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Stubby

R+L=J v 66

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I was under the impression that Wylla was closer in age to Arya, so looked her up on the Wiki and she's supposed to be 15. That's approximately the same age as Jon, so I guess timeline is consistent. I'm liking this theory, at least a lot more than the Meera is Jon's twin theory. It would be interesting to see a more Targ looking offspring as well as a Stark looking offspring from the R&L pairing.

Edit: also twins separated to protect them from danger fits into the Star Wars aspect that Alfie Allen spoke about. Luke and Leia were hidden from the Empire, where Jon/WWylla might be hidden from Robert's Empire :)

That's what I thought as well in terms of circumstances, and not that the mysterious father in the case of aSoIaF was "evil," or had "fallen" morally.

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He did, in fact, I think that is how he died. He would not leave them on the battlefield.

But, I think it's the whole hair-dying thing. Unless she's a groupie for the Sex Pistols, why would she be dying her blonde hair green, (even though she leaves her brows blonde) as FF3 pointed out, for no apparent reason?

Ah, I know, but they had slipped my mind for a moment there. Not only did Daemon Blackfyre have twins (Aegon and Aemon), but also Daemon Targaryen had twins (Baela and Rhaena).

Totally my mistake!

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Ah, I know, but they had slipped my mind for a moment there. Not only did Daemon Blackfyre have twins (Aegon and Aemon), but also Daemon Targaryen had twins (Baela and Rhaena).

Totally my mistake!

No problem, when there is as much detail as GRRM includes, I think it's easy to forget a few things. :P

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As an aside, if they ever cast Rhaella in a flashback scene, I'm going for Lori Holden who played Andrea in "The Walking Dead."



She would be the right age, and resembles a younger Emila Clarke



http://photos.exposay.com/Laurie_Holden/laurie_holden_WiaQV.jpg





http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRk64U6xDYI/UYxLDdQYAOI/AAAAAAAABBs/UoCHVns4csw/s320/Daenerys.jpg


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Alia-- more twins from TPatQ

Rhaenyra's uncle/husband Prince Daemon had twin daughters, Baela and Rhaena, with his first wife Laena Velaryon (herself the daughter of Princess Rhaenys Targaryen)

Honestly, it's becoming an embarrassment of riches!

Eta- whoops, didn't see RT's post!

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Alia-- more twins from TPatQ

Rhaenyra's uncle/husband Prince Daemon had twin daughters, Baela and Rhaena, with his first wife Laena Velaryon (herself the daughter of Princess Rhaenys Targaryen)

Honestly, it's becoming an embarrassment of riches!

Eta- whoops, didn't see RT's post!

That's okay, because I didn't know the connections. :drool:

There are a veritable plethora of twin hatchlings. :)

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With the fact that

Rhaenyra gave birth to a deformed baby with a hole where the heart was supposed to be and a scaly tail

this made me think of how the intermingling of First Men wargness and Dragonlord blood is currently playing out.

With Jon's direwolf being white with red eyes, the fact that Varamyr notes Jon Snow is a very powerful warg, and his supposed parentage, I am beginning to suspect that the magical dragon blood is augmenting his warging abilities. It was the same with Bloodraven's dragon/warg genes, so I think it should be along similar lines for Jon.

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With the fact that

Rhaenyra gave birth to a deformed baby with a hole where the heart was supposed to be and a scaly tail

this made me think of how the intermingling of First Men wargness and Dragonlord blood is currently playing out.

With Jon's direwolf being white with red eyes, the fact that Varamyr notes Jon Snow is a very powerful warg, and his supposed parentage, I am beginning to suspect that the magical dragon blood is augmenting his warging abilities. It was the same with Bloodraven's dragon/warg genes, so I think it should be along similar lines for Jon.

Totally agree with this.

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And for all those reasons you just outlined, I jumped aboard that crazy train. :drool:

I know there are many who are not fans of the "twins" thing because maybe "it's just too Lucas," but, from the standpoint of the book, GRRM has made twins a part of the "Targaryen factor," so it's not to be ruled out.

Also, from a symbolic standpoint, twins have always had a metaphysical significance referenced often in literature, which are both seen as a blessing, or a curse, but especially as two halves of a whole.

Twins in Mythology:

- Romulus and Remus

- Apollos and Artemis

- Castor and Pollux

- Arsu and Azizos

- Freyr and Freyja

- Yama and Yami

- Lava and Kusha

- Ahriman and Ahura Mazda

Absolutely. In the specific case of Romulus and Remus there's also the she-wolf element to take into account and the mention of a... wall. Really, no need to bother George Lucas. Every story has already been told.

Back to Jon&Wylla, I consider the twins hypothesis highly improbable but not 100% discardable. Mythological echoes and textual handholds are there. Just in case ;)

Didn't Daemon Blackfyre have twin sons?

Alia-- I am very fond of this "crackpot" of yours :D

Targaryen&co twins count:

- Daemon Targaryen and Laena Velaryon's twins: Baela and Rhaena

- Aegon II and Helaena's twins: Jaehaerys and Jaehaera

- Rhaegel's twin sons

- Daemon Blackfyre's twins: Aegon and Aemon

- Valarr's stillborn sons?

Any other?

Speaking of feisty ladies, this one gives me strong asoiaf vibes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ASUCSOu58A

Viva Caterina Sforza!

Same scene from The Borgias, with amazing Gina McKee:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4htzAFtkq0U

A Renaissance legend: "If I were to write the story of my life, I would shock the world." :bowdown:

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That's okay, :cheers: .

I suppose I'm drawn to the mysterious aspect of twins, and maybe the fact it would be nice to see that Rhaegar does live on in someone as much as Lyanna does.

I always made the assumption that had Aegon lived, while he might have resembled his father, he would have taken after his mother, which given her supposedly sweet nature, coupled with Rhaegars nature, seems to be a clue our current faegon doesn't seem to take after either.

Haven't we seen a bit to little of him to say he takes after neither one of his parents? Especially given that we don't know Elia or Rhaegar either? :p We only know what others are saying about them, but there could be things about both Elia and Rhaegar that those people don't know about.

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Wow, guys :bowdown: Lurking about here has completely convinced me of R+L=J, even though I'm not sure exactly how it can all fit together yet... Just, wow, you've done such an amazing job analyzing these books! :drool:


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Call me crazy, but I see the plethora of Targaryen twins (and I'd say it qualifies as a lot, at least four confirmed sets and possibly/probably more we don't know about) as a possible clue about Jaime and Cersei, not Jon and Wylla/Meera/whoever.


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Call me crazy, but I see the plethora of Targaryen twins (and I'd say it qualifies as a lot, at least four confirmed sets and possibly/probably more we don't know about) as a possible clue about Jaime and Cersei, not Jon and Wylla/Meera/whoever.

Yeah that's interesting, because I don't think we've heard one single reference to

Lannister twins

Revisiting Jaime's dream, part of me has always wondered if that wasn't intended to reinforce that Joanna was golden haired and green eyed.

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Call me crazy, but I see the plethora of Targaryen twins (and I'd say it qualifies as a lot, at least four confirmed sets and possibly/probably more we don't know about) as a possible clue about Jaime and Cersei, not Jon and Wylla/Meera/whoever.

That would be sweet. I wonder how they'd react if they ever find out that they are Targaryen bastards, seeded by the Mad King.

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I've thought of the whole Aerys/Joanna thing too, but Aerys was complaining about the fact that it was too bad that the lords right to the bride had been done away with and while he was inappropriate with Joanna, it doesn't sound as if he got that far.

And there is Tyrion with the mismatched eyes like Sheira Seastar.

Given that Joanna caught Jaime and Cersei at home, it sounds as if she isn't at Court with Tywin either.

I suppose if there are going to be hidden Targs. I'd rather see it confined within the parallel characters, the Starks, or it becomes who isn't a Targaryen.

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I've thought of the whole Aerys/Joanna thing too, but Aerys was complaining about the fact that it was too bad that the lords right to the bride had been done away with and while he was inappropriate with Joanna, it doesn't sound as if he got that far.

And there is Tyrion with the mismatched eyes like Sheira Seastar.

Given that Joanna caught Jaime and Cersei at home, it sounds as if she isn't at Court with Tywin either.

I suppose if there are going to be hidden Targs. I'd rather see it confined within the parallel characters, the Starks, or becomes who isn't a Targaryen.

I think twins run more strongly in families than mismatched eyes do. Are mismatched eyes even genetically linked within families? I have no idea.

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I think twins run more strongly in families than mismatched eyes do. Are mismatched eyes even genetically linked within families? I have no idea.

Yes it usually runs on the female side more strongly.

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Yes it usually runs on the female side more strongly.

Yeah, that's how I understand it too. Which is iffier with the twins because of Joanna, obviously (unless she has a Targ ancestor we don't yet know about). But GRRM might not make that distinction.

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Yeah, that's how I understand it too. Which is iffier with the twins because of Joanna, obviously (unless she has a Targ ancestor we don't yet know about). But GRRM might not make that distinction.

I have this crackpot that Daeron the Drunkard's feeble-witted daughter married into House Lannister, as the "surprising Lannister ancestor" that Ran mentioned. I was guessing Tytos's mother or grandmother, but maidenandwarrior came to the similar conclusion but with a twist: that she was Joanna's mother.

I can't recall all of the details now, but it works out nicely and we all win: the Targy connections the Lannisters have are explained without making Tywin's children bastards of the Mad King.

A couple of the connections off the top of my head: Tyrion is a drunken whore monger like Daeron, and it would explain Aerys's attraction to Joanna – they were related, but very distantly by Targaryen standards. Still, the attraction could serve as a thematic clue.

Anyway, just throwing that out there.

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