The Hunger Games Trilogy

[Seventh Pup]

I will also say that since it is from a first person narrative, and since that person is telling the story from some point in the future. It makes since that not all the deaths or bad things really ring deep for for Katniss since...

Prim dies. While she's writing what will be the climax of the story she knows that Prim is about to die. The deaths of the others in the group can't really have that much impact on her knowing that is coming. Reading them through the second time I really noticed this. In the third books things effect her less, because she knows that these events are leading up to Prim's death. Writing about them years later, her detachment from the story makes even more since. Like she's skimming through a really painful part of her life.

Personally these are one of the few books I've reread (why reread something when there is so many unopened great books out there?) and one of the very few that I feel gets better on the second read.

I love that Katniss exists in Pop culture. I love that she's not a spoiled beautiful girl that needs to be saved, she's a solider, and she's scared. But she's not totally bleak either. To me she was the protagonist I have been crazing for a while, and I am happy that teen girls will have a Katniss to balance the Bellas'.

[Balefont]

Yay, se7enth!

[estella]

All of my friends are obsessed, so of course I had to read the books.

The first one was okay. A good read, but nothing like my expectations. The characters are not at all relatable tbh. And the use of present tense is a bit awkward.

The second one sucked. The ending was a wannabe cliffhanger, but just left me feeling unfulfilled and not very excited.

The third book was a trainwreck. Perhaps if there'd been more pages it wouldn't have been as bad. Too much stuff happened in too little time, often randomly. And the ending, ugh.

So I don't understand why this series has the fanbase it does.

Well, it's miles better than Twilight at least. The first one wasn't bad for a YA fic.

[Errant Bard]

I think I addressed this point in particular. :)

Really? Huh, she doesn't spend time being catatonic? You mean it's not looove? I maintain that it's the root of her catatonia, there is just no alternate reading when she becomes like that only because of what's done to the other guy. This isn't about confusion in her feelings, it's her getting catatonic when specific events happen.

IMO, that's Katniss' world, though. It's run by ruthless people who pull no punches in order to maintain the status quo. There is no room for romance.

People who pull no punches are not cackling buffoons of doom. There are no people who pull no punches in Hunger Games, only superficial black hats. The world is utterly stupid, superficial and bland. But mainly stupid, and that's not because of PoV bias.

About romance: the first survival instinct is to reproduce, so the stress should have heightened the hormones' effects. Maybe romance is not the appropriate word for what we had, fine, but I was mainly speaking about sex in a relationship where love may or may not be present... I know a lot of couple who formed for less than being forced to pretend to be together while liking each others and being 17.

Regarding your spoiler section: To me, by the end of the books, the character, from whose point of view we are subjected, has gone through so much horror that she's shocked and pretty numb. So naturally, events such as those, to me, are seen in a washed out manner. Did it bother me? No. It fit and is also a product of the first person narrative.

Except it's not a PoV bias I am seeing, what I described was me being disgusted at the stupidity of the plot and the writing. Come on, bombing chidlren and medics just for kicks, and sending children of your own side in the mix? It's not about how numb the main character is or isn't, it's about how ridiculous the whole thing is, and about I, as a reader was left to roll my eyes even as the writer had his heroine go in another catatonia because it hurts her so much. I'm pretty sure that if it hurts her so much and she goes into shock, the writer intent was not to show that she was being numb.

Also, about PoV bias: it's not because I can write a book from Hodor's thoughts it would be a good story, or would be good writing, even if it being written like that would make some sense. I don't think Collins writes a good story, or writes it well, in the end. Worldbuilding, internal logic, politics, interactions, war, what's believable in the end, once Collins enlarges her perimeter out of the basic survival game?

[genegirl]

I loved the first book and felt the second one was so-so. The third book was downright horrible and felt cheated because it should have been great.

Someone said it was readable and that is all it was.

[Balefont]

Really? Huh, she doesn't spend time being catatonic? You mean it's not looove? I maintain that it's the root of her catatonia, there is just no alternate reading when she becomes like that only because of what's done to the other guy. This isn't about confusion in her feelings, it's her getting catatonic when specific events happen.

Not romantic love at all. She's total PTSD Katniss and she has a relapse because shes's 1) not fully healed when he comes back, 2) the biggest reason - she blames herself for the guy's mental and physical destruction. It's more than love and what love there is has nothing to do with romance.

People who pull no punches are not cackling buffoons of doom. There are no people who pull no punches in Hunger Games, only superficial black hats. The world is utterly stupid, superficial and bland. But mainly stupid, and that's not because of PoV bias.

Again, subjective feelings that I can't debate against. Potayto Potahto. Maybe it's a YA thing. I don't read much YA so I forgive simplicity and fill in the gaps myself without thinking. I think good YA, to me, makes this effortless.

About romance: the first survival instinct is to reproduce, so the stress should have heightened the hormones' effects. Maybe romance is not the appropriate word for what we had, fine, but I was mainly speaking about sex in a relationship where love may or may not be present... I know a lot of couple who formed for less than being forced to pretend to be together while liking each others and being 17.

Bolded mine: The first survival instinct is to not die it isn't to reproduce. And I think all this talk about hormones is really reaching.

The rest of that statement was really difficult to follow.

Except it's not a PoV bias I am seeing, what I described was me being disgusted at the stupidity of the plot and the writing.

Again, a matter of taste and tolerance.

Come on, bombing chidlren and medics just for kicks,

Seems an act of ruthlessness aimed at subduing the masses.

and sending children of your own side in the mix?

When did this happen? If you're talking about Prim's presence, at the end of the war, she was there with the medics from 13 to help the Capitol children. She wasn't sent in there by Coin because she was a child on Coin's side of the war.

It's not about how numb the main character is or isn't, it's about how ridiculous the whole thing is, and about I, as a reader was left to roll my eyes even as the writer had his heroine go in another catatonia because it hurts her so much. I'm pretty sure that if it hurts her so much and she goes into shock, the writer intent was not to show that she was being numb.

I... disagree. Again, really hard to grasp what exactly you are saying here beyond "it's about how ridiculous the whole thing is". Bella was ridiculous for going catatonic when Edward leaves her. Katniss is suffering from actual trauma.

Also, about PoV bias: it's not because I can write a book from Hodor's thoughts it would be a good story, or would be good writing, even if it being written like that would make some sense. I don't think Collins writes a good story, or writes it well, in the end. Worldbuilding, internal logic, politics, interactions, war, what's believable in the end, once Collins enlarges her perimeter out of the basic survival game?

Then whatevs, dude, you didn't like it. It probably was never a story for you from the start. And that's okay.

[Errant Bard]

Everything making less and less sense aside from the PTSD of the heroes, after the first book, is actually not something you can dismiss with a "whatever, matters of taste", I think. So you're here bashing Twilight in the same fashion I do for Hunger Games, and somehow you can dismiss all my criticisms, but it seems yours are still valid to say Hunger Games is so much better? Huh, yeah, whatever.

[Balefont]

Yes and no. I loathed Twilight perhaps for similar reasons you dislike THG. I like a lot about THG because it's great, for once, to not have a silly, simpering girl who wants nothing more than to live forever with her one twu wuv. To imply this as being Katniss' motives at any point in the story is completely untrue.

The whole focus of Twilight appeared to be a medium through which Meyers could masterbate through her writing. Much like authors such as John Rongo and Clive Cussler. I never got any sense of that from Collins. I like the whole premise of 1984 meets Battle Royal and I fidn't need for it to be written with the same quality of GRRM or Daniel Abraham, etc. I'm sure if that is what I was looking for, I could have found it elsewhere. But I didn't need it for this story nor was I looking for it.

Personal taste.

It was just so nice to read a story with a reluctant FEMALE protagonist that didn't end like a fairy tale. I hope Collins writes more books in a similar fashion and hopefully she'll get better at it.

[Fragile Bird]

Everything making less and less sense aside from the PTSD of the heroes, after the first book, is actually not something you can dismiss with a "whatever, matters of taste", I think. So you're here bashing Twilight in the same fashion I do for Hunger Games, and somehow you can dismiss all my criticisms, but it seems yours are still valid to say Hunger Games is so much better? Huh, yeah, whatever.

Since I respect what I've read in a number of your posts, I guess this is a fairly definitive suggestion that I not pick up Hunger Games as my next read?

[Lady Octarina]

Read the trilogy this week, and... wow. At first, I couldn't have lower expectations for it; I thought this would be just another pseudo-attempt at apocalyptical books for this “twilight generation”, focusing more on silly romance and adventure than anything else (and the first book mostly pointed that way). I couldn’t be more wrong, of course. It’s one of the best series for young adults I’ve read in a while. Katniss at first seemed to be just another Mary Sue, but she’s just so paranoid and broken that I had to rethink that. All the victors, actually. It seems realistic. Books 2 and 3 were so well-written and depressing I’m afraid they might change too much to make younger readers happier – I mean, it only takes a few minutes on Tumblr to see that teenagers mostly hated Mockingjay because of just how cruel the reality it shows is. The reason why I loved it, really,

even though they killed my favorite character, Finnick! >.<

. I love just how absurd is the author’s portrait of the world, how pointless everyone’s lives and efforts turn out to be, how scarred they will always be. No happy ending. I couldn’t be more satisfied.

Besides, these books provide us with some great characters: my beloved Finnick, Haymitch and his bitterness, Beetee the genius-teacher, Johanna always our favorite b*tch. And the Capitol people… \o/

Overall, I think it does deserve a place among the great dystopias of the past (even though it's not nearly as good as those).

Edit: also, I think the main problem in this series is that it was written from Katniss's perspective. She's not as horrible as Bella Swann, of course, but she just seemed too interested in deatils I couldn't care less about, dismissing things I was interested in reading more closely. Not to mention it was pretty irritating to read of her catatonic state when she hated her mother so badly for doing the same. Oh, well, what can we do? The rest of the story makes up for it.

[kairparavel]

I long, long for people to stop comparing this series to Twilight. They couldn't have anything less to do with one another than they would with say, Harry Potter. I mean, aside from a female character and two male characters front and center, all three series are completely independent of one another.

Too many people try too hard to somehow fit in by bashing Twilight every freaking chance they get and it's so so tired.

[Balefont]

Sorry, kair. I haven't read anything else really YA (excluding, for obvious reasons, The Inferior) so I have a hard time forming a basis of comparison with other YA works. The stories are more linear than what I'm typically used to reading. I just couldn't stand the audacity of people who paint Katniss in the same light I would Bella; a lovesick, self-centered teen girl. < gag >

The "weak points" I overlook because I don't expect masterpiece theater from YA. I gloss over, filled in holes, ignored all the sentences ending in a preposition, moved on and enjoyed the story. The end.

[ambyr]

Sorry, kair. I haven't read anything else really YA (excluding, for obvious reasons, The Inferior) so I have a hard time forming a basis of comparison with other YA works. The stories are more linear than what I'm typically used to reading. I just couldn't stand the audacity of people who paint Katniss in the same light I would Bella; a lovesick, self-centered teen girl. < gag >

The "weak points" I overlook because I don't expect masterpiece theater from YA. I gloss over, filled in holes, ignored all the sentences ending in a preposition, moved on and enjoyed the story. The end.

Sounds like we're due for a "Good YA fantasy" thread! There's plenty of amazing YA out there with quality writing and complex, interwoven stories.

[Lady Octarina]

Sounds like we're due for a "Good YA fantasy" thread! There's plenty of amazing YA out there with quality writing and complex, interwoven stories.

And the first thing that comes to mind when you say it is His Dark Materials - best series I read before finding ASoIaF.

[Errant Bard]

Yes and no. I loathed Twilight perhaps for similar reasons you dislike THG. I like a lot about THG because it's great, for once, to not have a silly, simpering girl who wants nothing more than to live forever with her one twu wuv. To imply this as being Katniss' motives at any point in the story is completely untrue.

[...]

It was just so nice to read a story with a reluctant FEMALE protagonist that didn't end like a fairy tale. I hope Collins writes more books in a similar fashion and hopefully she'll get better at it.

I'm sorry, I didn't want to imply Katniss motives are that she wants to live forever with her true love. There is love, and it impacts her mainly to damage her in sympathy, but for me that's peripheral, though the endless catatonia of the last books was not that great a read.

Yes, it is good to have a reluctant heroine, not too perfect and who doesn't quite gets back up from being broken, I think I put that in my very first post of the thread.

However, everything else, and the writing, works to defeat the good ideas in the story. The first book was fine because the nonsensical elements of the world were not the focus, and we had a small stage, but once book 2 and 3 rolled in, there was no ignoring those elements any more.

Since I respect what I've read in a number of your posts, I guess this is a fairly definitive suggestion that I not pick up Hunger Games as my next read?

Huh, I don't know, if you feel like picking it up, do it, I didn't like it much past first book, but that doesn't mean you won't. But this being said, depending on what you've already read and what you like, there may be better books to pick up for you. :dunno:

[wolverine]

Just finished the first book today. I usually can't get into YA at all but I thought this was a pretty decent read. YA reads sooooo much faster than other stuff I read it doesn't feel like a waste of time at all.

Can we spoil the first book in this thread?

[Fragile Bird]

@ Errant Bard: I know there's a good reads thread where people have lots of suggestions. My question is, do I want to invest the time to read the first book if 2 and 3 go rapidly downhill, though it seems the books are quick reads.

Seeing Lady Octarina happy and purring when I know she wants everybody dead in ASOIAF (love between SanSan? Nah, kill 'em off! Jaime and Brienne? Dead meat. Jon Snow? He's dead. etc etc etc). Kinda tells me Mockingbird won't be my kind of book, you think?

[Lady Octarina]

Seeing Lady Octarina happy and purring when I know she wants everybody dead in ASOIAF (love between SanSan? Nah, kill 'em off! Jaime and Brienne? Dead meat. Jon Snow? He's dead. etc etc etc). Kinda tells me Mockingbird won't be my kind of book, you think?

How nice of you to notice! I don't want everybody dead, just unhappy ever after =P Kidding, I want a happy ending for Jaime and Brienne and Jon on the Iron Throne with Stannis as his Hand, I just think that’s unlikely to happen, but back on topic, well... The last two books have many problems, but are realistic enough in terms of what happens to the characters after all the tragedy they face in their lives. I have a friend who actually considered the end of Mockingjay quite happy - I thought it was just adequate and could have been more tragic, so maybe you'll like it. O.o I do believe that the author killed a few characters unnecessarily, maybe just to show no one was safe there, but that’s her decision and I respect it.

[MattL86]

Why do people keep excusing this as young adult? When I was a young adult I wasn't mentally deficient. There's no reason books written for teenagers should be sloppy, shallow, and generally poorly written. I might not have been as mature at 14, but I was capable of rational thought. Hell, the LEGO worlds of my six year old imagination were more well thought out than this series. Excusing an irrational book as being YA makes no sense.

Granted, dealing with death and sexuality might be more adult topics, but then don't right a book about kids murdering each other for a young adult audience. If kids can't face the dark side of murder, don't write about dark concepts. Otherwise, we end up with morally bankrupt books like this, where the heroine kills people with no more than the most perfunctory remorse.

[Lady Octarina]

Granted, dealing with death and sexuality might be more adult topics, but then don't right a book about kids murdering each other for a young adult audience. If kids can't face the dark side of murder, don't write about dark concepts. Otherwise, we end up with morally bankrupt books like this, where the heroine kills people with no more than the most perfunctory remorse.

Why shouldn't YA books touch delicate moral issues? The dark side of human nature? How thin the line that connects our society to civilized behavior is? I don't understand you. I think we should applaud the author for exploring such subjects; she doesn't make the "lesson" explicit, of course, but I think that's just her not underestimating her readers' intelligence. Rational people should be able to see Katniss is anything but a role model, whether they are 14 or 74. Unfortunately, that's not what happens - teenagers all over the web seem to admire Katniss, who knows why, but that's not the author's fault, this is just how people behave when they're young and foolish, admiring what they'll, hopefully, condemn in five-years time.