Roose knew Arya was highborn/maybe true identity?

[Mithras]

Here's something that's either ENTIRELY NEW SPECULATION, or at least SEMI-RARE.

(UNLESS IT WAS MENTIONED FIVE MINUTES AGO IN THIS VERY THREAD).

What if Roose is so aware of the Arya situation..... so very aware.....

that he knows not to mess with a girl who has a Faceless Man watching over her !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Huh? Huh?

Is it "groundbreaking" ?????? (Or did the entire Roose-at-Harrenhal era happen after Jaquen had already moved on?)

Jaqen changed his face just after the weasel soup and left. Arya stayed in Harenhal and served Roose until she escaped.

[fantasmas]

But Arya does not have the look of a proper highborn daughter. She is a mess. Even Harwin didnot recognize her at first.

That's after Arya had been living in the wilderness for a while. She did have to dress properly and take baths as Roose's cupbearer.

[ShadowCat Rivers]

I just don't see Roose telling someone of common birth to call him 'My Lord' and not expecting 'M'lord' in it's place.

The fact that Arya transistions from lack of courtesy straight to "My Lord" should be a telling sign to someone as worldly as Roose. (1)

Not that he HAD to suspect she was indeed THE Arya, but again she has a striking Stark appearance and speaks like a highborn lady (2), which has repeatedly been mentioned as a way to mark someone of noble birth.

(1) She does not make the transition on her own. Roose corrects her twice.

“Ten, my lord,” he reminded her.

“You will call me my lord when you speak to me, Nan,” the lord said mildly.

The transition does not occur "smoothly" either:

“Yes, your lord. I mean, my lord.”

Also, the grammar indicates that speaking courteously does not come naturally to her. Most times there is a full stop before "my lord". This pause in her speech separates the phrase she would say naturally from the way of expression that was recently imposed on her and she has to remember.

(2) Speaking like a highborn is more than pronunciation. It's also advanced syntax, use of complex sentences, refined vocabulary etc. A quick look at their interactions will show that Arya's pattern of speech consists mostly of one or two word phrases and, in any case, only basic vocabulary. There is nothing to indicate higher education, contrary to the show where she speaks a lot, demonstrates knowledge of history etc.

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If Roose had any suspicion that she was highborn, he would surely investigate her origins. Whoever she might be, she would be useful either as a hostage or as a "favor" to her house. He would never just leave her to her fate. Remember his reaction regarding Catelyn losing Tyrion.

An investigation would, most logically, reveal her as a Stark and there is absolutely no way to let loose this particular end.

As to why he is amused, I have two alternative explanations.

One, he finds it amusing to have a conversation with a "talking supper".

Two, Roose is a sadist in his own way. He is amused by her fear for the bloody mummers and her obvious worry of what will happen to her and he answers -by exception- this one question because he expects to enjoy her expression when he confirms that her fate will be what she fears the most.

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ETA re: pronunciation. The wildlings say " o' " instead of " of ", "me" instead of "my". The Riverlands' folk we have met, usually pronounce "of" and "my" in the "correct" way. It seems that "m'lord" is not an issue of pronunciation, that they normally cut "my" to "m' ". It seems to be an expression they learned from their parents. If someone didn't know any courtesies, I don't see why he/she would naturally say "m'lord" instead of "my lord" when, for examble, they say "my life" and not "m'life".

[Iona]

Anyone care to explain the amused look then?

I think you might be reading too much into Roose's amusement. He's the goddamn Leech Lord who flays men, and I doubt any of his underlings, especially scrawny cupbearers talk to him without him talking to them first. He could just be amused that Nan had the guts to question him and he gets to see her squirm after he shows Nan her place.

[conon394]

Well I'd say he would have nor reason to nor did he recognize her.

To recap the same points (many pointed out above) its unlikely the Stark's and Bolton's were hardly friendly. So and given Arya's habits its unlikely he saw recently or often. Second she had endured starvation, and beatings and struggling to survive - she looked like peasant and for example the hands of one (her entry interview before being sent to Weese). Harwell did not recognize her, nor did Samwall say to himself that girl looks like John. She may have had the Stark look thing, but once you are assumed dead and in a place nobody suspects you that rather unlikely to jar a memory - particularity w/o Google, Photos or Printing. There is no illustrated Who's who of Westros and even if did exist it would show a very different girl anyway.

Take Jon A's search for Robert's bastards - he knows what his looking for and he knows the blood line runs true. The Starks - not so much (blood line). So insert Ned - if you imagine Arya as a bastard whore in King's landing Jon might find her on her 'look'. But I doubt if was just riding by with reason to care he would see anything - what would there be to see? Does everyone know she had the Stark look Thing? Ned has two older children and Bastard he keeps close, she was only one of 3 smaller ones not really all that important unfortunately in the long run - to outsiders. Everyone will want to Rob the first born (the spare Bran), Sansa the Daughter who matters, even Jon - who might be being groomed as Measter or some other loyal position etc. But Arya and Rikon are more or less after thoughts until they live longer or somebody dies.

I also agree with Iona above - he was simply amused at her daring to ask a question and unlike his bastard his not blindly and stupidly cruel. I think it amused him to be subtlety cruel behind an air actual 'niceness'. As I said I doubt he knew she was, but I am rather more sure he knew there were at least several people who wished her ill and her fate was unlikely to happy when he left and she lost her place and status.

[Mithras]

That's after Arya had been living in the wilderness for a while. She did have to dress properly and take baths as Roose's cupbearer.

She was the Hand's daughter in KL and Tommen/Myrcella didnot recognize her.

[Greymoon]

While I doubt that Arya ever met the Boltons since she doesn't recognize them, Domeric did apparently ride horses with Lyanna. He must've seen her at some point, and Arya bears a strong resemblance to Lyanna as a child. She also has a strong resemblance to her father.

I doubt we'll ever know one way or the other. The random orphan noted for freeing Northmen must have been curious to Roose, though. Why wouldn't he lock her up? I don't know. He's not Ramsay, after all. Roose makes a lot of strange decisions because as Barbrey says, he likes to toy with people in a different way than Ramsay does.

I doubt it was Lyanna that Domeric was riding with. From the timeline it makes more sense if the "Lord Rickard's daughter" refers to Alys Karstark, who was 13 when Domeric died - he died in 297, and as far as we know he'd only served as a page in Barrotown (4 years) and later as a squire in the Vale (three years). The "page" is an "apprentice squire" - in the “historical” middle ages they were young boys from age 8 to 14. In Westeros boys become squires around the age of 12, so we can assume that Domeric was around 15 + when he returned north to "meet" his bastard brother. Karhold is not so far from the Dreadfort in any case; and Alys is apparently an able rider, since she managed to get to the Wall on her own, outracing her pursuer.

According to Jon, Alys and Arya bear a resemblance: both are “all elbows and knees”, they have the same hair, the same eyes, long faces etc. etc. Alys gives Jon “pause” because though her age doesn’t seem right, she does look like Arya. It's possible that the "Stark look" is rather more common than assumed, in the north. Or that Ned's mother was a Karstark. We don't know enough at this point ;) but in any case, I don't think that Roose should have recognized Arya because some 15 odd years ago, he'd seen Lyanna Stark.

EDIT: typo

[JaegrM]

Ok facts;

1. Arya has the Stark/Ned/Lyanna look

a) Bolton knows at the very least what Ned and Lyanna look like, everyone in RL and in Westeros makes note of people who resemble people they know.

2. Roose KNOWS Arya is MIA and HH is not exactly an impossible location for her to end up if captured while fleeing.

3. Roose "plays with people" according to Dustin

4. "My Lord" followed by an "Amused look" IMO is quite telling. (Sooo maybe not a "fact" since that's MY take)

Furthermore, if he'd already planned his betrayal of Robb at this point, and had a false Arya promised to his bastard, what better way to be rid of the real deal than to abandon her to Vargo?

Would he risk killing the one behind the 'weasal soup'? I'm fairly certain to the other northerners that would appear similar to killing a hero/someone who trusted Lord Bolton enough to do a dangerous job in order to free them.

We're also told again and again that the area of your birth affects the way one speaks, Tyrion can tell that kid from the golden company is from King's Landing specifically- Not just the area of westeros near KL.

I'm honestly pretty surprised no one else seems to think that Bolton could be aware she was a northern noble, if not Arya herself

[JaegrM]

Oh, and could be misremembering-

But Doesn't Ned invite all of his bannerman to Winterfell, feasts them, and in a place of honor with his family?

Arya, who never really cared could easily have overlooked Roose, but he seems the type to take notice of everything.

[Pod The Impaler]

The transition does not occur "smoothly" either:

“Yes, your lord. I mean, my lord.”

Also, the grammar indicates that speaking courteously does not come naturally to her. Most times there is a full stop before "my lord". This pause in her speech separates the phrase she would say naturally from the way of expression that was recently imposed on her and she has to remember.

(2) Speaking like a highborn is more than pronunciation. It's also advanced syntax, use of complex sentences, refined vocabulary etc. A quick look at their interactions will show that Arya's pattern of speech consists mostly of one or two word phrases and, in any case, only basic vocabulary. There is nothing to indicate higher education, contrary to the show where she speaks a lot, demonstrates knowledge of history etc.

Regarding this part, I always thought that Arya was deliberately downplaying her highborn speech to enhance her deception; she knows all this stuff, but wants to feign being someone more ignorant than she actually is.

[Hangover of the Morning]

what better way to be rid of the real deal than to abandon her to Vargo?

Far too risky to just leave here to a "probable death". Roose is a calculated man. If he wanted to get rid of her, he'll make sure that she is dead.

Besides Arya is too much of a valuable hostage to just throw her away. He could always get quietly rid of her in the future if needs be. The Starks and the Lannisters both would pay very well for Arya. Or he could have married her to Ramsay.

[JaegrM]

Regarding this part, I always thought that Arya was deliberately downplaying her highborn speech to enhance her deception; she knows all this stuff, but wants to feign being someone more ignorant than she actually is.

I always took it as Arya, being the willful, disrespectful child with wolf's blood in her, just never bothered to apply the courtesies she was taught at home.

She knows to say "my Lord" when she's supposed, but rarely bothers to use such courtesy because she doesn't really give a damn, so when first attempting to use it, it makes her sound like a simpleton, I don't think any clever deception was meant to be implied.

[JaegrM]

Far too risky to just leave here to a "probable death". Roose is a calculated man. If he wanted to get rid of her, he'll make sure that she is dead.

Besides Arya is too much of a valuable hostage to just throw her away. He could always get quietly rid of her in the future if needs be. The Starks and the Lannisters both would pay very well for Arya. Or he could have married her to Ramsay.

He has a fake Arya, who will do as bid,opposed to the real deal- EVERYONE knows Arya is a willfull child prone to not follow directions

.

Leaving her with Hoat, knowing his reputation, he can more than likely (safely) assume she wont last long with him, and if her true location is discovered Bolton could just be like "look, she said her name was Nan, she had really nasty hair, filthy, and dressed like a peasant. How was I to know it was her? I beg forgiveness, b;ah blah blah"

Robb would be mad, but I don't think Bolton would suffer much.

[Thucydides]

Far too risky to just leave here to a "probable death". Roose is a calculated man. If he wanted to get rid of her, he'll make sure that she is dead.

Besides Arya is too much of a valuable hostage to just throw her away. He could always get quietly rid of her in the future if needs be. The Starks and the Lannisters both would pay very well for Arya. Or he could have married her to Ramsay.

No, Roose is far more interested in plausible deniability than in certainty of outcome. He's an opportunist willing to take what he can when he can, so long as it cannot be traced back to him.

Vargo Hoat is near certain death for Arya. And if he's not, then the Mountain-led Lannister forces certainly are, and Roose entertains no doubts about whether the Mountain will retake Harrenhal.

Also, fArya is safer than Arya. The rallying cry of the Northen Clans is "Ned's girl." To the extant that people do not believe that fArya is real, it insulates him from genuine concern for a genuine Stark.

[JaegrM]

Far too risky to just leave here to a "probable death". Roose is a calculated man. If he wanted to get rid of her, he'll make sure that she is dead.

Besides Arya is too much of a valuable hostage to just throw her away. He could always get quietly rid of her in the future if needs be. The Starks and the Lannisters both would pay very well for Arya. Or he could have married her to Ramsay.

His Betrayal is already decided, he has a fake Arya, to claim ransom on the real deal would give away that game, not to mention he knows Robb's gonna die, Cat's dead/a hostage, any other relatives don't know her....

Who would he ransom her to?

[JaegrM]

leaving her a ward/casualty of Hoat's gives him deniability, and it would realistically be near impossible for an escape.

[Thucydides]

So I think that every objection to Roose's knowledge of Arya has been overcome. The only remaining problem is that the book does not give us a POV that speaks decisively to the issue.

[ShadowCat Rivers]

Ok, lets get to meta arguments.

What would this add to the story, except that it would make Roose look really observant but also really stupid?

leaving her a ward/casualty of Hoat's gives him deniability, and it would realistically be near impossible for an escape.

The girl was involved in the freaking weasel soup. If anything, he should have considered that the possibility of an escape was fairly greater than zero. Actually, she did escape. The notoriously calculating man failed in calculating probabilities.

So I think that every objection to Roose's knowledge of Arya has been overcome. The only remaining problem is that the book does not give us a POV that speaks decisively to the issue.

On the contrary, I think that this m'lord and amused thing is a very weak basis for this assumption. ETA: let's agree to disagree here, I feel it's becoming fruitless to continue the debate on that.

[JaegrM]

Ok, lets get to meta arguments.

What would this add to the story, except that it would make Roose look really observant but also really stupid?

The girl was involved in the freaking weasel soup. If anything, he should have considered that the possibility of an escape was fairly greater than zero. Actually, she did escape. The notoriously calculating man failed in calculating probabilities.

On the contrary, I think that this m'lord and amused thing is a very weak basis for this assumption. ETA: let's agree to disagree here, I feel it's becoming fruitless to continue the debate on that.

The weasel soup aided the northman, if anything it would appear her allegiance is to the northern lords/Roose himself. She's given a much higher ranking position, and Roose had no reason to suspect any type of betrayal.

As for the amused point being a non-argument, doesn't Reek/Theon think both that it pleases and amuses Roose to hear him say "m'lord' ?

[JaegrM]

Ok, lets get to meta arguments.

What would this add to the story, except that it would make Roose look really observant but also really stupid?

The girl was involved in the freaking weasel soup. If anything, he should have considered that the possibility of an escape was fairly greater than zero. Actually, she did escape. The notoriously calculating man failed in calculating probabilities.

On the contrary, I think that this m'lord and amused thing is a very weak basis for this assumption. ETA: let's agree to disagree here, I feel it's becoming fruitless to continue the debate on that.

Also, if she were to escape... Where would she go?

Also ROOSE PLAYS WITH PEOPLE, why would someone like that, not wanna see what could possibly come of having a highborn girl think she was pulling a fast one?

Sitting in HH has to be pretty damn boring, let her have her fun and see what comes of it is not outside his character