Tyrion Targaryen?

[Victarion Chainbreaker]

Since Tyrion was deformed and Joanna died giving birth to him if he had been 'allowed" to die too there would have been no questions asked. It would be totally in character for Tywin to make this happen if he suspected/was aware that Aerys was Tyrion's real father. And if Tyrion wasn't Tywin's son, would it have been kinslaying?

Joanna was his first cousin, so yes it still would have been kinslaying.

[shk12344]

People, please wake up and smell the coffee!!! There is only one secret Targaryean and his name is Jon Snow. Here's the reason:

1) Having other secret Targ cheapens the impact and the importance of the moment when Jon's true parentage is revealed to Jon, to Westoros society and to readers (at least to readers who haven't been paying attention or are in deep denial)

2)Of all the innuenandos and rumors about various individuals having secret Targ root, Jon Snow is completely left out of this particular discussion in the book even though no one really knows who his real mother is (except Howland Reed who has yet to appear in the series) It seems its clear to be that all those rumors are just red herring, kind like slight of hand, to distract readers from focusing on Jon Snow.

[Ser Creighton]

I used to hate the Tyrion Targ theory, but totally tend to love it these days. It really is an interesting theory with a nice plot twist, though, I can't give any logistics on it, that does not mean it's not possible or even probable.

[naik2902]

Where was Joanna in 273 AL. at CR or in KL ?? it could be possible only if she was in Red keep in KL for targaryen sperms.

[Ser Creighton]

Well the thing is she doesn't have to be at just one place, as people can travel, as Martin pointed out about Ashara and others. Also who knows if they have some old Targ blood mixed in or if it was someone else with Targ blood who could of slept with Joe. It is heavily hinted at that Tywin may have been doing a bit of whoring. Your wife finds out and things may not go so well, also in the case of Aerys at some point he was rather charming and competent. The whole thing is really a hot mess, these books have a lot of very dysfunctional families and people. I have no idea how they got this far.

[Sages]

The only reason why I would want this to be true, would be because it would remove the taint of kinslayer from Tyrion. That being said I wouldn't be surprised. As other have already cited some possible tetual hints, with Aery's comment, tyrion's mismatch eyes, Tywin saying that Tyrion is no his son etc.

[Tynned Lannistark]

No way any of Tywin's kid are not his.

And as SHK12344 said - there is only one (possile) secret Targ and his name is Jon Snow. Whether Rhaegar married Lyanna is debatable so even that is not sure.

Tyrion being a Targ is bad story telling (which GRRM doesn't usually do) , and has no proofs.

Its out of character for all characters involved. Joanna would not cheat on Tywin, definitly not with Aerys , Aerys does not have the guts to rape a Lord's wife, and Tywin's more than anyone.

If this would happen, a guy like Tywin would never forgive it. There is no chance in the world he would have stayed out of RR , actually its more likely he would initiate a revolt much sooner. Not to mention he would not continue to act as hand of the king

Sorry it just doesn't make sense.

[Nic.]

Well always thought there was a possibility considering the three headed dragon being born out of sacrifice in child birth. However, there are plenty of references throughout the books that Tyrion out of the Lannister children is the most like his father.

[Ser Creighton]

Bloodraven is a secret Targ. In that nobody knows he is alive in the books save Brans troop, and even then nobody knows who or what he is. And until Dance he was a secret Targ to the readers as well. So yes we have had a secret Targ pop out of the woodwork so to speak already, may be even more of them. Even Aegon is a Blackfyre, he still is a Targ, he would have Targ blood as the Blackfyre's are just a cadet branch of house Targaryen.

[Ser Creighton]

And Jon is the most like Ned which is also mentioned in the books. Something else the two have in common and the Author made sure to place those two together and make a connection between them very early in the series, book 1.

[Tynned Lannistark]

Bloodraven is a secret Targ. In that nobody knows he is alive in the books save Brans troop, and even then nobody knows who or what he is. And until Dance he was a secret Targ to the readers as well. So yes we have had a secret Targ pop out of the woodwork so to speak already, may be even more of them. Even Aegon is a Blackfyre, he still is a Targ, he would have Targ blood as the Blackfyre's are just a cadet branch of house Targaryen.

Not a secret Targ, but secretly a live, and I don't think the fact that he is Bloodraven is very meaningful to the story or would ever be officially revealed.

Its one of those things that the reader may (or may not) notice to get a more complete sense of the story, but are not a key plot line.

Tyrion being Targ is a different issue and I sincerly hope we are not going to be flooded with secret Targs popping all over the place, like we are with the undead.

That to me would be very disappointing. I have higher expectations of GRRM :)

[Ser Creighton]

Actually he is a secret Targ, nobody knows who he is in the books. We only know who he is because of D&E. Though I don't think "secret" Targ is the right word.

Blood raven is secretly a living Targ. Right?

Jon is most likely a hidden Targ, as that is what occurred, Jon's parentage was hidden from him and Ned hid Jon under the guise of his own child.

Tyrion would be an unknown Targ as nobody knows he is a Targ, not even Tywin.

Dany is the exiled Targ.

Aegon the false Targ.

You may not want secret Targs or fake Targs or hidden Targs or any of the like. But you already have a Hidden Targ (Jon), and exiled Targ (Dany), a secretly alive Targ (Bloodraven), a hidden exiled Targ who is probably a fake Targ (Aegon), a self imposed exiled Targ who was a secret Targ till it was revealed he was a Targ (Aemon). We have actually been exposed to lots of Targs in the books who are or were alive, hidden, secret, exiled or otherwise. Oh and the stupid yet awesome Targ (Vis the wiz) Of course you also have the Vary's the Targ supporters.

You know until I thought about it awhile back, I really didn't realize how many Targs have been alive in the books. Or supposed Targs I should say. We have had 3 surpise Targs so far, Aemon, Bloodraven and Aegon. Or supposed Targs.

When you say undead, do meant characters who keep coming back to life like Cat, or like just the general undead army of Wights and the Others. Cause the books actually open with the Others and a guy who becomes undead, so you kind of have to see that one coming.

[Tynned Lannistark]

I meant undead like Cat and Gregor.

Not the Zombies of the Others. Don't mind them, they are just like the Dragons to me - an element of magic.

Its the characters coming back to life that bother me.

I also like you didn't notice how many Targs were actually alive.

But Viserys and Dany were known to be alive all the time.

Jon is the one hidden or secret Targ.

Aemon is a surprise Targ, but his being a Targ is not relevant for the current situation ins Westeros.

3 eyed crow being BR is more of a nice hidden thing for the readers of D&E than a real plot line. I don't think the fact he used to be BR is will be relevant for the future. Not sure if it will even be revealed.

I don't like Aegon for that reason exactly. This is an annoying twist in the plot, which is exactly why people think he is fake.

Adding Tyrion will just be too much.

[Wouter]

tPatQ kind of left it ambiguous to whether that's true or not

However, tPatQ does make it clear that:

the Targaryens either are convinced that Valyrian blood is needed to ride dragons (accounting for Velaryons, too, and any other Valyrian descendants) or that they are trying hard to make it seem that way for propaganda purposes. Either way, I think Dany is likely to believe this is a requirement. If Tyrion does ride a dragon, questions are likely to be asked about how this is possible and even if he isn't actually a bastard of Aerys, Dany may become convinced he is. Especially if there were/are rumours, which Barristan would know about.

[Ser Creighton]

I did notice how many Targs were alive, but it wasn't a topic of the post so I am not sure why I would need to state the obvious. It was about hidden or secret Targs. Neither Dany nor Vis were hidden, in exile yes, but not really hidden. Brown Benn Plum supposedly has Targ blood as well along with house Baratheon, Arryn and Martell among others. Hightower as well too I believe, have to go back and look at the latest tree. But I don't feel the need to really get into that. Just pointing out that secret Targs are secret Targs and until it's revealed you don't know how it will impact the story or reader.

Yes the Aegon thing is pretty bad but that story is not completed either. Who knows Martin may have something great up his sleeve. 3 Dragons, 3 riders, and something tells me they will all be Targs. Tyrion going from Jon to Dany like this, and the common parallels the three stories share is a bit much to ignore. Most people may hate the idea, but that doesn't mean Martin hates the idea. I don't know, I am just willing to be a little more open to the possibility as I find the theory itself has gotten stronger over time not weaker. I can't really fully judge the idea until I see how it is actually executed. But know it doesn't bother me, it used to, but not these days, I actually have grown to like it.

[mb2518]

Tyrion isn't a Targaryen but may be a dragon rider. He has too much of the Lannister cleverness and wit. I think he will have a big influence on the second dance with dragons. I also thought Martin said that the riders didn't necessarily have to be Targaryen in the past? As for the Targaryens, they pretty much did whatever they wanted, until Aerys started burning and strangling people in the throne room. The evidence is stronger that Jaime and Cersei may not really be Tywin's, but it's all speculation right now.

[Mychel_Redfort]

And Jon is the most like Ned which is also mentioned in the books. Something else the two have in common and the Author made sure to place those two together and make a connection between them very early in the series, book 1.

And what is the very first thing they talk about when they meet, the first dialog for Tyrion in the book : bastards. It's fitting for Jon, but it could subtly apply for Tyrion too !

[The Lordly Oak]

After reading tPatQ, it seems far more likely to me that Jaime and Cersei would be Targaryens than Tyrion.

As the quote above mentions, Cersei exhibits the paranoia displayed by Aerys II. It's also eerily similar to

Rhaenyra once she sits on the Iron Throne and totally shuts King's Landing down

.

Additionally, Jaime's incredibly aggressive nature is in line with Viserys II as well as

King Aegon II and Prince Aemond

. This is in pretty stark contrast with Tywin, who rarely makes a move that isn't calculated from all angles first.

On the contrary, Tyrion isn't all that quick to anger (considering that he's mocked and ridiculed for his size constantly) and uses his brain much more than his siblings do. Genna Lannister gave us this quote as well, depending on how far you want to look into it:

"Jaime, sweetling, I have known you since you were a babe at Joanna's breast. You smile like Gerion and fight like Tyg and there's some of Kevan in you, else you would not wear that cloak...but Tyrion is Tywin's son, not you. I said so once to your father's face, and he would not speak to me for half a year."

The notion that Jaime and Cersei are the spawn of Aerys II makes much more sense than it does for Tyrion. After all, it is said that the king took some liberties with the bedding at Tywin and Joanna's wedding and the two certainly share the Targaryens' sexual attraction for siblings. Given that, why is there is so much more discussion of Tyrion in that regard?

[Victarion Chainbreaker]

The notion that Jaime and Cersei are the spawn of Aerys II makes much more sense than it does for Tyrion. After all, it is said that the king took some liberties with the bedding at Tywin and Joanna's wedding and the two certainly share the Targaryens' sexual attraction for siblings. Given that, why is there is so much more discussion of Tyrion in that regard?

With Jaime and Cercei it's interesting but holds little consequence for the future. With Tyrion it sets up his (possible) credentials to become a dragon rider.

[Light a wight tonight]

Joanna was his first cousin, so yes it still would have been kinslaying.

I think there must be degrees of consanguinity to take into account. Rhaegar was Robert Baratheon's cousin, too, but he's not called kinslayer.