Why does no one like Dany?

[modbelle]

I ship Dany/Happiness with the Red Door but not Dany/Iron Throne. So this is where things get complicated. I like her, but everytime she tries to rule something or more specifically talks about ruling Westeros, I cringe. She talks about her rights, but she doesn't know how to rule or about the place she wants to be ruling. While I believe she is working on the first part and failing, she isn't working at the second part. In fact, I'd say she doesn't care about it, instead she feels she will bend Westeros to her will and she has the right because she is the mother of dragons. She is also set up as Anti-Stark. Since she already knows that Ned tried to save her life from Robert to the point of renouncing his handship (which IMO most men wouldn't do), and didn't change her mind or even want to more about the situation or him, I don't think anything will change her stance as Anti-Stark. She doesn't care about someone else's pov. Really what I want is for Dany to find the Red Door and have a happy life with someone, but the moment she lands in Westeros, I will be rooting against (and hoping she decides to fall back across the narrow sea and search for said peaceful life).

[Where Went Whent]

Every Decision Dany has ever made falls in any of these three categories: crap, crap, crap. Oh I forgot, I wrote 'crap' thrice, that's cos 'crap' the appropriate definition for Dany's mindset.

"I am only a girl... I might be naive..." ah spare me. Stop treating your dragons like children cos they are not, they are beasts and they are dangerous, and next time you go fancying a man, do not go for a blue bearded one.

One thing I forgot to add, Dany should never go to Westeros, not at this point when things are getting rather interesting. If she comes there and interferes...RAAAAAAAAh!!! (don't mind me, I don't really hate Dany, I dislike Daenerys)

[Cas Stark]

I ship Dany/Happiness with the Red Door but not Dany/Iron Throne. So this is where things get complicated. I like her, but everytime she tries to rule something or more specifically talks about ruling Westeros, I cringe. She talks about her rights, but she doesn't know how to rule or about the place she wants to be ruling. While I believe she is working on the first part and failing, she isn't working at the second part. In fact, I'd say she doesn't care about it, instead she feels she will bend Westeros to her will and she has the right because she is the mother of dragons. She is also set up as Anti-Stark. Since she already knows that Ned tried to save her life from Robert to the point of renouncing his handship (which IMO most men wouldn't do), and didn't change her mind or even want to more about the situation or him, I don't think anything will change her stance as Anti-Stark. She doesn't care about someone else's pov. Really what I want is for Dany to find the Red Door and have a happy life with someone, but the moment she lands in Westeros, I will be rooting against (and hoping she decides to fall back across the narrow sea and search for said peaceful life).

One of the things that I do find interesting is that I believe, much like Theon, she is pursuing a goal because she feels she "should" but that her heart is not really in it, what she really wants is the house with the red door, not the IT, but I'm not sure GRRM sees her that way, LOL.

[Aleesha]

I ship Dany/Happiness with the Red Door but not Dany/Iron Throne. So this is where things get complicated. I like her, but everytime she tries to rule something or more specifically talks about ruling Westeros, I cringe. She talks about her rights, but she doesn't know how to rule or about the place she wants to be ruling. While I believe she is working on the first part and failing, she isn't working at the second part. In fact, I'd say she doesn't care about it, instead she feels she will bend Westeros to her will and she has the right because she is the mother of dragons. She is also set up as Anti-Stark. Since she already knows that Ned tried to save her life from Robert to the point of renouncing his handship (which IMO most men wouldn't do), and didn't change her mind or even want to more about the situation or him, I don't think anything will change her stance as Anti-Stark. She doesn't care about someone else's pov. Really what I want is for Dany to find the Red Door and have a happy life with someone, but the moment she lands in Westeros, I will be rooting against (and hoping she decides to fall back across the narrow sea and search for said peaceful life).

:agree: I used to root for Dany before, but by the end of ADwD, she's all about embracing her inner monster and "fire and blood". A foreign conqueror who doesn't know anything about the land she wants to conquer (with dragons!) is really not what Westeros needs right now. I hope she finds happiness in some way, but I don't think she'll find it by taking the Iron Throne.

[modbelle]

One of the things that I do find interesting is that I believe, much like Theon, she is pursuing a goal because she feels she "should" but that her heart is not really in it, what she really wants is the house with the red door, not the IT, but I'm not sure GRRM sees her that way, LOL.

I know! Poor Dany. We all know how well that worked out for Theon... I feel like she wouldn't have to suffer nearly so much if she went Red Door searching, and IMO she will be miserable if she gets the Iron Throne. She'll get more schemers on a larger scale. She will truly be isolated then, and not loved like I wanted for her.

[gash]

whenever dany says "i am but a girl, naive" etc she is being coy. how are people not getting that?

[modbelle]

:agree: I used to root for Dany before, but by the end of ADwD, she's all about embracing her inner monster and "fire and blood". A foreign conqueror who doesn't know anything about the land she wants to conquer (with dragons!) is really not what Westeros needs right now. I hope she finds happiness in some way, but I don't think she'll find it by taking the Iron Throne.

Agree. She will get me like Varys on the Iron Throne. She will end up fighting the Starks, IMO. How many people will root for her then? It's like my problem with Melisandre and burning the Seven and heart trees. She needs to adapt to the foreign culture like Nymeria was said to have done. The moment she "purchased" the Unsullied, I think Barristan was right that Westeros would never accept her.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

That seems like its making an excuse for her, because I'm not really talking about "bad" decisions per se, as everyone in power has made them in the series, but about how easily cruelty comes to her when she loses patience with compassion, and this is not something that is seen with Jon Snow or Robb Stark, Jon Snow in particular puts himself at extreme risk over his refusal to condone cruelty. You would never see Robb agree its okay to torture some guy's daughter to get info. out of him, this is something that the Roose Bolton's and the Tywin Lannisters do.

I guess she has a more ruthless kind of government, but at the same time, she's still very compassionate about her people and her dragons. I like her shades of grey, It's cruel, but she does not take pleasure in her decision, nor do we see her taking pleasure in any way. I do hope if she ever sits on the IT, she has grown as a leader. But I see her as a more "Queen Alysanne" Queen than "Maegor the Cruel". But that's me.

[Ser Cookie Monster]

You're forgetting Aegon IV, possibly the worst ruler ever mentioned in the series. The remnants of his reign are still out and about (Bloodraven, and possibly Faegon).

I think Baelor I The Blessed was pretty nuts, too.

[Cas Stark]

I guess she has a more ruthless kind of government, but at the same time, she's still very compassionate about her people and her dragons. I like her shades of grey, It's cruel, but she does not take pleasure in her decision, nor do we see her taking pleasure in any way. I do hope if she ever sits on the IT, she has grown as a leader. But I see her as a more "Queen Alysanne" Queen than "Maegor the Cruel". But that's me.

A lot of her compassion is like Doran Martell's plots, only in her head. She has done nothing but neglect and ignore the dragons, never looked for any info or scrolls or anything or anyone with knowledge on dragons, just oh my dragons, my children, blah, blah, blah, but then when its gets to be troublesome, oh, okay, chain them up, I gotta meet Dairio. I've just really lost almost all sympathy I ever had for her.

[devilrob6]

Because if you don't like Dany you hate women, if you don't like Sansa you dont like nice girls and you think that she deserved all the abuse from King's Landing, if you don't like Brienne you don't like warrior women and homely girls, if you don't like Jon you hate him for being a bastard, if you don't like Arianne you think sexually confident women are sluts, if you don't like Jaime you don't give people second chances, it can go on and on and on... Daenerys is a major POV characters with a complex personality with both good and bad in it, obviously people will react differently depending on what type of characters appeal to them, you know?

This is one of the things that make these books so great. People have a choice of who to like and support, based on the good and the bad things that the characters do. Dany and also Stannis seem to be the most polarising characters in the books. A lot of people either love or hate them.

[MasterJack]

I will like her when she understands how mean she is, become clearly the main antagonist and stop being hypocrite about it.

[Aleesha]

Agree. She will get me like Varys on the Iron Throne. She will end up fighting the Starks, IMO. How many people will root for her then? It's like my problem with Melisandre and burning the Seven and heart trees. She needs to adapt to the foreign culture like Nymeria was said to have done. The moment she "purchased" the Unsullied, I think Barristan was right that Westeros would never accept her.

I think she never really stood a chance in Westeros, even when Drogo was alive. The Dothrakis are the Essos version of the Ironborn, whom everyone in Westeros hates.

Initially I used to think that dragons would be the key to destroying the Others, which would help her in gaining the support of the people. Now I'm not so sure it would be that easy.

I guess she has a more ruthless kind of government, but at the same time, she's still very compassionate about her people and her dragons. I like her shades of grey, It's cruel, but she does not take pleasure in her decision, nor do we see her taking pleasure in any way. I do hope if she ever sits on the IT, she has grown as a leader. But I see her as a more "Queen Alysanne" Queen than "Maegor the Cruel". But that's me.

I agree Dany is compassionate, but she is easily swayed by her emotions. She was never meant to be a good leader IMO. In Meereen she had the chance to learn from her mistakes, but she never does.

[Ser Cookie Monster]

But I see her as a more "Queen Alysanne" Queen than "Maegor the Cruel". But that's me.

:rofl: No offense, but do you really remember who Queen Alysanne was? What she was like?

[Rhaenys Sand]

But I see her as a more "Queen Alysanne" Queen than "Maegor the Cruel". But that's me.

What....

[ManceRayder]

So, the first thing that she does of her own accord is seduce Drogo into what other readers call a beautiful love story. I call it Stockholm Syndrome. She does recognize that her brother would be an incompetent ruler of Westeros and that he was not nearly savvy enough to conquer it, but later on she fails to recognize that about herself.

The next instance where she exerts genuine agency is during the pillaging of the Lhazarene villages, which she handles terribly. Her husband is wounded and she freaks out. The mistake she makes here is trusting a Lhazarene woman to treat the wound. Regardless of whether or not Mirri Maz Duur poisoned Drogo, it was idiotic to trust someone who her Khalasar raped and whose friends the Khalasar raped, killed, or enslaved with Khal Drogo's life, especially considering that when Khal Drogo dies, it's a huge hit to Dany's Westeros ambitions and her desire for any fate that is not being cloistered away as a member of the Dosh Khaleen. Then she gets angry at Mirri for not making Khal Drogo as he was before his wound and for causing the death of Rhaego in utero and is incredulous that Mirri's debt to her for saving her life outweighs the harm done to her by being raped several times and watching everyone she knows succumbing to a fate at least as bad as her own. Then, when Drogo finally dies, she has alienated all of the higher-ups in Drogo's Khalasar, leaving her with no supplies for when she braves the red waste.

Also, she gets mad at Mago and Ko Jhaqo for raping and killing Eroeh after she tried to protect her. If you are going to keep to a Westerosi moral code for her, why do you have comparatively few misgivings about the general practice of the Dothraki to pillage and enslave for, in this case, ships to conquer the Seven Kingdoms.

In Qarth, she just goes around pathetically asking for help and is surprised that people are not willing to invest in her cause because she is blind to the notion that maybe she would not be an effective ruler.

I have no criticisms of her actions between the events at Qarth and her purchase of the unsullied, but I think it was idiotic to march on Yunkai and leave Astapor in the hands of whoever can seize power after having freed the slaves, thereby upending the economy of Astapor as well as the political situation. It is said later in Meereen that many slaves now starve because they cannot find work. The biggest part of the economy of Slaver's Bay is the slave trade, in no small part (at least in the mind of the nobles there) because of the Valyrian-Ghiscari war which ended with the sewing of salt in the fields of the Ghiscari empire and the burning of the trees that once grew on the Isle of Cedars. And now a teenage girl descended from the blood of Old Valyria has come to destroy their last remaining source of wealth. Of course those in power are going to reject that imposition, and when they do, the fact that the slaves were given a taste of freedom before ultimately being re-enslaved. If you can't end slavery a stable way, you shouldn't even try.

Also laying seige to Meereen was a mistake because it spelled the end of her ships and the end, or at least a huge impediment to her Westerosi ambitions. She should have taken her Unsullied and sellswords on her ships and landed in Dorne ane begun her conquest of Westeros. But instead, she decided to stay in Slaver's Bay, which was foolish because of the degree to which she was hated. She is not savvy like Tywin Lannister, who can rule despite being despised. She is young and unwise and she has nobody trustworthy to advise her besides Selmy who is honorable but has never needed to be bright politically, and so isn't. So she dismisses Jorah and instead takes advice from locals who seem to be on her side but many of whom we can surmise secretly hate her and plot her overthrow. Also, I should note that the fact that Jorah was in love with her was not something Dany should have holded against him, as it would only give him reason to try to preserve her life, and so I don't think he should not have been dismissed as he was.

She should have taken Hizdahr into custody when he said he thought he could put an end to the assassinations of the Sons of the Harpy for 90 days. She should not have tasked him with that because it put her into the awkward position of either being blamed for treating Hizdahr wrongly or blundering her way into marrying him. She made a promise that she shouldn't have been willing to keep.

Also, she confided in Galazza Galare that she was not willing to kill any of her hostages that she took. In doing so, she assumed that the Green Grace was trustworthy, which is pretty stupid considering the fact that all Meereenese should not be trusted unless it is evident that they are better off under Dany's rule. She should realize that she is an outsider and a terrible ruler in the eyes of the Meereenese, especially in the head of the local religion. Then, after she tells the Green Grace about not intending to kill her hostages, the Sons of the Harpy resume their killings, but she still fails to see that she is at least in league with the Harpy.

Dany is not intelligent, which is fine for a teenager. However, she is arrogant enough to assume that she knows best, which is dangerous in combination with her foolishness. Her biggest flaw is her inability to figure out what other people's motivations are and where her interests clash or coincide with the best interests of her acquaintances. In her treatment of Mirri Maz Duur, Jorah, Hizdahr, and the Green Grace, she has shown her self to be bad at sizing up whether someone is an ally or enemy. If she ever conquers the Iron Throne, I expect her reign to be short. She could never play the game of thrones with comparable skill as Littlefinger, Varys, or the ilk. Unless she matures in a way that experience has failed to do for her, if she conquers the seven kingdoms, which seems plausible given her level of inclusion in the plot, she will prove herself more capable of winning the throne than keeping it.

[Ser Cookie Monster]

I really really liked Dany during the first books. I wanted her to go back to Westeros and rule. In ASoS, her character started getting darker, yet I did not really care, I still liked her a lot and wanted her to sit the Iron Throne. In fact I found her way more interesting. However, very early in ADwD, I read something that made me change my mind.

A rich woman came, whose husband and sons had died defending the city walls. During the sack she had fled to her brother in fear. When she returned, she found her house had been turned into a brothel. The whores had bedecked themselves in her jewels. "They can keep the clothes", she allowed. Dany granted her the jewels but ruled the house was lost when she abandoned it.

Now, was it hard to please this woman? I don't think so. The woman didn't want anybody to be hanged, like many other people. She only wanted her house and her jewels back (the only things she had lef, since all her family died). She even allowed the whores to keep the clothes. Was it really hard to find another house or place for the whores to live? No. But Dany didn't do it. She just gave her the jewels (Oh! that's so much help!!) ... yeah sure...

What I find funny is that this woman is very similar to Dany. Those who were supposed to obey them, revealed against them - the slaves, and the other Noble Houses. Both of them fled their homes to be safe. But "the house was lost when she abandoned it". Which in Dany's logic means that she lost the Iron Throne.

I still find Dany interesting, but I don't like her anymore, nor hate her either. However, I absolutely do not want her to sit the Iron Throne, regardless of her dragons and what (f)Aegon said ("If you want to conquer the world, you bets have dragons"). Afterall, Westeros has suffered too much already, it deserves a better ruler.

[-Ghost-]

Only free men in Astapor are allowed to wear tokars. Not all free men in Astapor are slavers. The fringe on the tokar proclaims a mans status, a fact that Dany knows, so you cam kinda tell who is a slaver. Dany decides to kill anyone wearing a tokar.

[PrimeRhaegar]

i will admit she is disliked but she still has alot of fans who love her she is the justin bieber of the series

[Light a wight tonight]

I'm not upset, your comments have been fairly tame compared to what I've waded through (I've been to youtube comments and returned). I'm just pointing out that Stannis has yet burn an innocent man, which you were saying he did.

Also, just for interest, the author considers Stannis to be a righteous man.

I'm not sure Martin would consider "righteous" a 100% good quality. And self-righteous is a better descriptor of Stannis anyhow.

But this is a Dany thread.