Ser Loras Conspiracy Theory

[Miyamoto]

No, what they found out that her maidenhead was broken. There are explanations for that other than sex. There's no reason to believe the faith wouldn't consider this. Then you have to consider that the only person making the charges against her sent someone who 1) confessed to actually having slept with Cersei, and 2) confessed to having murdered the previous High Septon. That's plenty of ammunition for the Tyrells to feel more than comfortable in a regular trial.

I thought the High Septon didn't buy that she broke her maidenhead by horseback riding or some such. And is still held for trial.

[Kadence]

Yes she is being held for trial, but at this point the trial is trivial. Osney has confessed to making it up on Cersei's orders. The only case is from the Blue Bard, who has been mutilated. Anyone should be able to see through his case as a fraudulent confession brought about by torture, and his story isn't consistent with Osney's. Other than that there is no case whatsoever. Margaery should be found not guilty pretty quickly. So I hope they don't choose trial by combat via Loras - there's no way they can loose a normal trial unless it's rigged. And if it was rigged, it would be by the Tyrells anyway. It would be illogical for them to choose trial by combat, although it's possible. In which case I think the author would be erring. I suppose you could argue there's political value in Loras valiantly defending Margaery, but really it's not the prudent choice from the Tyrell perspective at all.

You will also recall that when Cersei tells Margaery of the injury, Margaery cries. That reaction had to be real and sincere or Cersei would know she was being played.

But what happens later that night after Cersei tells Margaery? The Lady Taena, whom we ALL know must be a Tyrell spy and and agent and who is clearly in on the Tyrell schemes, goes to spend the night with Margaery to "console her". With what? Her Myrrish swamp? I think not.

The Lady Taena goes to Margaery that night to whisper to her the real truth.

Hmm, I'm not sure I buy this. There was something suspicious about Margaery's reaction and the way it was written. It was like we were supposed to suspect Margaery was acting. Not sure why you think Cersei would see through her - Cersei is a complete idiot, I don't think she'd even suspect anything. She has no reason to and even if she did, she's completely blind and deluded.

But yes, Frankengregor will be the twist that saves Cersei, much to the chagrin of the QoT and Littlefinger.

[Night's Scotch]

Ah, this is true. I had forgotten that huge detail. Well, whatever the reason behind it, I still think that Loras is out and about executing some plot to bring down the Lannisters. There is no way that beautiful man was going to let himself be burned by oil. His vanity would not allow it. I honestly believe that the burn victim will turn out to be someone else.

Really? Let's add that to the list of things GRRM won't do to his characters:

Ned Stark will never be beheaded for treason, he's too honorable.

Jaime Lannister is one of the top swordsmen in the Seven Kingdoms, he'd never lose a hand.

Tyrion's not a warrior, and he's already a Dwarf, he won't get any uglier.

Myrcella's a beautiful little girl, why would anybody cut her ear off or scar up her pretty face?

hmmm this list doesn't appear to be growing much.

For all his vanity, Loras is still a warrior and a relatively fearless one at that. His pretty face was the last thing on his mind, but even then it wasn't like he planned to be burnt.

[Guest]

Really? Let's add that to the list of things GRRM won't do to his characters:

Ned Stark will never be beheaded for treason, he's too honorable.

Jaime Lannister is one of the top swordsmen in the Seven Kingdoms, he'd never lose a hand.

Tyrion's not a warrior, and he's already a Dwarf, he won't get any uglier.

Myrcella's a beautiful little girl, why would anybody cut her ear off or scar up her pretty face?

hmmm this list doesn't appear to be growing much.

For all his vanity, Loras is still a warrior and a relatively fearless one at that. His pretty face was the last thing on his mind, but even then it wasn't like he planned to be burnt.

Yep, really. I really believe the burn victim is someone else :)

[History of Westeros]

Yep, really. I really believe the burn victim is someone else :)

You so crazy.

[Ser Greguh]

I don't see any reason myself to believe that there even really is a specific burn victim to begin with.

[Trebla]

The name you have to remember in all of this is: Cristin Cole. GRRM ended one of Jaime's chapters with Jaime telling Loras of the Lord Commander Criston Cole who split the Kingsguard and the realm when he crowned Viserys I's son instead of the offical heir, Princess Rhaenyra. I always found it odd that GRRM ended a chapter with that, wondering what was the true signicance. GRRM had already introduced Criston Cole in the Arys Okheart chapter but he pointed him out again in Jame's chapter. Was it alluding to Jaime's path of defying Cersei? Was Jaime hinting to Loras that Loras may need to act against Cersei in the future?

The other thing, as has been pointed out, it was Aurane Waters that gave Cersei the news about Loras. The same Aurane Waters that took his new fleet away the moment Cersei was in trouble. I think that instantly casts doubt as to where his loyalties have always been. Keeping a secret that Loras is actually unharmed might not be that dificult. Aurane must have the loyalty of the crews if he was able to abruptly leave when trouble erupted in KL. He also might have only let the most loyal men off the ships while they were anchored in the bay.

Pycelle and Ser Harys suspected Aurane Waters might be going to the Stepstones to pirate or headed to Stannis. Or Aurane could have been scheming with Loras all along to remove Cersei so that the Tyrells could then take the war to the Ironmen. But Maergary being imprisoned along with Cersei by the Faith puts a damper on things. So does the Faith now having a large host of Sparrows, Poor Fellows, and Warrior's Sons. This could set the stage for Loras to return with Aurane to champion Maergary.

eta: I do think it's also possible that Aurane Waters is taking Cersei's new dromonds to Dany in Merreen. I think it would be hysterical if Dany returns to Westeros in ship that Cersei herself had built to protect her from the Tyrell fleet.

[Mark Antony]

Yep, really. I really believe the burn victim is someone else :)

first i was like :shocked:

but thennn :smoking:

[StarkWard]

It's not entirely impossible. Didn't someone pretend to be Renly's ghost by wearing his armor?

[Cotter_Pyke]

He's dead or will die soon..

No, championing Maergery. The Tyrells will have to come up with something else to save her.

[Silverin]

I don't really believe this.

Although there are some shemers in the Tyrell family but Loras is not one of them. He is described as young rash and still believes in bravery and such, I think he is even described kind of a fool (by Olenna or Jaime? I don't know which said it).

I think him not even paying attention and risking his life in order to take Dragonstone is compeletly fit with his personality. Especially the way he felt that after renly's death he will never love anyone again, I don't think his prettines did matter to him.

Margaery won't need any champion, she choose trial by faith. Cersei is the one who will have a trial by combat.

I think him being burned and being injured in dragonstone has a different purpose. When Renly died Loras went rabid and killed the remaining members of the rainbow guards. Now what would happen if he were in Kingslanding during marg's trial?

I think Marg will die, Cersei will be plotting against the Tyrells in KL, but she won't be able to touch Loras since he is far away and Dragonstone is full of his men. This way Loras can get away from Cersei (storywise) since he is badly injured he can't return. And Dragonstons seems important, since every time dany refers to Westeros as some kind of home, she thinks about Dragonstone since that is the place she was borne. And there are possibly hidden places there with dragon eggs etc... and now that is in the hands of Loras.

[BrosBeforeSnows]

He was seen getting injured in front of several hundred men, he has to be pretty good to fake that. Also he took the mission as it was the only way to free the Arbor's fleet to fight off the Ironmen on Shield Isles

Exactly. We also know, from Jaime mostly, that Loras is obsessed with glory, much like Jaime was when he was younger. The Ironmen were threatening the Reach, i.e. the Tyrell homeland, and Loras wanted the glory of freeing up the Redwyne fleet, so they could return home and crush the Ironmen.

[CrypticWeirwood]

I think the thing that allows this to still be a valid theory is that we do not have hundreds of witnesses saying he was injured - if I remember it was Aurane Waters reporting it. So we have one person saying it, who may or may not be telling the truth.

Well there you have it, then: Aurane Waters is the very model of trustworthiness, now isn’t he just?

[CrypticWeirwood]

I don't really believe this.

Although there are some shemers in the Tyrell family but Loras is not one of them. He is described as young rash and still believes in bravery and such, I think he is even described kind of a fool (by Olenna or Jaime? I don't know which said it).

I think him not even paying attention and risking his life in order to take Dragonstone is compeletly fit with his personality. Especially the way he felt that after renly's death he will never love anyone again, I don't think his prettiness did matter to him.

Jaime also describes Loras as being just like Jaime was at that age.

I guess that either means Loras is boinking Margaery or else that Jaime had been boinking Rhaegar.

Or both. ;-}

[Silverin]

Jaime also describes Loras as being just like Jaime was at that age.

I guess that either means Loras is boinking Margaery or else that Jaime had been boinking Rhaegar.

Or both. ;-}

Being like jaime has nothing to do with his sexuality. It means he is rash, stupid, chasing glory. just like him. And since jaime is somewhat monogamous(towards Cersei) so we can say he is a romanticist, Loras ( Renly) seems like that as well. (Well jaime is not that in love in Cersei anymore, but in Loras's age only she mattered to him. that was one of the reason he became KG, that way he didn't had to marry another woman)

[CrypticWeirwood]

Being like jaime has nothing to do with his sexuality.

Gosh, and I even put a smiley for the humor-impaired! Subtle or ironic is just not the resident style around here I see. Guess next time I’ll try slapstick. Maybe Jerry Lewis can put in an appearance.

[Armstark]

Jaime also describes Loras as being just like Jaime was at that age.

I guess that either means Loras is boinking Margaery or else that Jaime had been boinking Rhaegar.

Or both. ;-}

i laughed