ckal Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 @ sunbroDragons are not game changers? Really? Have you heard of Harrenhall?Dothraki have crossed the sea already with Dany, precedent has been set. They will cross and join the fight. If not then why have them in the story at all? It's called world building. Not every thing in the story must serve a major end game purpose or act as a deus ex machina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muggle Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Dorth Sea provides as much hay as any one would every want. She has an surplus of non skilled, non warrior slaves to do this. She can march her Dorth Army over the Dorth Sea to Volantis. Then Barristian can march the part of her army that couldn't sail to Volantis down the Valyrian Road taking Mantarys along the way. I honestly dont think getting Food will be much of a problem for a moving army. I dont think her army will be in the 100 thousand mark. But easily she will land in Westeros with 30k+. She will have control of Volantis to resupply her army in Westeros. She is going to have seasoned battle commanders at her disposal. She will leave much of her army behind. In Essos But ultimately she will fail to take the Iron Throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valyrian Sphinx Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 The only way for Dany to feasibly accumulate and sustain even a fifth of the forces you're saying is if she sacks at least a third of the Free Cities on her way to Westeros. The dragons are really her only wild card here - she's not going to reunite all the Dothraki and lead them west. Her Unsullied, as pointed out before, are doomed outside of formation. Her sellsword companies all together equal 2,000 men at best. She's lost the support of the Golden Company. Who knows what'll happen with the Iron Fleet... Aside from Drogon, Rhaegal, and Viserion (if she can even control all three by herself) I don't see how she's going to put any of what you listed up there to use conquering Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 Agree to disagree on this story line just being world building. BTW, I enjoy arguing and debate so this thread is fun for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunbro Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Agree to disagree on this story line just being world building.BTW, I enjoy arguing and debate so this thread is fun for me! EDIT: whoops though you were on about Harrenhal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twenty of House Goodmen Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I wouldn't say Dany's dragons are useless. They're far from useless. But they're are smaller than the previous Targaryen dragons, and those dragons were also likely trained for war. Being smaller does give them the advantage of speed though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckal Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Agree to disagree on this story line just being world building.BTW, I enjoy arguing and debate so this thread is fun for me! I'm didn't say her whole storyline is world building. You asked why there are so many Dothraki if they weren't going to magically all combine into an army of 100k to all of a sudden over come their ancient fear of water and fight for her in Westeros for some unknown reason. EDIT: whoops though you were on about Harrenhal This user is incorrect about Harrenhal and using that as a comparison as that was a completely different scenario. Aegon and his sisters were all experieneced dragon riders since they were kids on dragons whose combined ages totalled in the hundreds, whose size were so massive and flame so hot they could swallow huge beasts whole and melt stone and metal (read TPatQ; only huge old dragons are capable of this. many younger smaller dragons fell in battle and quite easily at that on occassion), who had likely seen combat before. Dany's dragons are a couple years old, have never been ridden before and don't have experienced and seasoned riders now (Dany rode Drogon once or twice), have been locked and chained up, are not very big, and will see combat for the first time in the Battle of Meereen, and we don't even know if they will all survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunbro Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Yeah I agree with you :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Jennings Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 dragons are absolutely a game changer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunbro Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 dragons are absolutely a game changer. They're a definite boon, but Danys dragons are not game changers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckal Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 They're a definite boon, but Danys dragons are not game changers. They certainly seem small enough to be taken down eventually but it will come down to forces of Westeros having no experience of fighting against dragons. Fear will be a factor as well. From TPatQ, we were told that the Free Cities developed tactics to fight dragons based on their experience against Daemon and Caraxes. The Free Cities navy employed tactics as well that killed 2 dragons being ridden during the story. Criston Cole was prepared with what was a decent plan to take down a dragon (or the best available to him at least), but the execution failed because of fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 This is purely my thoughts based on what has been happening and where everyone is.Dany has her unsullied army, her infantry.Outdated by two millennia.Dany is about to roast a Khal and take his men, then go to Dosh Khaleen and unite the rest of the Dothraki by showing up on her mount(Dragon), her calvary / archers.That's more hope than probability. And the Dothraki are shit as soldiers. Utter shit.Barriston is training knights currently for her, plus she has some sellsword company's still.Two knights, thirty squires. And 500 of the worst sellswords ever.Victarion is heading to her with a fleet of ships, he will likely break the blockade and take even more ships for her fleet, her Navy.Yes, a very valid forceShe already has the only air force in all of Westeros, dragons.So assuming this happens, she has 8000+ infantry100,000 Dothraki(if I remember the number right) as her calvary / archersUnknown number of knights, I would include the sell swords here just due to experienceVictarions fleet3 dragonsMy question, who can match her? I don't mean if ALL of Westeros joined together in harmony, I mean, what force that is still around can match that?Everybody. Literally. Maybe except the Lannisters and their 3,000 remaining men. The ships brought by Vic Greyjoy. Also i think she is going to sack Voltanis. Which is a big port city. She will find her ships there. And increase her army there also. Form the implied slave revolt / the Red God followers.Vic's ship can take maybe another 1,000-2,000 men beside his own. Infantry, no horses. Volantis provides more transport, but that's only a maybe and still only four digits beyond the crews themselves, maybe, maybe a bit above 10,000. Infantry. Horses take ten times the place. @ sunbroDragons are not game changers? Really? Have you heard of Harrenhall?Dothraki have crossed the sea already with Dany, precedent has been set. They will cross and join the fight. If not then why have them in the story at all?"The Dothraki Sea is made of grass, fool." - Badass fisherman to Victarion Greyjoy. The Dothraki never crossed any sea made out of actual water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunbro Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 They certainly seem small enough to be taken down eventually but it will come down to forces of Westeros having no experience of fighting against dragons. Fear will be a factor as well. From TPatQ, we were told that the Free Cities developed tactics to fight dragons based on their experience against Daemon and Caraxes. The Free Cities navy employed tactics as well that killed 2 dragons being ridden during the story. Criston Cole was prepared with what was a decent plan to take down a dragon (or the best available to him at least), but the execution failed because of fear. Isn't TPatQ an actual in universe book though? And that clearly shows that a lot of dragons can be taken down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 One more statement then I'm done. I did start the thread with AT THE END OF THE WINDS OF WINTER! Meaning the dragons will be one or two years older at least. Look how much they have grown in one year. And yes Dothraki have crossed the sea, they did it in a ship with Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Jennings Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 They're a definite boon, but Danys dragons are not game changers. Without said Dragons Dany would have died outside of Qarth. Without said Dragons Dany would not have gotten the Unsullied. Look at it how you may but those dragons are definite game changers in one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunbro Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Without said Dragons Dany would have died outside of Qarth. Without said Dragons Dany would not have gotten the Unsullied. Look at it how you may but those dragons are definite game changers in one way or another. As a plot device yes. In reference to a direct war and as apart of her forces in Westeros they're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Of course the dragons are game changers, those arguing otherwise are kidding themselves. That doesn't mean they can't be defeated but there is no question the amount of carnage they could cause on a battlefield when they are unleashed. That being said I am of the belief that Dany's real destiny is going to be the fight with the Others. She might either win the throne and not sit on it long due to the threat or she may even put aside her ambition for the throne (like she did by staying in Mereen) and immediately head north to join the fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunbro Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Of course the dragons are game changers, those arguing otherwise are kidding themselves. That doesn't mean they can't be defeated but there is no question the amount of carnage they could cause on a battlefield when they are unleashed. That being said I am of the belief that Dany's real destiny is going to be the fight with the Others. She might either win the throne and not sit on it long due to the threat or she may even put aside her ambition for the throne (like she did by staying in Mereen) and immediately head north to join the fight. They're young, undisciplined and untrained. Their riders will have almost no experience, if any at all. We have been shown a lot of dragons in tPatQ and most of them were killed by simple means. They can be grounded by rain storms, blizzards are going to be dreadful for them to face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueEyedCrow Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 A lot hinges on her control of the dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Howland Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Victarion is heading to her with a fleet of ships, he will likely break the blockade and take even more ships for her fleet, her Navy. Why do you think Victarion is going to join her? There's a lot of reasons to believe he intends to kidnap her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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