpy evidence we have points well in the other direction. We barely know anything about Aegon. Maybe we'll find some more out later.

[Lord Varys]

6 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Thanks for the correction but it's ultimately irrelevant.

I agree. But it is you who brought that whole thing up, didn't you?

6 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Oh ok. I didn't realize you were the final arbiter. That makes is easy then, doesn't it.

Don't you agree with my assessment there? I don't think it is controversial that a man praised as a great warrior who apparently didn't do any great feat of arms isn't really a great warrior. That's like calling a guy a great scientist whose contributions to science are either unknown or pretty mediocre.

If that kind of stuff convinces you, I really don't understand your reasoning there.

6 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Yeah you don't really have anything other than supposition. The WOIAF is written from notes of maesters but assembled by one who would have no reason to flatter the Targaryens.

Yandel and Gyldayn's sources on Aegon the Conqueror are, most likely, written mostly by men who flattered and adored the Targaryens. When Gyldayn wrote his history the Targaryens had ruled for about 250 years. And he seems to have been a Targaryen man. And it is actually addressed by Yandel himself that Aegon the Dragon and his sister-wives have been made into figures larger than life by those singers Queen Rhaenys entertained and patronized.

This fact makes the work of historians like Yandel and Gyldayn difficult because they have trouble separating fact from fiction (or exaggeration). It doesn't seem to be as bad as it is with the Andal conquest (like the Battle of the Seven Stars or the brave heroics of the Hungry Wolf) but our historian himself is aware that his sources on the early Targaryens aren't as sound as they could be.

6 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

The only evidence either way of Aegon being a great warrior or a bad warrior is that, and it says he's a great warrior who kept to himself and didn't glorify fighting.

Again, there is an implicit contradiction there. How do you know that somebody is great fighter if he didn't do any great feats of arms? It is meaningless - or at least a highly problematic assertion - if you have no facts to back up such a claim.

I'm not saying Aegon was a bad fighter, I'm just saying there is no indication to believe that he was really as great as the singers and sycophants made him appear.

[Universal Sword Donor]

2 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I agree. But it is you who brought that whole thing up, didn't you?

The difference in ages is ultimately irrelevant. People listed by yourself were well under 25 when they became great warriors.

2 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Again, there is an implicit contradiction there. How do you know that somebody is great fighter if he didn't do any great feats of arms? It is meaningless - or at least a highly problematic assertion - if you have no facts to back up such a claim.

I'm not saying Aegon was a bad fighter, I'm just saying there is no indication to believe that he was really as great as the singers and sycophants made him appear.

The long and short of it is that his sobriquet is "The Conqueror", not "the dragonknight"or something similar, for a reason. He's modeled off of William the Conqueror. No matter how good of fighter he was, it was always going to play second fiddle to his kingship, much like it did for Richard the Lionheart or Freidrich Barbarossa. The only kings we see solving problems through fighting are Maegor and Maekar, and they both nearly died doing it (or did). Aegon had Balerion and pragmatism, really no need for fighting the kind of duels they did nor  entering the lists or fighting battles on foot. 

We have the words of people who were ostensibly alive at the time and have nothing to the contrary. We have no one calling him a bad warrior or even average or anything less. You have every right to be skeptical but you actually have nothing to dispute it. Given that GRRM constantly alludes to warriors, his descendants no less, who were true "heirs of the dragon" and his love of parallelism, I am going to side with what the books he wrote or provided the source material to said. 

[Lord Varys]

22 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

The difference in ages is ultimately irrelevant. People listed by yourself were well under 25 when they became great warriors.

Sure. And I'd say that if Aegon the Dragon was a great warrior doing remarkable deeds of arms it would most likely have been in youth on Dragonstone. That's when the his blood would have run the hottest, when he might have felt the need to prove himself in the practice yard and at tourneys (assuming he ever attended one). 

He also may have been fought some men when he took Balerion to Essos to fight the Volantenes. But what we know indicates he just burned their ships from above, never encountering any Volantenes in close combat.

22 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

The long and short of it is that his sobriquet is "The Conqueror", not "the dragonknight"or something similar, for a reason. He's modeled off of William the Conqueror. No matter how good of fighter he was, it was always going to play second fiddle to his kingship, much like it did for Richard the Lionheart or Freidrich Barbarossa. The only kings we see solving problems through fighting are Maegor and Maekar, and they both nearly died doing it (or did). Aegon had Balerion and pragmatism, really no need for fighting the kind of duels they did nor  entering the lists or fighting battles on foot. 

Thinking about that - the term 'warrior' does also include generals and commanders, right? You don't have to be great fighter in close combat to be hailed as a 'warrior without peer' or anything like that if you conquer an entire continent with your armies, right?

Nobody ever praised Alexander the Great or Caesar for their personal feats at arms yet they clearly are seen as warriors without peer (or even heroes who accomplished literal impossible things) by history and legend.

Aegon very much fits in that category.

22 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

We have the words of people who were ostensibly alive at the time and have nothing to the contrary. We have no one calling him a bad warrior or even average or anything less. You have every right to be skeptical but you actually have nothing to dispute it. Given that GRRM constantly alludes to warriors, his descendants no less, who were true "heirs of the dragon" and his love of parallelism, I am going to side with what the books he wrote or provided the source material to said. 

George also very much implies that 'the Dragon' may not have had any heirs at all. King Aenys is reputed to have been a bastard, and if that is true then 'the Dragon' has nothing to do with 'the heirs of the Dragon'. They are still the blood of the dragon through Queen Rhaenys, but Aegon would have as much to do with Aenys and Jaehaerys and their descendants as Robert had with his so-called children.

The author really likes to play with his creations and tweak them a little bit. 

Let us compare Aegon to the Targaryen who seems to resemble him the most - Rhaegar. Was Rhaegar truly a great warrior (both in the sense of a great fighter as well as a great general)? I honestly don't think so. Rhaegar had a lot of potential. He was apparently smart and excelled at everything he put his mind on, eventually becoming a great tourney knight. But he only fought in one battle. And he lost that battle.

If you compare him to Robert he loses on both accounts. The man was a better fighter than Robert - being physically stronger than Rhaegar - and he was a much better general than Rhaeger, winning the deciding battle and spearheading a successful rebellion for about a year against overwhelming odds.

[Ralphis Baratheon]

10 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

What would his reason to be to continue to hone his skills at arms after he had taken the burden on himself to rule Seven Kingdoms and make them one?

One could argue sword sparring is not only a good way to exercise, but one of the preferred ways for male nobles in a martial society . Physical exercise can result in stress relief and clearing ones head, which I imagine would be helpful in a stressful job such as King. Also being in good physical shape can lead to a longer life span, though I'm not sure that is known even by Maesters in this universe. 

Should kings or queens train two hours a day against the Kingsguard? No, probably not.  Should they get in a good sweat by sparring a few times a week if they want too? I don't see why not. If the exercise helps them make better decisions and be a better King/Queen then I say go for it. As long as they don't use hunting, sparring or riding as a way of getting out of ruling like Robert I don't see the harm in it.

[Lord Varys]

5 minutes ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

One could argue sword sparring is not only a good way to exercise, but one of the preferred ways for male nobles in a martial society . Physical exercise can result in stress relief and clearing ones head, which I imagine would be helpful in a stressful job such as King. Also being in good physical shape can lead to a longer life span, though I'm not sure that is known even by Maesters in this universe. 

The back side of that coin is that the ridiculous recreations of the knights and squires also greatly increases that you die in a ridiculous freak accident or get injured for no good reason. Kingdoms suffer greatly if men like Baelor Breakspear die in tourneys...

There is nothing wrong with exercising occasionally, but to become really great - like Aegon supposedly was and Jon Snow tries to be - you have to spend a lot of time practicing each day which most definitely is the wrong thing to do if you are also ruling Seven Kingdoms.

Even a man like Maegor would no longer have practiced as much after he had become king. He wouldn't have had the time. He had all the time while he was living the lazy life of a pampered prince. But if you wear a crown you cannot be lazy. Especially not if you are faced with a lot of challenges.

Ruling only for six years, Maegor's prowess most likely didn't change all that much during his reign. But Robert's obviously did. The man we meet in AGoT is a joke if compared to the man who defeated Rhaegar at the Trident. He is still a big man, but that's it. If he lost a lot of weight he could, perhaps, have reacquired his old skills - like Edward IV, the king Robert is based on, did when he had to fight for his crown a second time - but if the ruin we meet in AGoT had been forced to fight in a battle or duel he would have sucked hard.

5 minutes ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Should kings or queens train two hours a day against the Kingsguard? No, probably not.  Should they get in a good sweat by sparring a few times a week if they want too? I don't see why not. If the exercise helps them make better decisions and be a better King/Queen then I say go for it. As long as they don't use hunting, sparring or riding as a way of getting out of ruling like Robert I don't see the harm in it.

Even if they don't want to run away from responsibility - a few hours in the yard are few hours not in the council chamber or throne room. Decisions have to be made. Things are always discussed. People plot the entire time. In a sense, the king is always at the center of things, but if he doesn't drag his councilors within into the yard, he is not going to be at the center of the decision-making process. And that's a bad thing if you are the king.

If we go back to the Jon Snow example - Marsh and his buddies got hours and hours to complain and plot with like-minded people while Jon was sweating in the yard. If Jon had kept such people either close or occupied with a shit load of work (which he later demanded reports about), etc. things would have gone very different. 

If you want to be in control you have to be in control. All the time. And you can't do that if you live you personal dreams or indulge in your obsessions. Dany's obsession with Daario and their subsequent romance is distracting her very much. Monarchs and other rulers really have no time for shit like that in a world as dangerous and unforgiving as Martinworld. At least not in tense or potentially dangerous situations.

[Ralphis Baratheon]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

The back side of that coin is that the ridiculous recreations of the knights and squires also greatly increases that you die in a ridiculous freak accident or get injured for no good reason. Kingdoms suffer greatly if men like Baelor Breakspear die in tourneys...

I'm thinking more of some light sparring with an experienced master-at-arms or KG. The types they trained with before they became king who are good enough to not harm their king. Not a Trail by Combat like Baelor Breakspear died in.

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

There is nothing wrong with exercising occasionally, but to become really great - like Aegon supposedly was and Jon Snow tries to be - you have to spend a lot of time practicing each day which most definitely is the wrong thing to do if you are also ruling Seven Kingdoms.

That's why I'm giving a reason for why a king might continue sparring once they are king. I'm not suggesting they should try to become the best in the realm. Only they break a sweat while keeping their eyes sharp against experienced trusted Knights once in awhile if it clears their mind.

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

Ruling only for six years, Maegor's prowess most likely didn't change all that much during his reign. But Robert's obviously did. The man we meet in AGoT is a joke if compared to the man who defeated Rhaegar at the Trident. He is still a big man, but that's it. If he lost a lot of weight he could, perhaps, have reacquired his old skills - like Edward IV, the king Robert is based on, did when he had to fight for his crown a second time - but if the ruin we meet in AGoT had been forced to fight in a battle or duel he would have sucked hard.

So are you saying Robert should have kept training in arms? While the other kings shouldn't? Robert's whoring, hunting, eating, drinking and general disinterest in ruling seemed to be his downfall. Not spending time in the training yard on occasion. 

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

Even if they don't want to run away from responsibility - a few hours in the yard are few hours not in the council chamber or throne room. Decisions have to be made. Things are always discussed. People plot the entire time. In a sense, the king is always at the center of things, but if he doesn't drag his councilors within into the yard, he is not going to be at the center of the decision-making process. And that's a bad thing if you are the king.

So your saying a few hours a week for a king to exercise is too much? That he needs to be around his council member 24/7? What about when the King needs to make an heir? Should he bring the council in with him to the bedroom? What if he wants to spend half an hour in the nursery to visit his heir and make sure he's progressing properly?

His council should also bring the final decision to their King. If it's an emergency they can also go to the training yard and alert the King that a decision needs to be made and can't wait 20 minutes for him to finish sparring.

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

If we go back to the Jon Snow example

Oh boy...I'd prefer we didn't. The King of Westeros is not the same as the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. A Lord Paramount would be a more accurate comparison to a king would it not?

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

And you can't do that if you live you personal dreams or indulge in your obsessions.

LOL Again, a few hours a week to clear your head. Not training to challenge the best Knight in Westeros to a duel to the death. Perhaps the King has to make a decision and while it doesn't need to be made right away its important. The distraction and physical work out could help him make the proper decision. For instance some studies say you shouldn't over cram for a test. That a study break can actually be beneficial.

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

Dany's obsession with Daario and their subsequent romance is distracting her very much.

She is a women with needs not a eunuch. One could argue that not acting on her attraction to Daario would have made her obsession worse and that sleeping with him got rid of the nervous energy and sexual tension that kept building up. Plus she's usually with him at night, when her council is supposedly asleep and there are no meetings. A king/queen needs sleep to function, if going a few rounds with Daario helps her sleep then their time together is well spent.IMO

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Monarchs and other rulers really have no time for shit like that in a world as dangerous and unforgiving as Martinworld. At least not in tense or potentially dangerous situations.

You'd run a tight ship, I'll give you that. 

[PrinceHenryris]

At least five Lords competed at Ashford Meadow: Tyrell; Lannister; Tully; Caron; and Swann.  

Lords Caswell, Costayne and Cockshaw competed at Whitewalls.

Lords Baratheon, Dondarrion and Caron are noted competitors at the Hand's Tourney.

You've got to figure that just about anyone who enters a tournament is, at the very least, practicing occasionally.  Robert's the exception of course, but that's the same as watching a faded high-school football player talk about playing in the NFL after a few beers.

Ned, Bronze Yohn, and Ser Rodrik sparred in the training yard when Yohn visited Winterfell.  Bronze Yohn probably trained more regularly, but I'd expect Ned found time here and there to train with Ser Rodrik and also a fairly regular round with Robb, Jon and, maybe, Bran.

As for hunting, there was a TV show I saw a while back that discussed the medieval hunt ("What the .... Knew" or it was the same guy but different name) and they were potentially practical activities.  First, they were a way to blood young men without actual war - blood and guts are blood and guts.  Secondly, they were ways of confirming friendships and potential political alliances.  If a Lord takes you hunting on his lands or a king allows you to hunt his lands, then he's confirming that you are a friend or probably not an enemy.

From a King's perspective, getting away from court might also have political advantage.  A competent ruler might want an excuse to get away from certain members of his court and go where he can talk freely with some of the others.  Now Robert wasn't competent, but if I were in his shoes, I'd love the opportunity to get away from Kingslanding with Ned, Renly, Bronze Yohn and Ser Barristan, while Cersei, Jaime, Varys and Littlefinger are back home.

[PrinceHenryris]

Even though I've participated in the degeneration of this thread, I'll answer the OP's question.  Visenya and Dark Sister were probably a lethal combination.  She trained at Dragonstone alongside her brother and Orys Baratheon.  If we go by the World Book, Orys was Aegon's champion so he was probably a better swordsman, and Visenya was quick enough to cut Aegon before he could draw.

I'd say that Visenya, with Dark Sister, was probably the nastiest female swordfighter during and since the conquest.  Maybe Brienne with Oathkeeper could give her a fight.

[Lion of the West]

I see no reason to doubt that Visenya was a skilled swordswoman, especially after saving Aegon's life from the assassins. In fact I'd think that Visenya was probably more skilled than Aegon when it came to using swords.