Hobbit: Desolation of Smaug spoiler thread

[Theda Baratheon]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying jace except i loved bard and thought Luke Evans was great

[Ramsay B.]

When I say CGI, I'm mostly talking about the molten gold, and the elvish battle animations. I did not like the river scene, though, because it's disgusting how poorly they cut the shots from 'raging rapids' to 'in the barrel'. Seriously, they didn't even use the same filter. The rapids shots look like something from a documentary, or a reality show. It's clean, unfiltered, and it looks bad in editing.

I liked Smaug, and I loved hearing him talk, but he was made impotent with the 30 minutes of being unable to kill a single dwarf.

Yup, the barrel shots did look like a reality show. How could they not edit those shots out?

It was pretty ridiculous that Smaug couldn't kill them. He had so many chances to just blast them with fire but that type of shit is, unfortunately, expected in a movie like this. I did love Smaug's reaction when he saw that gold statue, he was in complete and utter awe, of it.

[Theda Baratheon]

Also very upset over beorn, one of my favorites having about 3 minutes screen time fuck that and omg Jackson literally copied and pasted the elf chick repeatedly saying some cool elf spell words from lotr except i actually really like arwen - don't like tauriel

[The Marquis de Leech]

Yes, Smaug refraining from just blasting everything in sight was a bit odd. In the book Bilbo (and only Bilbo) gets away with it because he's wearing the Ring, and because Smaug is genuinely curious about an altogether unknown smell. Once Smaug's had enough, he sends fire in Bilbo's general direction, and bashes up the mountainside

In the movie, Bilbo spends most of his time not wearing the Ring, and Smaug figures out Thorin's involved very quickly. You'd have thought he'd have tired of playing games very quickly.

[Crazydog7]

Now everyone suddenly has a problem with the CGI? Seriously?

Ok more thoughts later.

[Jace, Extat]

Theda, I don't think I ever mentioned it in my rant, but I also liked 'Unexpected Journey'. I thought it was a lot of fun and had character, something this one lacked. I also agree about Tauriel, she made me angry.

Mr. Ramsay Blow, I agree with the Smaug-Statue comment. That was a good shot, and really the only part of Dwarves vs Smaug I liked. You can see how entranced he is by such an impressive manifestation of his greed, and I though him being buried in gold was actually a nice touch (devoured by said greed). Him flying and shedding his wealth was a brilliant visual spectacle as well. The molten gold still looked horrible, though.

[Theda Baratheon]

Ya, was initially very impressed with smaug then bored.

I don't think I've ever felt like so much of a book snob before lol.

Also because i only just watched it its still all jumbled in my brain, i shall make some better points tomorrow after I've slept

These films come no where near close to the lotr trilogy which i happen to adore despite its flaws, they are wonderful, epic beautiful films with the right amount of tragedy and nice comic moments and wonderful design and score and heart

This film felt so flat i hardly felt anything

[The Marquis de Leech]

The portrayal of the hoard was pretty tacky anyway. All the gold mined in the history of the world would fill two Olympic-sized swimming pools: if there were that much gold, there wouldn't be any value to it. And gold doesn't behave like that - it's heavy. Smaug shouldn't be able to swim in it Scrooge McDuck style.

Not to mention boating down molten gold in a wheelbarrow. It's 1600 degrees plus. Thorin and his wheelbarrow should have been burning.

[Winterz]

Alright, I'm trying to avoid reading through this thread but there's just something that has been bugging me.

Can someone please tell me if the battle of the five armies is featured in the film? (and just that.)

Every brief mention of the movie's plot leads me to believe that it will only happen in the third movie, yet the battle of the five armies is the perfect material for an ending.

[Jace, Extat]

-Mr. Winterz, the Battle of the Five Armies is not featured.-

I thought about the gold's wealth as well, when I saw it. I leaned over to my boyfriend and said "you think the economy is bad now..." seriously, the fish that got dumped on the ground in Laketown would have more value than all that gold... I am curious about the two swimming pools, though. That just doesn't seem right, there can't be that little gold in the world...?

Again I find myself agreeing with Theda about initially being impressed with Smaug before becoming bored. When he passed above the dwarves when they were running across the bridge my reaction was 'oh, he's still around... ho hum...'

[The Marquis de Leech]

The Battle of Five Armies will take place in the third film.

[The Marquis de Leech]

I am curious about the two swimming pools, though. That just doesn't seem right, there can't be that little gold?

It's 161,000 tonnes worth: http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2009/01/gold/larmer-text/3

Note though that almost all the gold ever mined is still with us: the stuff lasts forever.

[Theda Baratheon]

AGREE ON GOLD HOARD. Way too much treasure, this dragon wasn't guarding it he was swimming in it.

[Jace, Extat]

I always pictured it in the book as a big pile that Smaug was lying on top of. Like, maybe the size of a bus. And all in one reasonably-sized room.

[GoodGuyA]

The padding in this movie is beyond blatant and insulting. PJ seems more caught up in his invented bits than the story he was trying to represent.

Right off the bat what I absolutely hated and continues for like a straight hour is the fact that the movie tries to remain tense and frenetic when there is literally no reason to be. Why the hell do orcs need to be in every fucking scene? Could we not have something like Lothlorien in which there is a relaxing break in tension, though still strangely fearing for our heroes, followed by the returning threat? There is no build-up in this movie at all. No action scene has any punch because the audience is all ready on edge. I get that they have to get to the mountain quickly, but it was the director's decision to make that gap so narrow. I expected a pace similar to LotR, and instead I got something on speed.

The worst offense I think the movie had to bear was Kili being struck by a Morgul arrow. Everything about this plot is so wrong. A repeat of Fellowship's conflict, Tauriel making the aura of Arwen into "generic admiration", the "it's a weed" line... WHY????, the complete lack of impact of empathy for the character, and the entire orc battle scene to heighten the tension for a character we know the desires of for precisely one scene.

There were a couple nice elements here that could have been so much better utilized. The river gate scene was very interesting with the use of space, and seemed to be the most realistic (and nearest to LotR) fight scene in the whole duology thus far. Of course from there it went to Loony Toons land. Honestly, Legolas killing a Mumakil is nowhere near as egregious as this shit.

The more powerful scenes in the book were belittled in the face of these multiple twisting subplots which began collapsing in on itself. Here is one of the biggest problems with making orcs have very discernible personality: They turn into steretype villains regardless. Why does Azog bother for a second not to kill Gandalf in the face with a mace? Why does Sauron not kill Gandalf when he has him in the cage? The Uruk-hai sure as fuck didn't just stand around to do cool poses, even though the camera captured some cool moments. Lurtz and the Helm's Deep Uruk-hai were intimidating but also seemed to have a sense of culture beyond ripping and tearing things.

To say some good things, Martin Freeman is excellent as always. If he had more freedom to express in these movies, we could have gotten a perfect Bilbo who's both realistic and accurate. So much of the movie is focused on moving though that we don't get enough time with him, but rather his heroics. The "Sting" scene, while lacking tension (as mentioned), was still rather enjoyable and felt like one of the better executed pieces of the movie. Especially loved Bilbo's sit down with the Ring afterwards. A very powerful character moment.

All right, enough of that, back to bitching. Laketown was so needlessly removed from the original intent. It feels like they said "Fantasy political intrigue is really 'in' right now, so let's make the slimiest shithole in the universe!". The character of Laketown should have been through its design (which is remarkable and unique) and its people. Instead they jump through so many hoops to achieve the same result they could have just by playing it straight. The Master did not need to be more of an asshole. Dying of gold greed is all ready a good enough foil to Thorin.

Speaking of that, the Arkenstone plot change was so ridiculous. In the book, Bilbo doesn't understand the Arkenstone's worth, so he uses it as a barter. However, with the knowledge he has now, regardless of Smaug's words of "temptation" and all that crap, Bilbo is now a villain because the dwarf tribes will be in shambles without it. The element of greed is all ready there, and the first prologue did more than enough to show how they could be tempted. No need to talk about it endlessly.

Smaug was all right,though the constant shots inside his throat were absolutely cartoony and unneeded. I don't see majesty and fear in a creature like that, I just see the beastliness, like a Warg. The whole extended scene just made no sense, and especially from the perspective of a dwarf trying to make something usable. How convenient that it was gold in pots, not iron. How lucky that they happened to have been working on a mold of Thrain at the time of their demise. How great it was to have several "pulleys" where one could never possibly have need for them. We need a zipline scene in our action sequence! Or, like, 12. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of Smaug's destruction being seen firsthand, but this was not the place for it. The massiveness of it was stumped by the stupidity and illogical nature of the dwarves surviving through it.

This one pissed me off way more than the first one, and I really could go about dissecting things which just shoot the tone and focus in the face. It won't change anything though. The wonderful opportunity to create a true companion to LotR has passed, and while it's not nearly the level of Star Wars prequels kind of impossibly stupid at every turn, its still pretty stupid and lacks any bit of majesty which was undoubtedly there. PJ got too caught up in himself and created something which insults the audiences who watch it.

[The Marquis de Leech]

Here's Tolkien's own drawing of the hoard and Smaug:

http://www.hobbit.ca/Smaug-Tolkien2.jpg

Even Tolkien exaggerates, but nothing on the scale of the movie.

[Theda Baratheon]

I always pictured it in the book as a big pile that Smaug was lying on top of. Like, maybe the size of a bus. And all in one reasonably-sized room.

me too, i have a lovely book with great diagrams and smaug has an awesome picture of him just curled on this gold pile

[Theda Baratheon]

Here's Tolkien's own drawing of the hoard and Smaug:

http://www.hobbit.ca/Smaug-Tolkien2.jpg

Even Tolkien exaggerates, but nothing on the scale of the movie.

Yes!! This is the picture i loved as a child

[GoodGuyA]

When I say CGI, I'm mostly talking about the molten gold, and the elvish battle animations. I did not like the river scene, though, because it's disgusting how poorly they cut the shots from 'raging rapids' to 'in the barrel'. Seriously, they didn't even use the same filter. The rapids shots look like something from a documentary, or a reality show. It's clean, unfiltered, and it looks bad in editing.

Wow! I remember noticing that too! I thought it was just my eyes playing games with me, but there was something very uncanny about it. It got better after a while though.

[Er Rn]

The raging rapids barrel scene made me dizzy, almost like one of those motion master movie rides.

I didn't care for this movie. It was action packed, that's for sure, but I felt like there was very little substance. Beorn barely gets any screen time. I would bet that non-book readers barely noticed him and probably won't remember him. The Tauriel and Kili romance was total cheese. Too much Legolas. Not enough Bilbo. The confrontation between the dwarves and Smaug went on entirely too long until it became just silly.

On the plus side, the scenery was beautiful. Martin Freeman is great as Bilbo. Smaug looked and sounded good (although yes, the endless caverns filled to the brim with gold was silly).

Anyway, I was very disappointed :thumbsdown: