James West

If ever a murder can be considered a heroic act, it is Bowen Marsh and his men stabbing Jon Snow.  This won't prevent all of the bad things happening due to Jon's actions but it will avoid the Night's Watch from becoming an enemy of the Boltons.  It is not about honor.  It keeps the Night's Watch from becoming the law-breaker and limits the guilt to just Jon Snow.  All of the guilt is on top of Jon's narrow shoulders.  

Sore loser is Stannis Baratheon.  He was humiliated by Tyrion and he still won't accept it.  

15 hours ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

The company she kept and keeps are only making Arya's condition worse.  A lot of the readers liked the Hound but he was messed up in his own way. 

I will grant her that.  Bad company contributed to her emotional and mental damage.  Push Arya to the widlings side of the wall and keep her there.  I would accept that solution given she suffers from mental illness and young age.  Her insanity interferes with her decisions.  

9 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

the additional challenge of controlling a plague and rebuilding a broken economy.

Which is the kind of experience you want in a ruler who will have to rebuild at the end of the long night.  I would like to see her build a new empire of the dawn to begin the cycle again.  Dany will be great.  

On 2/1/2023 at 10:17 PM, Bowen 747 said:

Been said pretty much by everyone.  Jon being male puts him at the highest risk for going insane if he is the child of Lyanna and Rhaegar.  It seems the data implies Targaryen + Targaryen do not increase the chances but rather reduces the likelihood of the child going mad. 

Valyria would not have ruled for 5000 years if their leading families were going crazy.  The Dragonlords and their families were close to genetic perfection.  

The execution of Jon Snow is one of the most discussed topics.  Bowen Marsh, a minor character, was right in executing the rogue commander, Jon Snow.  The chapters leading up to it were very carefully written to show why Jon was in the wrong and why the Crows had to take him down.  

On 1/17/2023 at 6:36 PM, Shierak Qiya said:

That Lysa is nuts is evident.  Her son is underdeveloped emotionally, socially, and intellectually too.  There could be an issue with little Lord Robert as well.  Catelyn's sanity left her during her last moments as a living person.  So yes, there are causes for concern and the presence of a gene which predisposes the Tullys to going nuts is worthy of concern that should not be ignored. 

Definitely cannot be ignored.  It's not proof but the evidence of madness in the Tully line is there.   It is surely more than enough cause for concern for any Tully or Stark fan because it means Catelyn's children inherited it.  

On 1/16/2023 at 1:56 PM, Victor Newman said:

Lysa was definitely mentally and emotionally unstable.  Cat's kids have as good of a chance as a Targaryen of going insane. 

True.  They do.  

On 12/23/2022 at 9:51 AM, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

That's going to make a spectacular finale when the hero -who Dany? Maybe Euron? doesn't matter... kicks down the door to the cave, rushes in and stabs the hell out of the 13 year old boy stuck inside the roots of a tree. Maybe that's what Aemon was going on about when he was telling Jon to 'kill the boy'.

Bran is not just a boy when it happens.  He will have turned into something profane and dangerous.  Somebody who invades people's dreams and minds and violates them.  Worse even than the slave masters of Mereen.  

19 hours ago, Sydney Mae said:

Arya is half Tully.  The Tully sisters went mad.  Lysa was always so.  Cat lost her sanity at the red wedding.  Arya's bloodline make her vulnerable as well. 

There is no escaping this.  True.  

19 hours ago, Sydney Mae said:

The Tully sisters went mad.  Catelyn Tully-Stark and Lysa Tully-Arryn were showing signs of madness and emotional fragility.  Lysa had it from her youth to her death.  Catelyn lost it at the wedding.  She cut Aegon Frey's throat and killed him.  Catelyn went mad that minute.  There is insanity in the Tully blood.  Robb, Sansa, Arya, Bran, and Rickon are half Tully.  Cat's brood inherited the gene predisposing them to insanity.  I know stress can trigger the disease.   

Oh what a find. It's one more thing to consider when discussing the sanity of Arya and Jon.  

On 1/14/2023 at 9:24 AM, Damsel in Distress said:

I posted a comment on this in 2017. 

If R + L = J is true, then Jon Snow is the one who will go insane.  He will have incidences of insanity from the Stark as well as the Targaryen side.  His kin, Arya Stark, is already insane. 

 

I edited, updated, and re-posted below:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

Rumors of Targaryen Madness is an Exaggeration.  And a slander against the ruling House Targaryen. 

 

The prevalence of the madness that runs in the family is exaggerated.  A careful study of the Targaryen lineage shows that this madness is not as prevalent as their enemies would have us believe.

 

    Targaryen + Targaryen = Maegor the Cruel
    Arryn + Targaryen = Rhaenyra
    Hightower + Targaryen = Aegon II
    Rogare + Targaryen = Aegon IV
    Velaryon + Targaryen = Baelor the Blessed
    Dayne + Targaryen = Aerion Brightflame
    Kiera + Targaryen = Vaela
    Targaryen + Targaryen = Aerys II

 

In red - female parent. Non-Targaryen female parent. 

Italics – unclear whether these people were mad or simply just cruel. Vaela is likely someone who just had a below average mental capacity. 

What interests me most is that the majority of the so-called “mad” members of the family were not the direct result of T + T but rather the result of what appears to be normal pairings.  A second item of note is that the madness happens more often when the mother comes from outside the family.  This means the carriers of the madness are the male Targaryens.  Thirdly, because we are dealing with a fantasy world in which real genetics may not completely hold true, we can assume that anyone whose father is a Targaryen will have an equal chance of going mad as any other member of the family with a Targaryen father.  Also note that we have not had a female Targaryen of whom we can clearly point out as mad.  None.  Rhaenyra was a b* but being a difficult person does not make one mad.  Maegor was cruel but that doesn’t mean he was mad.  If cruelty alone make one mad then Tywin and Stannis could be labeled insane. 

 

Implications are as follows:

 

    1.  The Targaryens are the most prominent family in the series of A Song of Ice and Fire.  I do not believe George R R Martin will end this family line.  I think the family just needed a fresh start and based on my theory that the males carry the potentially damaging gene it makes sense to eliminate the male line and begin anew with a perfect Targaryen female.  Who is, of course, the Mother of Dragons herself, Daenerys Targaryen.
    2.  The Targaryen dragons also needed a refresh.  The heroine delivered once more and hatched three eggs.
    3.  Daenerys Targaryen is just fine.  She will not go mad.  Her future children are not going to go mad. 
    4.  Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon.  Should this theory of his parentage prove to be true, that Rhaegar is the father and Lyanna Stark the mother, it is very likely that it will be Jon who will go insane.

 My verdict?  Jon has a much greater chance of going mad than Daenerys. 

The incidence of madness is not even high.  The Targaryens were in the spotlight for 300 years and only Aerys and Aerion were mental.  I don't think Dany will go mental.  

I am biased to M + L = J (M = Mance Rayder).  You are right though.  R + L = J puts Jon at a greater risk for madness if it truly runs in the family and not some sabotage from the Maesters poisoning the Targaryens.  

11 hours ago, Wolf's Bane said:

So Arya is Darkheart.  What does that make Rickon and Sansa?  Rickon will be the Wildheart.  Sansa isn't a Sweetheart so she must be Broken Heart. 

Bran will be the heart of winter.  He will be the antagonists  in the last book, the final Boss whose defeat will bring back the light.

On 12/21/2022 at 12:32 PM, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

Merry Chrismas.  May the Lord bless you and keep your family safe during this holiday season.  

Daenerys Targaryen is a better ruler and leader than Jon Snow.  We are all familiar with their leadership styles.  There is enough information for us to pass judgment on who the better leader is.  I will start with Jon Snow.

Jon Snow

Jon is far from the worst leader in A Song of Ice and Fire.  He is actually capable most of the time.  His biggest strength as a leader is his ability to teach.  Jon was able to teach the other less-fortunate cadets the proper use of the sword in combat.  Yes, he was an arrogant and entitled fool when he arrived.  A little man to man talk with a seasoned man helped open his eyes.  Many of the fans praise Jon for protecting the craven cadet, Samwell Tarly.  It is a well-earned praise.  Samwell would have died from fright if Jon had not stepped in and helped. 

I have established that Jon Snow is basically an average guy who has had good training in the fighting arts.  As a leader, he is usually capable of performing his job.  However, he has big problems beneath his exterior.  Many of the fans have already brought it up repeatedly.   Jon has a chip on his shoulders.  Push that chip and he goes ballistic.  He is guilty of attacking Ser Alliser Thorne, a man of higher rank and status.  He has anger management issues which culminated in the inappropriate way in which he judged two guilty men, Janos Slynt and Mance Rayder.  By every laws of the land, it should have been the deserter and traitor, Mance Rayder, who was executed.  Matters went downhill from there.  He sent the deserter and turncloak to bring his sister to him at the Wall.  This is an act of war against Roose and Ramsay Bolton.  The Night's Watch should never, and never has until now, make war against the people of The Seven Kingdoms. 

I served in the military for a significant part of my early adult life.  I have never been tested in the same way as Jon was with Arya.  I will say there are a lot of men who would do as Jon did.  They would forsake their duties, no matter how critical it is, to save their sisters.  But there are still more who would do their duties and accept that they cannot help their sisters.  For proof, you only have to look at those men who are in the business of rescuing and saving people and property.  Many men would rather be at home with their families during an emergency crisis but instead they stay at their posts and do their jobs.  I knew people who went to Kuwait while they had desperate families back home.  Parents battling cancer.  Wives struggling to raise handicapped children alone.  I could go on and on.  The point is, it is not unreasonable nor is it rare for people to do their jobs even when they have critical family concerns back home.  And those men who can't do this should never be in command.  It's fine for desk jockey to always sacrifice his duties for his families.  But that is not acceptable for a commander of an organization who has been tasked with the protection of the kingdom from an existential threat. 

Quorin Halfhand said something in book 2.  He said of Mance Rayder, he was the best and the worst of us.  He had trouble obeying.  Jon is very much like Mance Rayder.  In many ways, he is the ideal black brother.  But he is also the worst possible.  Jon is a man gifted with martial skills.  He is a smart young man who usually makes sound decisions.  I don't think his inability to judge and prioritize will matter much with the Wildlings.  To the Free Folk, whatever the strong man says is right is right.  Might makes right with the Wildlings.  Jon does not have to be fair, nor consistent.  Laws among the Wildlings are not as well-defined. 

Daenerys Targaryen

Princess Daenerys Targaryen began the story a scared and nervous young girl.  Forced to marry into an alien culture, she used her natural intelligence to thrive.  Courage, intelligence, and determination allowed her to adapt to the Dothraki culture.  She brought the dragons back from extinction.  She had the smarts and the courage to lead her khalasar beyond the Red Waste until they reached Vaes Tolorro.  This is nothing less than remarkable for a girl of her age.  She defeated the Undying in the Palace of Dust with the help of her dragon, Drogon.  Over and over, Daenerys has managed to use her intelligence and her cunning to outmaneuver her adversaries.  She has become a very good player of the game of thrones with a style all her own. 

Queen Daenerys has become the conqueror and the ruler of the slaver city of Meereen.  She knows what we know.  As humans, we have a responsibility to make laws and judge the guilty.  The Meereenese masters perpetrated the most heinous war crime in the entire saga so far.  This is many times more heinous than the Red Wedding in The Twins.  The masters crucified the children of their slaves and used them to decorate the road to the city.  This kind of crime cannot go unpunished.  To do so would be to deny justice to those children.  Allowing the Meereenese to bring forth the guilty is a modern concept of peers judging peers.  It is certainly preferable to the arbitrary trial of combat being practiced in Westeros.  She is facing an enemy who refuse to fight her troops in open combat.  And yet, she refused to execute her cup bearers.  This was a smart move.  Those children can be socialized and educated away from their slaver parents.  These children will be the foundation of a free Slaver's Bay. 

The situation in Meereen is very complicated.  Skahaz, Reznak, and Hizdahr are unreliable allies.  Daenerys has been warned to be careful by Quaithe.  Yet, she reacts with reason and caution.  Cersei would have had them all killed.  But a good leader knows that you have to trust people.  Everything carries a risk.  One person cannot manage a city of the size of Meereen.  Jorah's betrayal is revealed.  Daenerys wisely did not kill the man and instead sent him into exile.  Daenerys is a reflective, thoughtful person.  Which is a good quality for someone who has to make decisions.  She has some learning to do but her potential as a ruler is without limits.  I would choose her to rule Westeros.  

Dany manages prophecies better than any other.  She doesn't overly react but instead take a watchful and cautious approach.  I like her.  She deserves to win the great game of thrones and rule.  

 We have to decide how to judge Arya.  She is indeed an evil murderer if she still has enough sanity to hold responsible.  She is an unwitting victim if she has lost enough of her sanity to be considered mentally incapacitated to make decisions.  

On 10/29/2022 at 10:41 AM, Kierria said:

Sweetrobin is slowly being poisoned.  It is not yet a crime of murder because the child is still alive but Sansa is part of the insidious plot to murder the child and take all that is his.  Will Sansa go through with the murder?  The odds are close to even but does lean lightly to Sansa doing the crime. 

Look back on Sansa's past and tell me what you think.  Tell me what you think will happen. 

The Sansa we know is a selfish girl who has delusions of her own grandeur.  Sweetrobin is a dead bird if Sansa ever got the notion to kill him to benefit herself.  

The Unsullied are the elite fighting corps of Daenerys Targaryen's armed forces.  Best of the best.  

Dany's childhood was like Egg's.  They were both seen as the unlikely and yet they became rulers.  She flew under the radar because most assumed her brothers would rule.  The crones assumed a son would rule over all of the khalasars.  Rhaegar assumed his son will be the promised one.  They were mistaken.  Dany is the fulfillment of the Azor Ahai prophecy.  The return of the dragons from petrified eggs is Martin's version of Arthur pulling a sword from a stone.  Dany pulled dragons from stone.  Egg himself was an egg that failed to hatch.  Rhaegar's Egg (Aegon) also failed to hatch.  Dany is a female Aegon.  To quote Tyrion "she is Aegon the Conqueror with tits."  She walked into the fire and the dragons came back out with her.  Aegon V and Rhaegar failed.  Dany succeeded because she is AA.  Arthur was the only one who can pull the sword, Dany was the only one who can bring back the dragons from stone.  

On 4/5/2020 at 12:14 PM, Wm Portnoy said:

I see a gender reversal going on with the kings in the hallway and Daenerys.  Dragons are not bound by gender.  That may be the advantage for Daenerys. 

"He told me the moon was an egg, Khaleesi.  Once there were two moons in the sky, but one wandered too close to the sun and cracked from the heat.  A thousand thousand dragons poured forth and drank the fire of the sun.  That is why dragons breathe flame.  One day, the other moon will kiss the sun too, and it will crack and the dragons will return."  [Doreah]

"Moon is no egg.  Moon is god, woman wife of the sun." [Irri]

In this case, Khal Drogo was the one who got too close to Daenerys and got burned.  Fire consumes after all.  His death brought Drogon, Viserion, and Rhaegal.  Daenerys represent the Sun, the Maiden Made Of Light.  Khal Drogo was the Moon.  It is easy to see why Qaithe wants her to go to Asshai.  She can bring the sun back to that darkened city. 

 

Doreah's words were soon proven true.  The poor woman died soon after the birth of the dragons but at least she had the privilege and the honor of being there for the miracle.  She lived long enough to see her Khaleesi become Azor Ahai.