An other topic regarding Daenerys and slavery...Sex with Irri

[E-Ro]

lol, I'd rather not have the job of pleasuring 15 year old dany. Gross. Tv dany? Sure why not, some domination from her might be fun.

[SeanF]

E-Ro,

Would you "take her every way that a man can take a woman?"

[Sansa_Stark]

E-Ro,

Would you "take her every way that a man can take a woman?"

i would

[E-Ro]

E-Ro,

Would you "take her every way that a man can take a woman?"

I would do my best to please her.

[SeanF]

I don't know if HBO read this site. If they do, I've got a good idea which thread they're following.

[Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik]

But, really, it's totally incomparable to Dany's own experience as a wife; she had no choice but to remain with Drogo and have sex with him, whereas Irri can leave Dany's service at any time.

Dany has her great "you're all free' speach and then goes back into her tent where Irri is still there preparing a bath. Does Irri understand that it applies to her? Does it apply to her? Even if she does understand, Dany has just claimed ownership of everything. She tells them that they can go, but they're in the middle of no where. The beginning of her chapter she describes the landscape :

"The land was red and dead and parched"

At first read it seems like an awesome moment, but she's a slave master telling her slaves and subjects that that they can go off into the desert, or hang around and be her Khalasar. What a choice!

"To each of you I say, give me your hands and your hearts, and there will always bew a place for you"

If I was raised as a slave and had no concept of freedom, that would be confusing as well. I wouldn't even know what she was on about. The Dothraki don't either:

"She could feel the eyes of the khalasar on her as she entered her tent. The Dothraki were muttering and giving her strange sideways looks from the corners of their dark almond eyes."

As for Irri, even if she did think Dany was talking to her, going off into the desert alone is not really an option. How comfortable would a former slave/handmaiden(I don't see what much difference)be when attempting to take supplies from her former master and running off anyways?

[juanml82]

Dany has her great "you're all free' speach and then goes back into her tent where Irri is still there preparing a bath. Does Irri understand that it applies to her? Does it apply to her? Even if she does understand, Dany has just claimed ownership of everything. She tells them that they can go, but they're in the middle of no where. The beginning of her chapter she describes the landscape :

"The land was red and dead and parched"

At first read it seems like an awesome moment, but she's a slave master telling her slaves and subjects that that they can go off into the desert, or hang around and be her Khalasar. What a choice!

"To each of you I say, give me your hands and your hearts, and there will always bew a place for you"

If I was raised as a slave and had no concept of freedom, that would be confusing as well. I wouldn't even know what she was on about. The Dothraki don't either:

"She could feel the eyes of the khalasar on her as she entered her tent. The Dothraki were muttering and giving her strange sideways looks from the corners of their dark almond eyes."

As for Irri, even if she did think Dany was talking to her, going off into the desert alone is not really an option. How comfortable would a former slave/handmaiden(I don't see what much difference)be when attempting to take supplies from her former master and running off anyways?

Right, but compare the Irri and Danny sex scene with a high standing Dokrathi shoving Irri into his tent and penetrate her while he keeps a whip handy just in case she protest.

I take Danny's declaration as once they are in a safe place, she won't stop them if they want to leave her.

[PatrickStormborn]

As for Irri, even if she did think Dany was talking to her, going off into the desert alone is not really an option. How comfortable would a former slave/handmaiden(I don't see what much difference)be when attempting to take supplies from her former master and running off anyways?

Dany did not offer the Dothraki one chance of freedom; she is constantly reminding them and others in her retinue that they are free to leave her service at any time (which is more than can be said for most of the lords in Westeros).

And remember, the Dothraki voluntarily swear fealty to Daenerys after she births the dragons:

The cream-and-gold dragon was suckling at her left breast, the green-and-bronze at the right. Her arms cradled them close. The black-and-scarlet beast was draped across her shoulders, its long sinuous neck coiled under her chin. When it saw Jorah, it raised its head and looked at him with eyes as red as coals.

Wordless, the knight fell to his knees. The men of her khas came up behind him. Jhogo was the first to lay his arakh at her feet. "Blood of my blood," he murmured, pushing his face to the smoking earth. "Blood of my blood," she heard Aggo echo. "Blood of my blood," Rakharo shouted.

And after them came her handmaids, and then the others, all the Dothraki, men and women and children, and Dany had only to look at their eyes to know that they were hers now, today and tomorrow and forever, hers as they had never been Drogo's.

[Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik]

Right, but compare the Irri and Danny sex scene with a high standing Dokrathi shoving Irri into his tent and penetrate her while he keeps a whip handy just in case she protest.

Did this happen or are you making it up?

I take Danny's declaration as once they are in a safe place, she won't stop them if they want to leave her.

"I free you. Take off your collars. Go if you wish, no one will harm you. If you stay..."

Shes saying make the choice now, not make it whenever you feel like it. You can 'take' it anyway you want, but its not what she says or even hints at. She says go off into the desert, or stay.

[Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik]

And remember, the Dothraki voluntarily swear fealty to Daenerys after she births the dragons:

Lets look at who is left:

A small crowd of children had gathered to watch her, and beyond she glimpsed women going about their work, and withered old men staring at the flat blue sky with tired eyes, swatting feebly at bloodflies.

"The old remain," said Aggo. "The frightened, the weak, and the sick. And we who swore. We remain."

"They took Kal Drogo's herds, Khaleesi," Rakharo said. "We were too few to stop them. It is the right of the strong to take from the weak. They took many slaves as well, the Khal's, and yours, yet they left some few."

I think you could argue that her Ko obviously have a choice. However, they are the force that enforces a Khal's rights. You think its a coincidence that once she has several warriors at her command, that the others submit? Calling the reaction of the others 'swearing fealty' is not supported by the text. These are the people who don't have a choice, or don't understand that they have a choice. Those that understood freedom, already left.

[juanml82]

Did this happen or are you making it up?

Made up, but while the whip is more for visual imaginery, I hardly think it's far off the mark of how Dokrathi treat bed slaves.

Oh, disclaimer: No, I don't think rape is good. Dokrathi are certainly disgusting.

[PatrickStormborn]

Snip

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't think anything in the text points towards the Dothraki being any less free than the peasants sworn to lords in Westeros (handmaidens, cleaners, masters of arms, kitchen workers, etc.).

Hell, there are many people alive today who are technically free to leave their jobs but can't.

Made up, but while the whip is more for visual imaginery, I hardly think it's far off the mark of how Dokrathi treat bed slaves.

Oh, disclaimer: No, I don't think rape is good. Dokrathi are certainly disgusting.

Yep, the Dothraki are all collectively disgusting, because they're the only ethnic group in the series who are shown to have raped. :rolleyes:

[Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik]

Made up, but while the whip is more for visual imaginery, I hardly think it's far off the mark of how Dokrathi treat bed slaves.

The problem is that I don't think there is any mention of requiring force for sex within the Khalasar. So your imagery of the whip is not needed. At the wedding, as actors, the men would grab a woman and mount her. There is no reason to believe that force beyond the act itself is necessary. I think this is key because it shows that Dothraki women don't resist. So Irri pleasuring Dany despite no request or gesture doesn't necessarily mean it's consentual because she doesn't understand that she has a right not to consent. She may only understand duty the way she combs Dany's hair, and washes and dresses her with out being told to.

[juanml82]

Yep, the Dothraki are all collectively disgusting, because they're the only ethnic group in the series who are shown to have raped. :rolleyes:

I don't think I've ever said they are "the only ethnic group in the series who are shown to have raped"

The problem is that I don't think there is any mention of requiring force for sex within the Khalasar. So your imagery of the whip is not needed. At the wedding, as actors, the men would grab a woman and mount her. There is no reason to believe that force beyond the act itself is necessary. I think this is key because it shows that Dothraki women don't resist. So Irri pleasuring Dany despite no request or gesture doesn't necessarily mean it's consentual because she doesn't understand that she has a right not to consent. She may only understand duty the way she combs Dany's hair, and washes and dresses her with out being told to.

Well, we don't know much of Irri's backstory. We know she was a member of another khalasar, which was defeated by Khal Drogo's khalasar and she was take captive. I doubt that wasn't a traumatic experience for her, although we don't know the details.

As for the weddings, I tend to think about it in a similar fashion that the Wildlings: As Wildling women believe a man who kidnaps her sort of deserves to have sex with them, my impression is that Dorkrathi women (who are not necessarily slaves, as Irri) feel that any man who takes them during a wedding (and presumably other occasions) "proved his manhood" and thus, is a desirable partner. And if someone pulls him apart and kill him, then the second man turns into a desirable sexual partner.

This doesn't stop them from developing feelings for each other, though, as it's also shown in the series.

But it's not explicitly explained in the books, so it's certainly open for interpretation.

Oh, and just in case, no, doing the kind of stuff all those fictional characters do in this particular work of art is wrong, and people who look into ASOIAF for clues of how to behave in real life may need to check themselves with a psychiatrist.

[E-Ro]

[quote name="PatrickStormborn" post="5241940" timestamp="

Yep, the Dothraki are all collectively disgusting, because they're the only ethnic group in the series who are shown to have raped. :rolleyes:

[Nictarion]

Nvm

[Winter's Knight]

Well they are a culture that condones and even actively encourages rape. They aren't the only culture to do so, but they are a disgusting culture based on violence.

I messed up the quote. Sorry, pls don't hurt me.

So are the Wildlings and the Ironborn.

The Dothraki's main crime is being unrepresented, the way Ygritte and co. represent the Wildlings.

[Arya kiddin']

Whenever someone is arguing about "worst culture", a good check is to consider the ironborn first and see if your hypothesis still holds. That's the litmus test.

[E-Ro]

So are the Wildlings and the Ironborn.

The Dothraki's main crime is being unrepresented, the way Ygritte and co. represent the Wildlings.

Oh I detest the wildlings and ironborn as well. The wildlings are the most overrated band of clowns ever. And mance is the head clown, the troup master.

As for the ironborn, yeah, I don't like them either. But they are at least cooler/more interesting then dothraki and wildlings IMO.

[E-Ro]

Whenever someone is arguing about "worst culture", a good check is to consider the ironborn first and see if your hypothesis still holds. That's the litmus test.

The ironborn and dothraki are both cultures that accept/condone rape and slavery. Pretty equally shitty id say.