Jon's Queen Consort Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 (if the boys were indeed bastards which, let me remind you, was never proven. NO ONE ever said they took after Strong, just that they looked common.) Could it be because of their Arryn family? I always thought that it could be because of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 What? Can you really imagine a scenario where she could have said "for Baela" or "for Rhaena"? Let's be real here. She could have as well pinned a sign "Yes, I was an unfaithful wife and my sons are not Laenor's" on her chest. In a perfect world, Baela or Rhaena inheriting should and would have worked (if the boys were indeed bastards which, let me remind you, was never proven. NO ONE ever said they took after Strong, just that they looked common.) In Westeros, though, there were alliances and loyaties, and practicalities to be considered. Rhaenyra did the best she could in this situation and it was good enough for Corlys. He was wise enough to recognize that a solution that gave Baela queenship and Rhaena the status of Lady Velaryon was better than placing a young girl in a situation to fight adult men for her rights... and face Rhaenyra's enmity. The fact she okay two bastards to get the land shows that she did not care for who got what. The children's appearance already lay pruff of who they are. They looked like nothing of Laenor, Harwin was with her more then Laenor, and Laenor outright apporved her favoring of Harwin when instead of being outraged she gave a favor to him, he gave a favor to Joffrey. Under Rhaenyra Jacerys had other lands he could get, just taking something that wasn't his was needed. He never gave an answer, he was greatly ill, and he in the end pushed for his own bastard sons to have the land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anath Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Could it be because of their Arryn family? I always thought that it could be because of that. http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/113133-rogue-prince-or-kings-brother-part-ii/page-22 My posts on the matter start at #427. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/113133-rogue-prince-or-kings-brother-part-ii/page-22 My posts on the matter start at #427. Great! Thank you. I believe that Rhaenyra's proposition was the best thing that could happen for the Velaryons. Their blood and name stay safe and have more Targaryen blood in the mix and the Granddaughter becomes the Queen that Rhaenys hadn't the chance to be. For them is a win win case. I believe that the bastardy was Hellicents :bs: . Sure Rhaenyra could had a fling with the Strong guy but 3 times? C'mon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Great! Thank you. I believe that Rhaenyra's proposition was the best thing that could happen for the Velaryons. Their blood and name stay safe and have more Targaryen blood in the mix and the Granddaughter becomes the Queen that Rhaenys hadn't the chance to be. For them is a win win case. I believe that the bastardy was Hellicents :bs: . Sure Rhaenyra could had a fling with the Strong guy but 3 times? C'mon! How was it the best? A batard would claim their land and name, Rhaena would just be his consort. Hway does it matter how Targ blood in them? Rhaenys was a queen that should have been in her own right, not just a brood mare. Well lets look at Cersei. Yeah that could happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 How was it the best? A batard would claim their land and name, Rhaena would just be his consort. Hway does it matter how Targ blood in them? Rhaenys was a queen that should have been in her own right, not just a brood mare. Well lets look at Cersei. Yeah that could happen. Sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Rupert Connington Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Green. I love the Hightowers and Stormlords. Also, I'm a Criston Cole fan :).But if truth be told, both sides had their massive flaws and committed terrible atrocities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs.Grumpy Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Come on guys, it is obvious that the kids got their look from their Strong dad. Arryn blood? Peh! It sounds desperate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pod The Impaler Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 The more I read over TPATQ and the Rogue Prince, the more my answer is . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Rupert Connington Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Come on guys, it is obvious that the kids got their look from their Strong dad. Arryn blood? Peh! It sounds desperate. Brilliant point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Rhaenyra's sons are never compared to Ser Harwin in any publication we have in the same way Gyldayn mentions Laenor's nose etc. in TRP. As long as this is not happened, and as long as we don't know whether the boys shared Harwin's eye color or hair we cannot be completely sure that they were his. Rhaenyra has many Arryn ancestors, and Laenor also has non-Valyrian ancestors besides his Targaryen and Velaryon ancestors (through his grandmother Jocelyn Baratheon he is descended from the ancient Storm King line). Jace, Luke, and Joff could all look like their great-grandfather Rodrik Arryn in his youth, for all we know, and nobody may realize this because the man is long dead. I'd not bet all my money on that, but it is still a possibility. But even if it isn't. Children born in wedlock are the children of the father, as long as he does not question the fidelity of his wife. Laenor recognized the children as his own, and that's it. This is not comparable to Cersei and Robert, as Cersei was cheating on Robert without his consent, and Robert's brothers had actually reason to challenge his 'children' not being his children would invalidate their claims. But Rhaenyra's will always remain Rhaenyra's sons, and - modern paternity tests aside - there will never be conclusive proof. Even if Rhaenyra had been caught abed with Ser Harwin around the same time one of her sons was conceived we would still lack proof. She could share her bed with Laenor and Harwin on the same day, assuming that he was around at that time. And while there is talk that the marriage was not consummated during the wedding, there is no proof for that, either, nor does anyone give us the rough dates of the conception of Rhaenyra's sons along with a report where Laenor was around those events. We would need both to conclude that he could not have been the father (just as the dates on Aerys and Joanna's movements give us clues that Aerys may be the father of Tyrion). I imagine that Rhaenyra may have been aware of this simple math stuff, and may thus have allowed Harwin to impregnate her (if he was the father) while Laenor was with her own Dragonstone or she was visiting him on Driftmark.Unless TRP omits much, it does not seem likely that Rhaenyra was particularly fond of Ser Harwin. If Laenor refused to father children on her - which is not unlikely - then Harwin may have been essentially nothing but a sperm donor. Back when she and Ser Criston broke she may have used Harwin for comfort sex, or to get payback on Criston (which then caused him to behave as he did during the wedding tourney). But even if there were: Rhaenyra and Viserys I could easily have legitimized Rhaenyra's bastards if they were be declared or recognized as such. Cersei's children could never have become Robert's after being revealed to be fathered by Jaime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetiger Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Blacks! For Rhaenyra! For Daemon! For Seasnake! For Rhaenys! For ser Addam Velaryon!;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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