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Werthead

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In fact OiL, it's not really Robert that strip the lordship to the Conningtons, it's Aerys that did it after Jon Connington loses the battle of the Bells. It's just that when Robert became king, he gave back his lordship to the Merryweathers, but not to the Conningtons, he didn't cancel Jon Connington's exile orders & Give Griffin's Roost to ser Ronnet. OMHO, it seems more personnal grief toward Jon Connington himself (for beeing Rhaegar best friend) than punishment for Targaryen loyalism. Robert forgave the Tyrells, the Tarlys & all the Reach's noble houses, he forgave Barristan & make him heal by his own maester, he forgave Cafferens, Fells & Grandisons, why should he not forgive to the Darrys and only the Darrys ?

Well like I said, it's not impossible, but with the informations we have, it seems very very weird. But maybe there is some lack of informations ! Maybe Darrys did something during the war we don't know and that explains the fact Raymun could have been striped of his lordship... But I do not think so...

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Evrach, I already mentioned that it's explicitly stated that the Darrys were stripped a lot of their lands, wealth, and privileges because of their support for their Targaryens. No one but Robert would have done this, I think. The Darrys are noted as particularly strong Targaryen loyalists. Raymun's three brothers died in the war, Ser Willem Darry escaped with the Targaryen children into exile, Ser Jonothor Darry was of the Kingsguard, and so on. If they were loyalists to the very end, then one can see why they could merit special punishment.

I'm not sure that his son gained the title of lord, BTW. In ACoK, he is listed merely by his name, with no 'Lord' in front of it. That he's called "young Lord Darry" by the BwB may be a continuation of the referencing of the Darrys as lords informally, when they were no longer lords in fact.

I think I'm going to take that tack for now with the heraldry page for the Darrys, given the AFfC info. I do intend to ask George for clarification some time.

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Good idea (asking GRRM).

Robert took the lands, the wealth and privilieges, think he took it from a lot of others houses. But don't think he took their lordship.

About Lyman, when the Blackfish talk about his death to Catelyn, he explitely says that Lyman was Lord of Darry.

Well, another possibility is that Robb retored Darrys's lordship after the Darrys became sworns to the Starks in ACOK... I think that could also explains a lot of things (but ser Raymun died before >_< grumph what a puzzle !).

Edit : Mail sent to GRRM ^^ Hope he will answer soon !

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  • 1 month later...
Is saw the page Recent history here on Blood of Dragons. Is that information canon? Or maybe I should ask: is that what according to GRRM happened?

Ran could confirm, but I believe that stuff from BoD, even stuff they may have asked GRRM about, is non-canon. In fact, I believe the word from GRRM that nothing is canon at all until it appears in the novels, even the 'approved' stuff in the RPGs (although I'd say we can still use that material until it is supersceded).

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  • 2 months later...
  • 9 months later...

How we dealt with that issue on LGDN :

Copyright Page explaining that only texts are under CC and that the copyright of images can be found specificly on images pages (in French sorry), a long article with only legal informations.

Samples :

A copyrighted image used with creator permission (red border)

A copyrighted small-sized image used under Fair Use (orange border)

An image under free GNU FDL Licence from Commons (blue border)

An image created by us and under CC by-S.A. 2.0 (green border)

Both in french & english in the frames.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest Other-in-Law

I just saw the list of songs page, and saw that while lyrics were posted they were not always complete. I added two verses to the Song of the Seven, but then I saw a notice about not posting copyrighted material without permission. Does that mean that where partial lyrics have been posted that GRRM has given permission for those and only those lyrics?

I'll happily delete what I added if it's forbidden (or someone else can, it was just the Father and Mother verses), but if it's acceptable to post lyrics on the wiki I'd like to continue with more. Is there a definite ruling on this?

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Are the text of songs copyright?

The answer is yes. All text is copyright, so the text of the songs are too.

However this does not mean that we may never use them. We are allowed to quote text from the books. So the discussion is what is still a quote?

In the article of Wikipedia about Non free content there is some information that points where the line is:

  • Excessive long excerpts are not allowed.
  • Another point that is important is "Respect for commercial opportunities. Non-free content is not used in a manner that is likely to replace the original market role of the original copyrighted media."

So if I apply this to the song texts I would say that the complete text of a song is not allowed. It is possible that GRRM would want to publish the songs separately, in which case the text on the wiki might hurt his sales.

However if in the books only a few lines are given (The False and the Fair for example) it is unlikely to be published.

The only songs of which are more then a couple of lines are:

-The Rains of Castamere

-The Bear and the Maiden Fair

-The Song of the Seven

So we should not set the complete text of those songs on the wiki. Other songs will not be a problem I think.

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Guest Other-in-Law

So how long is too long? Should one single verse be the limit? I think I'll remove what I added to be on the safe side. I was thinging we got a good bit from the Dornishman's Wife, and three quarters of Seasons of My Love.

As a general style note, I saw that the songs and ships lists were quite complete, but each example of both was listed on it's own page even though in many cases the information was quite scanty. Would it make more sense for one large page on ships with a line of info for each one that could be all read at the same time, with maybe only a few having a separate page with more details? Or say, a few pages with multiple ships, like a single page for the Royal fleet, another one for the Ironborn fleet, etc?

In the case of songs, this would be easier for me to add some that aren't included (Jenny of Oldstones, the Brothers of the Kingswood) since I know how to add a section, but not how to add a whole new page.

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If one complete verse is known from the books I suggest we use the half of it.

If there are multiple verses then we should only use one (the first).

If less then one verse is known then I don't think it is a problem to use the few lines we have.

About using lists vs an article for each instance the was some discussion. The result was that more people were in favor of making a separate article for each instance.

The advantage of this is that the link to the new article shows up on the right site of multiple page in the Westeros domain. I must say I like that very much as this lead to a bit of publicity for the wiki.

Creating an article is easy: just type the name of the article in the search box. If an article with that title already exists it will show that article else you will have the option to create a new article.

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  • 1 month later...

This question is concerning the Oakhearts that Arys remembers being depicted on tapestries at Old Oak. He remembers Alester sounding his warhorn with his last breath and the Three Leaves were pierced with spears.

Now the question is:

Is Alester known as the Three Leaves, or is Ser Arys referring to the banner of House Oakheart?

Furthermore, was Olyvar Oakheart a member of the Kingsguard? He died in Dorne next to King Daeron I all dressed in white. That`s a pretty good clue, or should I make that a theory? For the time being I put him as a member of the Kingsguard but I will change it if the consensus says otherwise.

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This question is concerning the Oakhearts that Arys remembers being depicted on tapestries at Old Oak. He remembers Alester sounding his warhorn with his last breath and the Three Leaves were pierced with spears.

Now the question is:

Is Alester known as the Three Leaves, or is Ser Arys referring to the banner of House Oakheart?

Furthermore, was Olyvar Oakheart a member of the Kingsguard? He died in Dorne next to King Daeron I all dressed in white. That`s a pretty good clue, or should I make that a theory? For the time being I put him as a member of the Kingsguard but I will change it if the consensus says otherwise.

Good question for Alester. For Olyvar I'd say likeyou that he was a membre of the Kingsguard.

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