Red Tiger Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said: To be fair, Rand Paul actually conducted himself well this morning with Jake Tapper. He still spun some r wing bullshit (And undermined libertarianism in the process) but he was at least acting like just a misinformed adult instead of a fucking child. There are times when I wonder how a Rand Paul presidency would look like. Then I remember, "oh right, he's on the Republican ticket, he'll cave to them when he's in office". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Red Tiger said: There are times when I wonder how a Rand Paul presidency would look like. Then I remember, "oh right, he's on the Republican ticket, he'll cave to them when he's in office". I will say this for Paul. He is the best senator Kentucky has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 This sucks. He even has a fucking green card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokisnow Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 26 minutes ago, Mexal said: This sucks. He even has a fucking green card. Ahh I see ICE took trumps comments about countries like Norway as indicating they should focus on immigrants from european countries, right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, lokisnow said: Ahh I see ICE took trumps comments about countries like Norway as indicating they should focus on immigrants from european countries, right! I remember another group of people that demonized the media, preached totalitarian ideals, idolized Norway, and jumped at the chance to persecute minorities that included Poles. Can't remember the name... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 23 hours ago, Pony Queen Jace said: I remember another group of people that demonized the media, preached totalitarian ideals, idolized Norway, and jumped at the chance to persecute minorities that included Poles. Can't remember the name... Yeah, but they passed corporate tax cuts and now are talking about “entitlement reform”. I mean can’t you just smell all the “freedom” in the air right about now? I mean there is so much “freedom” going on right now, I think I’m going to pass out as I just can’t handle it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Just now, OldGimletEye said: Yeah, but they passed corporate tax cuts and now are talking about “entitlement reform”. I mean can’t you just smell all the “freedom” in the air right about now? I mean there is so much “freedom” going on right now, I think I’m going to pass out as I just can’t handle it all. I'm starting to get sick of all the "freedom", I hope there aren't any more elections. They're so confusing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 21 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said: Yeah, but they passed corporate tax cuts and now are talking about “entitlement reform”. Oh, you mean their repealing the tax givaways cuts for the wealthy and corporations then? Ha! Ha! j/k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted January 21, 2018 Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Red Tiger said: There are times when I wonder how a Rand Paul presidency would look like. Then I remember, "oh right, he's on the Republican ticket, he'll cave to them when he's in office". Of course he will. We saw it when he ran for President. He started to sound more and more like Bush Jr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted January 21, 2018 Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 1 hour ago, OldGimletEye said: Some people care what libertarians think. I think who cares what "libertarians" think. https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2018/1/21/16916082/government-shutdown-size-of-government At least he admits they want to bring the government back to 1790. Of course even this is pretty dishonest. First of of all, libertarians in actual power are forced to toe the line on a host of issues, including fully backing the military industrial complex. This becomes especially true if they make an attempt to be President. Second, libertarians not in actual office, but with actual power to effect electial politics (see the Koch Brothers) in practice. focus 99% of their efforts on things that benefit the wealthy such as tax cuts and deregulation. In addition to electing Republicans of course. They do things other libertarianish things on the side, such as criminal justice reform, but seemingly it is mostly a pr maneuver. Notice the tax cuts are law of the land and criminal justice report was easily sunk by Jeff Sessions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 24 minutes ago, Martell Spy said: Of course he will. We saw it when he ran for President. He started to sound more and more like Bush Jr. Yeah, announcing your campaign in front of an aircraft carrier is not a good idea, especially when you claim to be anti-war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted January 21, 2018 Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, Red Tiger said: Yeah, announcing your campaign in front of an aircraft carrier is not a good idea, especially when you claim to be anti-war. Thank God there was no flight suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivin Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Can somebody tell Senator Graham that I just can't get any more of a Democracy boner right now? Holy hell, I haven't reversed my opinion on someone so fast since that time my mom called me a faggot. Still got my issues with Graham and do not forgive him for cuddling up to a Tyrant even though it looks clear at this point that he was trying to steer the man's policies into simply awful Republicanism instead of Miller Lite. That being said, he's doing the right thing now and that should be celebrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted January 21, 2018 Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 Yeah the effects of Libertarians on our country have truly been terrible, especially when you match what they claim they want to do with what they have actually succeeded at doing. They've succeeded at making the Republican party even more of a plutocrat party and nothing else. The result is a party friendly to rich people, hostile to non whites and anyone poor, that seeks to endlessly increase military spending, and turns over all social policies to the Jesus faction. And this party seems to get more racist, more authoritarian, more in favor of torture every ten years. And the poor little libertarians are powerless to stop this. Perhaps because they too busy thinking of new ways to starve granny, in between voting R and donating to Republicans. Part of the problem is likely that the most powerful libertarians are not really libertarians, but just rich and thus powerful through being political donors. They like the sound of ideas that say the entire country needs to suck their dick 100 percent of the time on all things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 23 hours ago, Martell Spy said: At least he admits they want to bring the government back to 1790. Of course even this is pretty dishonest. First of of all, libertarians in actual power are forced to toe the line on a host of issues, including fully backing the military industrial complex. This becomes especially true if they make an attempt to be President. Second, libertarians not in actual office, but with actual power to effect electial politics (see the Koch Brothers) in practice. focus 99% of their efforts on things that benefit the wealthy such as tax cuts and deregulation. In addition to electing Republicans of course. They do things other libertarianish things on the side, such as criminal justice reform, but seemingly it is mostly a pr maneuver. Notice the tax cuts are law of the land and criminal justice report was easily sunk by Jeff Sessions. So called "libertarians" have way of getting my fuckin' nerves, even more so than sometimes more mainstream conservatives do. There is certain sort of smugness about them that drives me crazy. They are quite prone to lecturing people about "economics" when they fact of the matter is that libertarians often have the most shallow an unsophisticated understanding of the subject matter. Even if you work primarily in a neo classical frame work, there is plenty of theory under that framework that suggest that markets don't always work they way things are presented in introductory courses. And they always try to portray their preferred policies as a matter of "efficiency". Here in the United States, at least, there is little evidence that preferred policies are more efficient. It's been over 30 years since the Reagan revolution and wer're still waiting for this awesome extra growth brought about by "pro growth market oriented solutions" to materialize. And then you have this clown in the article that says that the various programs that make up the American welfare state is "unsustainable". Now it's true that would be the case under current CBO projections, but most of this so called "unsustainability is mainly the result of the United States' overpriced and inefficient healthcare system. Of course the inference that this libertarian clown would like us to make is that we have to cut most of this stuff out or give up on it. This is highly misleading. If libertarians simply have an ideological objection to it, then they should so state, rather than relying on the misleading and dishonest language about unsustainability. And I agree, that as a practical matter, when push comes to shove, libertarians will often back conservatives over the issue of tax cuts or so called "entitlement reform", even when conservatives, like say Dubya, violate principles libertarians claim to stand for. And despite their rhetoric about "freedom" they are often willing to stand by and watch some the most oppressive crap imaginable and then call it "freedom". I think the 1964 Civil Rights act is the classic case here. I don't disagree with everything they say of course. I'm inclined to agree with the Ron Paul's of the world about foreign policy, as I have a big bias against interventionism. And I do think civil liberties are important. But, then again, I think Marx got some things right and some things wrong. Overall I think libertarians are delusional. For their system to work, everyone would have to be committed libertarians. And while the rich and corporations will talk a big libertarian game about "small government" the fact of the matter is I doubt many of them as a practical matter would swear off interfering with government decision making in order to benefit themselves. On another thread, there is a discussion about Cuba. It turns out there is a reference to the United Fruit Company and it's shenanigans in Guatemala and other places. While I'm quite sure the United Fruit Company was willing to preach the gospel of libertarianism to everyone, it' was quite happy to lie in bed with dictators to get it's way and was more than willing to use the military might and political prestige of the United States to protect it's profits. In short, I think libertarians are mainly full of crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 23 hours ago, Triskele said: @OldGimletEye - I think we should start pointing out how incompetent Trump and some Republicans are by blaming this shutdown on a "skills gap." Theirs. LOL. You think there is any chance of getting the CEO Business Clowntable to talk about this? Probably not. Though in this case it's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 23 hours ago, Nasty LongRider said: Oh, you mean their repealing the tax givaways cuts for the wealthy and corporations then? Ha! Ha! j/k LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivin Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 538 shows an aggregate drop of a full point in Donald's approval since Thursday. I don't believe in you god, but if we really are your secular country just give me a normal political response to this nightmare! Let Democrats see the scratch polls come out this week and know they can stand firm! I have been really disappointed at the oft-cited poll that says 56% see keeping the government open over DACA because there's no nuance. You can think that and still approve of what Dems are doing, like myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Mexal said: This sucks. He even has a fucking green card. ICE is staffed with authoritarians, racists and white supremacists. Which shouldn't be that surprising given who would want to get into that kind of work. They constantly complained during the Obama years that he was holding them back. Now Trump has just told them to do what they feel. The results speak for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Martell Spy said: Thank God there was no flight suit. Mission complete! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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