Lord Godric

1 minute ago, TigerA said:

At least Sansa doesn't have to be worried about the food supply and all those mouths to feed anymore. They're probably lucky to have 30% of the mouths they had at the start of the episode.

Although Dany's either going to have to rally more troops from the other lords of Westeros, use her dragons or rely on Ninja/Assassin/Faceless badass Arya to infiltrate Kings Landing and slit Cersei's throat.

Judging by the preview there are more people living than the episode would lead us to think, also I'm confident that Yara will have a whole big army to give Dany. 

I think it's a bit silly to suggest that Sansa should be out on a battlefield. Even book Sansa has no value with a sword, her skill is political machinations. Now you can criticize the show for having her seem pathetic while down in the crypts, she could have been keeping their spirits up (throwback to Blackwater) or thinking of a tactical way they could help. But to expect her to actually fight in any physical way is laughable. 

Has no one yet mentioned my new favorite theory, Melisandre is Syrio Forel

1 minute ago, AndréaV said:

Yeah, I'm trying to find anything to connect her brother to "smoke and salt" but haven't figured that out yet.....

But that is the only problem with the AA prophecy. The other part of the prophecy where it says she would forget the Lightbringer sword, it could finge any number of scenes where that dagger has been used and "forged"

I'm surprised people consider prophecies to be things that must happen. We've seen prophecies be completely avoided before, I don't think there is any indication that prophecies MUST come true, just that they are a possibility. 

Just now, SansaJonRule said:

Yes, seeing as Martin has made a point to avoid the usual fantasy tropes, a happily ever after ending would seem out of character for him.

I don't think we'll have happily ever after, but I think people give GRRM too much credit with "avoiding usual fantasy tropes." Martin, of course, had a few big moments like killing Ned and the Red Wedding, but at its core the series has been a traditional "Rightful King Returns" trope and nothing he's done so far suggests the series won't end with Jon or Dany (although I suspect Jon) sitting on a throne. 

5 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

In a nutshell, yes. That a problem? Are only those who’ll heap praise on it allowed to watch and comment? 

I would think that if you hate it and it just makes you angry year after year, you'd save yourself that frustration. Of course people can complain, but if you despise the show and never have a good thing to say, you're just being angry for the sake of it and look like a hipster, hating what everyone else likes. 

1 minute ago, kissdbyfire said:

What story? The show has no stories, just OMFG moments, regardless of how utterly preposterous and nonsensical they are. 

Why are you still watching? Just to complain about how much you hate it? 

Just now, Larger than Average Finger said:

All I am really saying is that its not certain that the same charterer will do the same things in the books. Frankly I would be willing to bet that for some details Martin will write it differently just so its different, if he ever write an ending.

He's previously said he wouldn't do this, and I think if he's trying to it's going to be a disservice to his own writing and planning. It'd be absurd for him to change his story just because they already did the story he gave them. 

3 minutes ago, divica said:

If we are being honest the NK doesn t seem to exist in the books...

Touche. 

1 minute ago, Ser Gareth said:

I'm not claiming anything.  D&D didn't know the entire story when AGOT first started.  The idea was to use the book material as inspiration for the entire show.  When it was clear the source material was going to dry up they sat down and had a series of meetings with GRRM where they went through all the major character arcs and outstanding plot points.

GRRM has confirmed this too by stating he thinks the main characters will end up in the same place in the books and show but that some minor character arcs will be different (e.g. Beric is already long dead in the books).

Yeah, I understand. Which is why I'm curious if this is something GRRM told them, or not. Three years ago they would have already had this conversation with George because three years ago they released Season 6, which goes beyond the books, and would have had to be in the writing process at least 4 years ago. The timeline they've stated is what I'm curious about. 

Just now, Larger than Average Finger said:

The know the dead are defeated, probably by killing their leader, but who kills him was probably not done by Martin.

They were told which side won not much more.

What do you have to back this up? Like I said, Martin himself said a few weeks ago that "But there may be – on certain secondary characters, there may be big differences.” Suggesting that he told them more than what you're claiming for the major characters. 

1 minute ago, Ser Gareth said:

They didn't know the ending 3 years ago.  When it became apparent that GRRM wasn't going to finish the books, that the show was relying on for source material, they sat down with GRRM for a few days and went through what GRRM had planned for the ending.

So what are you claiming? That they made up this ending before GRRM told them the actual ending or GRRM told them and they got the number of years wrong? Three years ago was when Season 6 aired, so they had already produced a whole season beyond the source material. 

Just now, Krishtotter said:

I just don't like how they handled it, by killing the Night King off so early and making his entire arc feel like a waste of time. Same with Melisandre.

I'm just like, "that's it. All that. And that's it?"

I'm not sure this is something you can blame D&D for, I imagine that the general sequence of events is the same as GRRM's, he said as much three weeks ago when he said that there might be difference "with minor characters." Kiling the NK before  dealing with Cersei is hardly a minor plot.  

13 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

Just having the books would be something, but considering how poor AFFC and ADWD were, I wouldn't hold out much hope.

And unless D&D intentionally switched up GRRMs story to have Arya being the main instrument in defeating the Others (unlikely) then it's likely to go down a very similar way in the books.

I'm curious about this. We all know GRRM's "broad strokes" comment and recently he went even further and said "their ending in my ending" but in the aftershow D&D something like "we've known that Arya was going to be the one to do it for three years now." If it was GRRM's ending, shouldn't they have known since they sketched out the series before the show started? 

The episode was epic, there's not getting around it. There were some weird things with what Bran was doing the whole time, or why they didn't use the dragons more, and not enough people died. But still...epic!

4 hours ago, Holly Macaroni said:

I understand it's a joke.

The thing is, when you're the right hand man of your king, who's been taken hostage by the other queen, why make a joke about switching sides in front of said queen's main advisor?

It's really careless and weird.

It was a way of also complementing Dany and rewarding Missandei for her passionate defense of her. I don't think it was careless or out of place, it was flattery. 

12 minutes ago, Illiterati said:

 

Good to hear.  So Olenna is alive and well!!!

There was no ambiguity with Olenna's death. She gulps down poison. It's quite different from charging at a dragon and then being knocked out of the way (although I would argue there's no ambiguity here either, it's just unambiguous in the opposite way). If they wanted it to be a true cliffhanger leave it where Drogon looks over before he breathes fire. Leave it with Jaime raising the spear. But no, they purposely show you that Jaime does not get hit by fire, and does not get eaten by Drogon. He gets pushed out of the way at the very last second. That's clear. 

Whats further, if you can't tell from the obvious construction of the scene, then a basic understanding of how storytelling works should clue you in. Jaime's story isn't going to end there. There are far too many loose ends to tie up. 

The whole scene was stupid and shouldn't have been put in at all. Because it is obvious that Jaime and Bronn have some heavy plot armor in that scene and it's sloppy, and so unlike the first few seasons of the show when they have Martin's work as a guide. 

3 minutes ago, hallam said:

The point of having him drown was that is exactly what happened to Tyrion when he organized the defense of Kings Landing. Having him saved from dragon fire and then drown anyway is exactly the sort of thing D&D would do.

If Jamie survives and is captured, Danny might be a little too powerful. Kill him off and Cersei becomes the mad Queen - just like her father.

But Tyrion didn't die either. And, no this isn't the type of thing D&D have ever done. The show has rarely shied away from showing deaths, the one time they did with Stannis and people thought he was alive for two years. If Jaime were dead, we would have seen him die. We didn't, so he isn't. 

9 minutes ago, Lady Fishbiscuit said:

My thoughts...

I've missed Bron! Hope he's not about to die. Maybe he'll switch allegiances to Team Tyrion again.

 

Bronn is only in it for the gold. He's a horrible human being (although an interesting character), and if Tyrion can offer more money than the Lannisters he'll switch. If not, he won't. That being said, I am not happy that he survived this episode because that was a helluva lot plot armor he had on during that battle. 

22 hours ago, hallam said:

I am genuinely uncertain as to whether Jamie is alive or not. It seems most likely to me that he is dead. This was the shortest episode they have done. If Jamie was coming back, they would show him captured. Another thing that makes me think he is dead is Tyrion's line, 'you stupid bastard'. Charging a wounded dragon armed only with a spear is really stupid.

Having him survive two near death experiences and die in a third along with Bron trying to save him does seem like a suitable exit for him. It also means Cersei has gained the iron throne at the cost of everything she ever cared about. Her husband, children and entire family are dead except for Tyrion who is trying to kill her after she tried to kill him. 

Of course he is alive. What would even be the point of having him saved by Bronn like that if it wasn't to kill him. If they wanted him dead they could have had Drogon bite his head off or turn him into a pile of ashes. The fact that it is left ambiguous means that he is alive. There is no question about it. They wouldn't avoid a gruesome, cruel death like that for Jaime to have him slowly drown between episodes. 

3 minutes ago, StepStark said:

I'm not new at all, quite the opposite, but what show lovers usually perceive as "book purism" is most usually not that at all, but they prefer to see it that way in order to ignore the legitimate critique of their favorite show.

There are many legitimate critiques of the show. I hated last week's episode for many legitimate reasons that evaluate the show as a TV show and not as an adaptation of a book series that is not finished. But I also love the books and loved them well before there was a TV show to talk about compare them with. I just can call a spade a spade and see when people are being unfair to the TV show (in either direction) because of their biases. 

Just now, StepStark said:

Maybe you are right, but I don't know of any such case in this forum. I have never seen a poster here who dislikes the show just because he's not able to separate it from the books.

You must be new here. Having been here since before the first season, I've seen plenty of it. 

7 hours ago, StepStark said:

 

 

Oh but all those 10s that people regularly give are realistic and objective? What a hypocrisy, to say the least. Even last week there were people who rated episode 3 with 10. So how are those people going to rate episode 4? 20? 100? LOL!!! I don't get all this whining of show lovers, you always seem to feel like victims somehow, even though the show is clearly overrated as hell. I have hard time understanding 10s even for this episode, because the episode had very serious issues, even in the battle scene (but the battle was very exciting and well done in general), but okay, for the sake of argument let's say that this is an episode that deserves 10. But what about all the previous episodes that received all those 10s? Doesn't that actually prove that the show has been hugely overrated for quite some time? This episode that contains the best action scene in the show's history clearly proves that the show is overrated, because retrospectively all those previous "perfect scores" look ridiculous.

All of these ratings mean nothing because my 10 is not going to be your 10. A 10 for someone can mean perfect while for someone else it can mean between a 90% - 100%. Someone's score of a 1 in previous seasons would come from it not being a perfect representation of the book, or from someone who didn't like a particular scene or whatever.

These scores really don't mean anything, but I still bet I'm right that the person who gave this episode a 1 was a book fan who is still not able to separate the show from the books and has hated the show since season 2 but still watches it just to shit on it week after week and post about how much the show sucks. 

1 hour ago, hallam said:

 

Bron saves Jamie from the fire. It is not entirely clear Jamie survives but it will be resolved next episode.

I did get the feeling last week that Jamie might go out in episode 6 and so we would see the full Cersei unbound thing.

 

Jaime really should have died in this episode though. If he was going to charge Drogon like that he should have been killed. The show decided to save him at least twice in this sequence when he really should have died. I don't want Jaime to die, but I don't understand how the show that prided itself on breaking fantasy norms, not saving the hero at the very last second did it twice with Jaime within a few seconds and with Bronn as well. It was my biggest problem with this episode. 

1 minute ago, Bosfan said:

I posted this in another thread, but seriously there is no way that Olenna wouldn't use all that gold to hire GC or Faceless Men already as weapons against Cersei. She is the last Tyrell in the show there is no point in not going all in.

Yeah, really. She said all she had to live for was revenge, and being the last Tyrell there's no reason to keep stock piles of gold just laying around. She would have hired every sellsword and every faceless man if that really were the way she had felt. Sadly, I think they butchered Olenna's character last week with their Highgarden plot.