BlackBrother55

Who has the most right to the Iron Throne

86 posts in this topic

Actually, it will be R+L Jon when he comes back, assuming they were wed. Right now I guess it's Stannis, but GR probably spoiled his death via got Season5

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I might as well have as much right to the Iron Throne as anyone has (at least with all that i know as far as the second book). In all seriousness I would say that it is Daenerys whom has the most right the the throne. 

makes no sense. dany and stannis are cousins. until all males in the line are deceased no female can be claimant. dany is pretty much behind every living baratheon and targaryen even shireen

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its seems some of my fellow readers of ASOIAF & viewers of GOT don't really understand how royal/noble succession works (that is, laying "claim" to a throne or royal/noble title), & it also seems that some of us are dwelling a little to much on surnames (ie Targayen or Baratheon). The culture of Westeros, just like the real dark age/medieval/renaissance societies that GRRM was inspired by, is based wholly on 3 very important concepts - precedence, legitimacy, & one's pedigree. In other words - where one's royal line began, if one's parents were married or not at the time one's birth, & what family one was born into. The other concept is just how royal/noble one's parents are - for example, in nearly all royal/noble cultures a King or Lord cannot have his heir with a peasant girl or Kitchen wench - both parents must be of relatively the same social rank.

 

Let us remember a few very important things -

 

1st - before Aegon I conquered Westeros there was no precedent for one personage ruling the whole of Westeros simultaneously. That means that the royal line begins with him & his legitimate offspring. After the "Dance of the Dragons" it would seem that royal females were barred from succession to the throne in what is called "salic law", or absolute male-preference primogeniture (I cannot recall if this was an actual legal concept in ASOIAF or if it was merely by convention). Whatever the case, a royal male could still lay claim to the throne via a female ancestor. A royal female, it seems, can succeed only if there are no male claimants.

 

2nd - in spite of the alleged kidnapping of Lyanna Stark by Prince Rhaegar & the disastrous rule of King Aerys II, Robert Baratheon quickly gained support from the great houses not only because he was an attractive immediate alternative to the King but, simply put, Robert himself had the Targaryen pedigree (his paternal grandmother was a Targaryen Princess or, according to the simplified family tree of the TV show, it was his mother who was a Targaryen). Should one follow the Targaryen succession rules (meaning women cannot inherit), then at the start of the rebellion Robert was 4th in line to the throne after Rhaegar, the infant Aegon, & Viserys.

 

With Robert dead & Joffery & Tommen being Lannister bastards, the throne should pass to Stannis Baratheon. But things get tricky here - if one follows gender-blind primogeniture (like many of the modern-day European monarchies such as Sweden, The Netherlands, Norway, Denmark), then it is Daenarys Targaryen who is the rightful successor & then Stannis after her. But if one follows the male-only route, then it is Stannis 1st, his daughter 2nd, & then Dany 3rd.

 

Mind you, I am only following birth order here (not dragons or magic or who is more liked than who), but pedigree is very important in a world of royals & nobles ... this concept is the entire reason why Tywin is Lord of Casterly Rock, why Mace Tyrell is Lord of Highgarden, why Ned Stark was Lord of Winterfell, etc., etc.

thats the thing asoiaf is not gender blind, clearly males have more claim than females

Edited by Minkowski

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Daenerys knows nothing about "her" Seven Kingdoms and she did'nt want know any important things about them. I think.
Stannis Baratheon is - is Westerosi. He lived there. He know every single lord's military power and how many has he bannermen.
Not Daenerys then. My vote for - Stannis! Stannis! STANNIS!

Stannis is too cold to be king. He does not understand people, and you need to understand people to rule wisely.

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Mad king didn't understand people either, yet he was king.

And look how that turned out. They all decided screw lineage and the order of succession, this guy is awful, let's get rid! When Kings don't understand people and have unhealthy obsessions with fire THEY END UP NOT BEING KING. (Sorry if I come across a little over the top, I really don't like Stannis)

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And look how that turned out. They all decided screw lineage and the order of succession, this guy is awful, let's get rid! When Kings don't understand people and have unhealthy obsessions with fire THEY END UP NOT BEING KING. (Sorry if I come across a little over the top, I really don't like Stannis)


Question how does stannis not understand people?

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Question how does stannis not understand people?

He does not understand laughter or joy, or many human emotions. Or why people do certain things. Give me a sec and I'll grab ya some quotes.

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As Addam has said upthread, the question is not who deserves the Iron Throne, but who has a legitimate claim to it. I would say Stannis first, then Daenerys

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As Addam has said upthread, the question is not who deserves the Iron Throne, but who has a legitimate claim to it. I would say Stannis first, then Daenerys

And why not the other way around? ;)

Targaryens were first, or is it because Baratheons beat them 'fair' and square? 

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I believe that Right of Conquest works in Westeros

I think the situation when Robert became king was that he became king by conquest, and because of the old Baratheon family connection to Targaryen. So the Baratheons have a very strong claim, but Dany is very close behind

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Stannis.

The Targaryens won their Throne through conquest. Then lost it to the Baratheons by conquest.

(F)Aegon is fake. Dany is a woman. Tommen is a bastard. Moonboys a fool. Stanis wouldn't be the best king but he is the rightful king..

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 Stannis the Mannis for sure .

 

He does not understand laughter or joy, or many human emotions. Or why people do certain things. Give me a sec and I'll grab ya some quotes.

Yes but unlike the mad king ,Stannis isn't paranoid. 

Edited by Sword of Mutilation

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I believe that Right of Conquest works in Westeros

I think the situation when Robert became king was that he became king by conquest, and because of the old Baratheon family connection to Targaryen. So the Baratheons have a very strong claim, but Dany is very close behind

Fair enough.For me personally Renly was the one who I like most from Baratheons. I had those feelings for him since the end of AGoT, he is one of those few who actually wanted to resolve that situation with good idea imo :)

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Fair enough.For me personally Renly was the one who I like most from Baratheons. I had those feelings for him since the end of AGoT, he is one of those few who actually wanted to resolve that situation with good idea imo :)

I loved Renly thought he was ok and a funny guy and he wanted to punish the Lannisters, avenge Robbert and heal the realm but really though he was a flamboyant fool. Olenna and Stannis pretty much nailed him on that count.

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I'm fiercely pro-Dany, on a personal level I just love her, so I'll start by saying that her claim to birthright is the best here. She is the Last Targaryen, the family that united the continent and which produced, the Madness of the last one notwithstanding, a lot of good kings by all accounts.

If we accept the Baratheons' Right of Conquest, it's Stannis by a lot.

But really the breakup of at least some of the Seven Kingdoms might be best. The North and Dorne are certainly better off on their own, and a king is probably better off who doesn't have to worry about trying to rule over them. The Iron Islands are also a nice natural kingdom, but I doubt the mainlanders would be better off with them independent. The middle part of Westeros would probably not ever be stable as separate kingdoms. Arryn could separate nicely, its isolationism is embedded in all its buildings, but the others would probably just be in constant fruitless battle over the lands in the middle. Best case scenario is a Middle Westeros under Stannis (maybe overthrown by a triumphantly returning Daenerys, if the gods be good), with some of the peripheral kingdoms splitting off on their own so the middle part can be more stable. Let Pyke be the seat of a kingdom, but do what you can to keep the reaving within the bounds of reason.

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Stannis-I want a king who doesn't cause smallfolks to starve (Renly did it by blocking Kings Road, the move didn't effect nobles getting food) or an king who make the situation worse  (Joffrey). Unlike Renly,  Stannis would not think being king as a game. sure Stannis would not be popular but he has a people person like Davos to help him. Stannis would at least get rid of  Blount but he would keep Balon Swann(Swann earned place in KG).

One of the  problems with Renly is that he seem to be friends with LF(they joke and got along together in the first book). I doubt  you want an King who got along good with someone who could match Tywin in cruelty like LF.

Edited by Batbob45

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I would say that the person who ends up on the throne has the most right, with birth being irrelevant. 

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Stannis Baratheon before the War of Five Kings had the right, anybody who wins it has the right once they start a War ;)

But as Pseudodemtrius said several parts of Westeros would be better off with independence, The North, Dorne, The Vale and Iron Islands for start.

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