Small Questions v 10021

[Lost Melnibonean]

I know this is not exactly what you are looking for, but there's this:

butterbumps' Drawing Blood From a Bolton

There is a bit about "hybrids" in the Winterfell Huis Clos too, but I admit I cannot tell you the exact place.

Sorry if you had already thought of those.

Thanks.

[CockroachCaptain]

Waiting 2 years before naming your child is a wildling tradition, that is not followed in the Seven Kingdoms.

Ah, that makes sense. I never took that particular cultural difference into account. It actually really bothered me in the show when she named her baby so early, I was thinking, "Bad luck, you both should know better" but I guess it was just her and it's another glossed-over detail.

[DasKapital]

I know GRRM has said that 'years' are kept track of by astronomical observations, but is there a logical reason for the concept of a 365 day 'year' to have any meaning in Westeros? Someone just thought of making the fundamental long unit of time the period that it takes for the constellations to complete a full cycle?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I know GRRM has said that 'years' are kept track of by astronomical observations, but is there a logical reason for the concept of a 365 day 'year' to have any meaning in Westeros? Someone just thought of making the fundamental long unit of time the period that it takes for the constellations to complete a full cycle?

GRRM once said a year in Westeros is twelve months, just like on earth. I don't know any specifics though, but they most likely look at the moon and the stars at the Citadel.

[mindchap]

I know GRRM has said that 'years' are kept track of by astronomical observations, but is there a logical reason for the concept of a 365 day 'year' to have any meaning in Westeros? Someone just thought of making the fundamental long unit of time the period that it takes for the constellations to complete a full cycle?

GRRM once said a year in Westeros is twelve months, just like on earth. I don't know any specifics though, but they most likely look at the moon and the stars at the Citadel.

SSM:

What is the cycle of a year? Why do they count years when seasons are strange?

Twelve moon tuns to a year, as on earth. Even on our earth, years have nothing to do with the seasons, or with the cycles of the moon. A year is a measure of a solar cycle, of how long it takes the earth to make one complete revolution around the sun. The same is true for the world of Westeros. Seasons do not come into it.

Just adding the quote. :)

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

SSM:Just adding the quote. :)

Thank you! :D

[mindchap]

Thank you! :D

No prob.

[TheCrannogDweller]

Something new and peculiar (for me) came up in the Dany's vs Stannis' claim to the IT thread.

Here's the quote:

Renly shrugged. “Tell me, what right did my brother Robert ever have to the Iron Throne?” He did not wait for an answer. “Oh, there was talk of the blood ties between Baratheon and Targaryen, of weddings a hundred years past, of second sons and elder daughters..."

Does that mean that Rhaelle Targaryen was older than her brother (and Aerys' father), Jaeherys II?

And if so, is there any other proof for that (in SSM for example)?

[Emtreid]

Who was Lord of Dragonstone during Targaryen rule? When Robert was King his family's stronghold was held by Renly, had war not broken out would Renly's descendants (obvious issues aside) have held Storm's End forever and ended up like the Karstarks? Was Dragonstone given to the younger brother/relative of the King?

[The Crow's Third Eye]

Who was Lord of Dragonstone during Targaryen rule? When Robert was King his family's stronghold was held by Renly, had war not broken out would Renly's descendants (obvious issues aside) have held Storm's End forever and ended up like the Karstarks? Was Dragonstone given to the younger brother/relative of the King?

Dragonstone was the traditional seat of the heir to the Seven Kingdoms I believe, and the title was usually Prince of Dragonstone (I think).

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Something new and peculiar (for me) came up in the Dany's vs Stannis' claim to the IT thread.

Here's the quote:

Does that mean that Rhaelle Targaryen was older than her brother (and Aerys' father), Jaeherys II?

And if so, is there any other proof for that (in SSM for example)?

I don't think it necessarily means that. We know from tPatQ that Baratheon-Targaryen marriages weren't that weird.

Prince Aemon, father of Rhaenys, the Queen who never Was, was married to Jocelyn Baratheon.

Prince Aemond was betrothed to one of Lord Borros Baratheon's daughters (though more because the greens needed the Baratheon's political strength against the blacks than anything else)

Even if Rhaelle was older than her brothers, she was a woman, and after the Dance, the inheritance laws for the Iron Throne were modified, so that women could only inherit the throne if there were no males left to inherit.

We know that Jaehaerys II was born in 223 AC, when his father Aegon was 23 years old. Aegon V married for love, so his marriage was later in life than the ages of 13 to 17 that most Targaryens were when they got married. It is possible that both Duncan and Rhaelle were born before Jaehaerys, of course. But at this point, we can't be certain.

The weddings hundreth years past could easily refer to

Aemon and Jocelyn, whose daughter was born in 74 AC. That makes the marriage between these two take place more than 200 years ago

The second sons and elder daughters part is more difficult, since we still don't have a full family tree of either family.

It could refer to Princess Rhaenys, who was passed over twice for the inheritance for the throne. The only possible way for Rhaenys to even be considered, is if the was the eldest daughter of the eldest son (Aemon).

The second sons part could refer to Lord Borros. According to the updates MUSH family tree, he had only one son, who died young, and his brother and nephew became the Lords of Storm's End after them. Lord Borros himself died in the Dance. That would have taken the Baratheon line to the second son of that generation. The second sons part could also possibly refer to any other Targaryen who was passed over during the Great Council in 101 AC, or during the inheritance settlement in 97 AC, if said Targaryen eventually had offspring who married into the Baratheon line.

But it's all speculation.

There is no proof that Rhaelle was older than Jaehaerys, or older than the unknown third brother.

[Muggle]

Can some one explain what it means when GRRM uses italics. He seems to use it randomly. Some times for character inner thoughts and some times in a general narration. Some times just random words are italicize.

Is there from reason for the conflicting uses of this format?

What does a random work that is italicized mean? Is it a personal hint from GRRM to the readers? Saying this is an important sentence or plot point. ?

Its just confusing.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Who was Lord of Dragonstone during Targaryen rule? When Robert was King his family's stronghold was held by Renly, had war not broken out would Renly's descendants (obvious issues aside) have held Storm's End forever and ended up like the Karstarks? Was Dragonstone given to the younger brother/relative of the King?

Dragonstone belonged to the heir to the Throne. The title Prince of Dragonstone (or Princess of Dragonstone, in the case of Princess Rhaenyra) goes along with the castle.

Had Robert's reign continued without war and had Renly thus been allowed to stay Lord of Dragonstone, his eldest son would have become Lord of Storm's End after him.

With the Karstarks, I'm not sure how it went. But the stonghold of the Starks was Winterfell, and the Karstarks obviously weren't in posession of that :)

[Emtreid]

With the Karstarks, I'm not sure how it went. But the stonghold of the Starks was Winterfell, and the Karstarks obviously weren't in posession of that :)

Yeah, I just meant would they split off into a new house

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Yeah, I just meant would they split off into a new house

They would become the branch House Baratheon of Storm's End. Actually, Renly should have been described like that already, IIRC.

And perhaps, if his line had continued long enough, they would have changed their last name just as the Starks of Karl's Hold eventually became the Starks of Karlhold and then the Karstarks of Karldhold.

But I guess that having the same last name as the ruling royal house would give you more prestige. It would completely depend on the ruling lord.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Something new and peculiar (for me) came up in the Dany's vs Stannis' claim to the IT thread.

Here's the quote:

Does that mean that Rhaelle Targaryen was older than her brother (and Aerys' father), Jaeherys II?

And if so, is there any other proof for that (in SSM for example)?

That's a very good observation. Thanks do pointing it out.

[Lord Egeman]

Can some one explain what it means when GRRM uses italics. He seems to use it randomly. Some times for character inner thoughts and some times in a general narration. Some times just random words are italicize.

Is there from reason for the conflicting uses of this format?

What does a random work that is italicized mean? Is it a personal hint from GRRM to the readers? Saying this is an important sentence or plot point. ?

Its just confusing.

It is mostly thoughts, other than that it is for emphasis.

[Roose The Weddingcrasher]

Is it known why Roose Bolton was not ordered / didn't follow Robb to the Westerlands? The way I have it in mind, he and his army were simply left in the Riverlands, first holding the Green Fork (?), and then Harrenhall. When it would seem that they would bee needed in the West. If Stannis and his 16k would have taken KL despite the Wildfire, I am pretty sure that Robb with 20k could have taken Lannisport (without having the share the victory with the Ironborn).

[Fool of a Book]

Regarding Rugen (Varys) does anyone know how long Varys has disguised himself as the dungeon master in King's Landing?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Regarding Rugen (Varys) does anyone know how long Varys has disguised himself as the dungeon master in King's Landing?

Qyburn mentions that Rugen held his appointment from Aerys II, and that he came and went whenever he wanted to. It seems logical that Varys dressed up as Rugen during Aerys' reign already (and perhaps spoke with the imprisoned Brandon Stark at one point?), and every now and then appeared as Rugen in the cells, to show he was still alive, and to keep up appearance.

"Rugen was the man’s name. An undergaoler who had charge of the black cells. The chief undergaoler describes him as portly, unshaven, gruff of speech. He held his appointment of the old king, Aerys, and came and went as he pleased. The black cells have not oft been occupied in recent years. The other turnkeys were afraid of him, it seems, but none knew much about him.

He had no friends, no kin. Nor did he drink or frequent brothels. His sleeping cell was damp and dreary, and the straw he slept upon was mildewed. His chamber pot was overflowing."

Rennifer Longwaters, who works in the dungeons himself, says this:

"Unkempt, unshaven, coarse of speech. I misliked the man, ’tis true, I do confess it. Rugen was here when I first came, twelve years past. He held his appointment from King Aerys. The man was seldom here, it must be said. I made note of it in my reports, my lord. I most suredly did, I give you my word upon it, the word of a man with royal blood."

"Rugen was here when need be, my lord. That must be said. The black cells are little used. Before your lordship’s little brother was sent down, we had Grand Maester Pycelle for a time, and before him Lord Stark the traitor. There were three others, common men, but Lord Stark gave them to the Night’s Watch. I did not think it good to free those three, but the papers were in proper order. I made note of that in a report as well, you may be certain of it."

Rugen was created at least 17 years prior, during Aerys' reign, though it stands to reason that Varys has been dressing up for a little while longer. That way, he could keep better check on the prisoners down there, if they were of any importance (like how he spoke with Ned during his imprisonment).