Too Many POVs

[Nictarion]

Does anyone think GRRM might be getting an itchy trigger finger for a major POV? It's been awhile sense he's dusted someone big and beloved.... just sayin...He killed Neddly in book 1, Catelyn in book 3 isn't he maybe overdue for a shocker?

I think he loves his characters so much it will be hard to let them go until the end. Especially the original POV's, like Dany, Tyrion, Arya, Bran, Sansa.

[direwienerdog]

If you scroll down to the bottom of the POV page and click to sort by total chapters you get a good sense of who his mains are, but we all also know that he is not above killing a main *cough Ned cough Cat*. But if he starts killing off mains and leaving us with characters that have just been introduced we'll be losing all of the time and emotion that we have invested in those characters. I mean I have said that nothing would make me stop reading these but if we end up with Arianne, Theon, Victarion, Brienne, Jaime, and Cersei, while Dany, Jon, Tyrion, Arya and Bran are killed off, then I might actually stop reading. I don't really want to see all of them go but if he is going to cut some I would rather it be the ones that we haven't spent so much time with.\

That's what Jon was for.

Yes but most don't think he's dead, dead or even Cat dead.

[mindchap]

Yes but most don't think he's dead, dead or even Cat dead.

I know, but that's mainly because of his own "oh you think he's dead" comment. Sometimes I think he just loves toying with us way too much. :)

[Florina Laufeyson]

I pretty much agree here. I have mixed feelings about losing Theon though, death would be a mercy for him, but he's such a good character I don't want him to die.

Theon might stick around. Its still up in the air right now. I dont think we are going to lose him or Asha without something really major going down first. These are the only two Ironborn POVs i see still standing in and after tWoW. If we lose Theon, something really cool is gonna happen. Victarion is likely to be fall into the black hole of Plot and Aeron...lol.

Pretty sure our core cast is sticking around till the very end.

(Jon, Dany, Arya, Sansa, Bran, Tyrion, and hopefully Davos) Unless a couple get iced due to Endgame. I think the guys who are gonna die during Endgame are Cersei, Jaime, Brienne, probably Davos (sad), Theon, Arianne, etc. Jaime and Cersei are prime for shocking kill off. They've been a big deal in the story forever but werent POVs until ASoS. GRRM already pulled the "Davos is toast" card like, twice, so he might be safe.

It boils down to you never know. But i really think the Stark kids, Dany, and Tyrion wont bite it too soon.

[Victarion Chainbreaker]

Barristan is not long for this world. There are 4 POVs in Slavers' Bay (counting Dany,) and neither she nor Tyrion are in danger of dying. Everyone wants Hizdahr's head (Victarion, Daario, and Jorah for romantic reasons, but also Belwas and Shavepate), and Barristan is the guy standing in the way. My money's on Jorah, he's got revenge on his mind.

Once the DOD 2.0 wraps up there will be no Aegon so no need for JonCon or Arienne. Trystane should inherit Dorne anyway.

For his own sake, I hope Theon dies bravely and soon. His life is all pain.

[intheswamp]

GRRM doesn't seem to want anything to happen off page. The man needs a better editor.

GRRM keeps saying he needs less POVs, but he doesn't seem to be doing anything about it. In fact, he added a Quentyn POV in Dance, when Quentyn's chapters could have been summed up in Dany's and Barristan's chapters. (Although, a POV for Barristan may not have been necessary either, but I like The Bold, so I'm more forgiving there.) At least this would have given Dany something to deal with other than the standard: I want Daario, I'm a little girl who knows nothing but pretends I do, I'm the mother of dragons who ignores her kids, and I don't want to learn about the continent I'm planning to conquer.

I also don't see the need for a Victarion POV. Do we require another travelogue from Westeros to Essos? Tyrion's chapters were boring enough (endless food descriptions, self-loathing, asking where whores go, and the repeated plotline of being captured and released (what is he, a Pokemon?)), yet Vic's chapters are somehow even worse. All he is doing is sailing a ship the entire time.

Do we need 3 POV's for the Battle of Meereen? That isn't even counting Dany who will inevitably return. Maybe he wants Vic and Barristan around to try and shock us when he kills them off (it won't be shocking at all), since there is no chance that Tyrion or Dany will die anytime soon.

You cut Quentyn, Vic, and some of the fat from Dany's and Tyrion's chapters; finish the plotlines at Meereen, the random Jaime cliffhanger, and The Wall instead (GRRM did say in an interview that he wanted to show what happened there, but didn't have room, this would have saved us from yet another annoying death cliffhanger); and Dance would have been a pretty damn good book.

[Florina Laufeyson]

Vic does need to show us what happens with Viserion and Rhaegal cuz Barristan will be far too preoccupied to provide insight and Tyrion is also a part of that battle mess. Once he serves his purpose, Vic is outta here.

Once the DOD 2.0 wraps up there will be no Aegon so no need for JonCon or Arienne.

JonCon will be outta here before Dance of the Dragons Part Deux happens anyway. Hes got greyscale.

[Sansa_Stark]

Barristan is not long for this world. There are 4 POVs in Slavers' Bay (counting Dany,) and neither she nor Tyrion are in danger of dying. Everyone wants Hizdahr's head (Victarion, Daario, and Jorah for romantic reasons, but also Belwas and Shavepate), and Barristan is the guy standing in the way. My money's on Jorah, he's got revenge on his mind.

Once the DOD 2.0 wraps up there will be no Aegon so no need for JonCon or Arienne. Trystane should inherit Dorne anyway.

For his own sake, I hope Theon dies bravely and soon. His life is all pain.

god i hate tyrions plot armor

[mindchap]

Vic does need to show us what happens with Viserion and Rhaegal cuz Barristan will be far too preoccupied to provide insight and Tyrion is also a part of that battle mess.

Selmy WoW Spoiler:

Selmy's comments make me think that the dragons have already come to fight, now we just need to know if it's from the horn and if so how much control do they have over them. He seems confident that they will be attacking their enemies though. :)

[Alys Fiddlewielder]

I think Victarion will probably cark it. Other possibilities for me are Jaime, Cersei, Barristan and Melisandre. Tyrion is constantly in danger, but his death would be pointless. Jon Connington's death is inevitable, so ya.

The only reasons I'm not listing Theon are because

a) it would be weird to give him only one POV in TWOW, that chapter being the one already released

b ) he finally escaped Ramsay and got his name back, why cut him down now?

c) I simply refuse to accept that he's one of the more likely ones to kick the bucket. : p

Come to think of it, the fact that I'm so hesitant to start naming likely deaths shows that GRRM has succeeded in making people care about the characters.

[Ours if the Fury]

I think Brienne, Aeron, Areo, Victarion and Selmy and theon will stop being POV's wether they die or not... i do not know

[The Great and Mighty Poo]

No such thing as too many.

[jentario]

:agree:

Edit: The only POV I could see not returning is Melisandre, as she only had one chapter.

I think Melisandre getting a POV was set up for more chapters that she will get while Jon is unconscious/dead at the beginning of ADWD. So I think she'll get 2-4 chapters.

Characters I think will stop being POVs (at least until battle scenes, where GRRM likes taking multiple POVs):

-JonCon when Arianne arrives

-Asha as long as she's with Theon

-Brienne as long as she's with Jamie

-Victarion and Barristan, after the battle and when Dany returns (if they stay together)

-Jon and Mel- except for maybe one "Ghost" chapter, I think Jon and Mel will never be simultaenously active POVs. As long as Jon is out, Mel is in and when Jon returns Mel is out.

That means we may have 20 POVs, but only 14 will be active at any given time, and a number of these 14 are minor POVs anyway (Aeron and Areo, I doubt they'll get more than three chapters) which trims is down to a semi-manageable 12 full time POVs.

[protar]

I'd like to see Areo removed, but as he's chasing after Darkstar that seems not to be the case. I think Asha and Brienne will be removed as they've converged back with Jaime and Theon. Victarion and/or Barristan will likely die in the Battle of Fire. In which case that trims things down a bit. I also think that we won't see very much of Bran. I'm even going to bet just one final chapter. Imo the full list of POVs will be:

• Tyrion
  
• Daenerys
  
• Victarion
  
• Barristan
  
• Arya
  
• Jon/Ghost
  
• Melisandre
  
• Bran
  
• Theon
  
• Davos
  
• Jaime
  
• Sansa
  
• Sam
  
• Aeron
  
• Cersei
  
• Arianne
  
• Areo
  

Plus the prologue and maybe the epilogue. That really needs trimming.

[Nictarion]

and Dance would have been a pretty damn good book.

It was a damn good book.

[mindchap]

It was a damn good book.

:agree: Bloodraven has that effect on books. And Dragons too. :cool4:

[random girl from westeros]

:agree:

Edit: The only POV I could see not returning is Melisandre, as she only had one chapter.

[aceluby]

No such thing as too many.

:agree: My prediction is that he strives to get down to 9 and what we get are 12-13 named POVs and a few titled 'temp' POV's by the time we get to ADoS.

[aceluby]

It was a damn good book.

I think it's my favorite after my re-read. So many things happen and there are so many well written chapters.

[SugarCrisp]

I was going to start a topic with the same title. It seems like GRRM wants to show EVERYTHING and the books are a lesser quality because of that.

I've grown attached to the characters from the earlier books. He keeps killing them off (which I suppose isn't too bad and is realistic when a world is in war) and introducing new characters. It's too late in the series for me to develop a bond with the new guys. While reading AFfC, I would skip the PoVs that I didn't enjoy (my brother admitted that he wanted to do the same).

I'm at the point where I'm so tired of Dany's story arc, I want her to die. I think it would have been much more interesting to read about how Westeros reacts to her dragons, but with only two novels remaining in the series I don't think it will get the time it deserves.

I was swearing like a sailor when Tyrion left Westeros. I want everyone to return to Westeros, not leave.

While I appreciate GRRM recognizing that a world/planet consists of more than one continent, Westeros is the focal point of the series and way too much of the novel has been spent on Essos.

I think the whole Ironborn story arc could have been left out, and the books would have been better because of it.