Why does no one like Dany?

[Lord Illidan Stormrage]

i mean there were peace in the 7K until Aegon came and conquered them. he killed and burned thousands of people.

during their rule there were several civil wars, most of their kings were crazy or cruel.

Robert and Ned did a great job removing the Targaryens

What kind of piece - the kingdoms were constantly at war? It became much more peaceful when they were united.

[Sansa_Stark]

Source?

Wasn't it said that before the conquest, there wasn't a time two kingdoms weren't at war with each other. I remember Aemon saying this.

But I don't think the Targs brought peace with them. They may have made wars more infrequent, but a unified realm made them all massive.

Dance with Dragons, Blackfyre Rebellions, Dorne Conquest, Robert's Rebellion, War of 5 Kings.

[E-Ro]

Yeah, a war pre conquest is two maybe three kindoms. War post conquest is a continent wide world war of westeros.

[Direwolfsigil]

You cant really compare Stannis execution of criminals and danys execution of, well random people she doesnt like. Fascinating that Stannis comes up in a thread about dany, I guess the best defense is a good offense?

Just really trying to emphasize that its funny how its so easy for hate Stannis for burning traitors, yet so easy to love Dany for having slavers disemboweled, it doesnt seem fair unless its put in perspective.

SInce Stannis is not very well liked, ( at least i thought until i came here) i figured itd be easy to contrast the reactions their actions get.

[MotherAnduin]

Yeah, a war pre conquest is two maybe three kindoms. War post conquest is a continent wide world war of westeros.

I think the first time northmen and Dornish fought was during Robert's rebellion. If the kingdoms were separate, there would be very little chance of kingdoms that don't share a border to be at war.

[King Aerys the Just]

Wasn't it said that before the conquest, there wasn't a time two kingdoms weren't at war with each other. I remember Aemon saying this.

But I don't think the Targs brought peace with them. They may have made wars more infrequent, but a unified realm made them all massive.

Dance with Dragons, Blackfyre Rebellions, Dorne Conquest, Robert's Rebellion, War of 5 Kings.

Yeah.

Clearly they didn't bring absolute peace with them, but it's reasonable to assume that Westeros became a bit more peaceful than before the Conquest at least. Of those examples you brought up Robert's Rebellion probably wasn't all that bloody, even though it took place over a large area. This because it was both very short as far as medieval wars go, and pretty much decided after one very large field battle in the center of the realm. The Dornish Conquests just sound like a regional conflict to me, probably no different than the various attempts the seven kingdoms of the past made to conquer each other in terms of size and scope. The other wars you bring up excepting the War of the Five Kings, which though destructive isn't really the Targaryens fault either since it is pretty much a symptom of Westeros reverting back to its normal state of affairs due to their fall, we don't know enough about to make a judgment IMO. But I wouldn't automatically equate more kingdoms involved with bloodier wars. For all we know the Dance of the Dragons could have largely revolved around Targaryens facing off against each other in the skies now and then rather than lots of bloody, drawn out ground warfare. Since holding castles and gathering large armies wouldn't be all that important strategically against enemies that had dragons anyway.

Another indication of the Targaryen peace is that the Night's Watch has declined so much in size and quality after the Conquest, since it used to get its recruits by prisoners of war from conflicts between the various kingdoms taking the black. That stream of people seems to have dried up after Aegon unified the kingdoms.

[Blue Winter Roses]

I like Dany. I don't care if that makes me simple-minded or predictable. She is hypocritical but she does find herself in some difficult situations, which she tackles wholeheartedly. She is a fascinating mix of characteristics, which makes her a likable and interesting character IMO.

[jons nissa]

lol I like Dany's character development a lot actually.

a 14 year old girl who has to rule a city and fight damnable cruel harpies is a set up for failure.. I hope no one really expected her to do a good job. There's a reason Westeros has a small council and lord paramounts with their own bannermen.

this so much!

Morally good characters aren't necessarily interesting characters aren't necessary likeable/sympathetic characters.

Here's my opinion on Dany with respect to those three dimensions:

if i may borrow your set-up:

morally good? not as much as she could be. she has made some questionable decisions, some for purely selfish reasons. but no where near as reprehensible as some others in asoiaf. she's definitely grey.

interesting character? yes. her arc is very interesting and she has been our eyes in a very different part of martin's world. she has shown significant growth in a very short amount of time, and most of it happens without much input from others. talk about a "self-made" character.

likeable? yes. i think she's over come a great deal to arrive where she is and while she has definitely made mistakes, i think that is the whole point of her story. no one is born magically "knowing" the answer to everything and learning on the job can have some serious consequences. i also love how her arc is being developed because i anticipate her being seen as a villain by the westerosi.

[E-Ro]

Just really trying to emphasize that its funny how its so easy for hate Stannis for burning traitors, yet so easy to love Dany for having slavers disemboweled, it doesnt seem fair unless its put in perspective.

SInce Stannis is not very well liked, ( at least i thought until i came here) i figured itd be easy to contrast the reactions their actions get.

I agree with you, and yeah Stannis is well loved here. I am a kings man, and Stannis is my king. Not only is he the one true king of westeros but hes also an extremely just person and at his core he wants whats best for the realm. Also he is the biggest badass in westeros.

[Sansa_Stark]

I'd like her if she became a mad queen but wasn't completely immoral like Cersei.

[Aelos]

Maegor the Cruel?

He wasn't crazy though. He only thought to end an Uprising in rather unorthodox way....

Anyway, the Stannis and general Targaryen discussion belongs in other threads..

Even though I really want to comment on Stannis burning traitors to a Kingdom that doesn't exist. Like I said before, each one of us reads the books differently as the others.. I disliked Stannis from the start and might have gotten a bit sceptical as I got further into the books, but I understand that there are many more ways to read certain passages (like the whole crackpot theories prove, imo).

[jons nissa]

I'd like her if she became a mad queen but wasn't completely immoral like Cersei.

you may get your wish before all is said and done.

[Tommen]

She's a massive hypocrite, her whole "I am but a girl", her never ending list of titles to name a few.

When she says that "I am but a girl" bit, I usually take that as humour. More like she's playing with the low expectations that the men have of her as a female leader in order to make her point about her own aptitude. Like she doesn't actually expect people to take the "I am but a young girl" at face value. It's kind of obnoxious I guess :)

[TheCasualObserver]

I don't so much hate Dany as find her frustrating. I can admire he decision to try and eradicate slavery but the attempt was really doomed to failure and still is. After three books of claiming that she will return to claim her birthright, she stays in Mereen to try and rule effectively, yet fails consistently. Worse, once she flies off on Drogon we realize that she thinks her absence will have little effect on the peace her marriage brought her, even though open war is already upon the city. Unlike Stannis, who is a just man under the thrall of a bad adviser (Melisandre), Dany has Ser Barristen Selmy to help her, yet ignores him at every opportunity.

As a modern reader I'm also extremely uncomfortable with the whole "beautiful white queen teaches ignorant foreigners about morals" angle. And I don't buy her love for Khal Drogo either.

[OuterZan]

Because incompetent 14 years old girl with dragons and an army of slaves is more dangerous to westeros than the Others are.

[Manderlay]

Daenerys has been very annoying, she changed the slaver's bay which is in an continent that is not her home, she calls Eddard Usurpers Dogs but herself till now hasn't yet found the strength to hear the truth about her father Aerys II, doesn't matter if she told Ser Barristan that she wants to know one day, She thinks of herself as the mother and savior but abandons Astapor and leaves for Yunkai, if she freed slaves and sacks a city shouldn't she complete the task of controlling all the slaver cities like yunkai but she goes on to Maereen and puts people on poles with their entrails hanging who might have been innocent.

Now that she has disturbed the balance of the slavers bay instead of seeing it through she backs out and let Hizdar make peace with the slavers, isn't it her duty to make sure no more slaves are made in the slaver's bay after she started the whole damm thing, especially if she thinks herself of mother and breaker of chains what about the slaves of the Yunkai?

[moonsblood]

She's completely negligent and irresponsible with her so called "children" its like having a big mean dog and only teaching it to attack. And then she is shocked when a child is killed. Then to deal with the problem she just locks the dragons up in a pyramid. Mother of the year. I don't hate Dany but this is one of the many reasons its sometimes very hard to like her.

[Jabronius Maximus]

Once again wrong, the only legitamtely crazy Targ king was Aerys II and while some of them were appalling rulers, none of them have had a noticeable cruel streak...

You're forgetting Aegon IV, possibly the worst ruler ever mentioned in the series. The remnants of his reign are still out and about (Bloodraven, and possibly Faegon).

[Woftis]

When she says that "I am but a girl" bit, I usually take that as humour. More like she's playing with the low expectations that the men have of her as a female leader in order to make her point about her own aptitude. Like she doesn't actually expect people to take the "I am but a young girl" at face value. It's kind of obnoxious I guess :)

But that's exactly why it's irritating. She's trying to be obnoxious but she is but a young girl that knows nothing of the way of war, otherwise, she wouldn't be doing such a catastrophic job.

[The Great Walrus]

You're forgetting Aegon IV, possibly the worst ruler ever mentioned in the series. The remnants of his reign are still out and about (Bloodraven, and possibly Faegon).

Yeah, he deserved a mention...