Daenerys the betrayer

[jon stark I]

So everyone that's ever sacked a city is as evil as the Good Masters?

Whats your point?

[butterbumps!]

You are hardly alone in that estimate. I'm not sure which side is more numeous, but it's a close call either way. Especially with the longtimers.

Which diplomatic prospects? In Essos, hardly anyone trusts her as far they can spit. And in Westeros.

Arianne is really worried about the accounts of Dany.

. Even Quentyn was worried, and he dismissed all the (true!) accounts of her untrustworthness as vile slander made up by the slavers.

In a way, Dany does appear as vile as the Freys - and that image will spread.

I answered this already, I thought. I pointed to the idea that Dany will probably be distrusted by the heads of governments (slavers, lords, etc), but she's revered and trusted by the people. She is unequivocally seen as a great hope and someone to take up their cause by the oppressed classes.

[Nictarion]

Whats your point?

That sacking a city, as bad as it is, is not as bad as the human suffering machine known as the Good Masters of Astapor.

[David Selig]

Yeah, how terrible to cheat the biggest monsters in the world... :cool4:

Besides, these morons deserved to be cheated simply for being mind-bogglingly stupid.

[Carey Snow]

So you are okey with mass murder?If it is someone you label as evil then it is okey to do anything you want?I hate do this but to Hitler that evil was jews how is it any different then your point of view?

She only killed the men age 13 and above. It was a war , she declared it, and she won it. Yes brutally, but Westeros is a brutal world.

[Hutch]

I like how anytime someone on here is feeling argumentative the over generalizations come pouring in. "Everyone" is not "absolutely ok" with it. In fact I've seen countless people shame her for that reason only.

In what is only my opinion, (which is all any of these posts really are) it was good reading, and one of the few interesting things her character has done. If this is going to be yet another thread devoted to fruitless bickering over how horrible a fantasy character is for going against real life ideals, battle tactics, etc, might I suggest just rereading any other thousand+ threads that have all ready done it? Just a thought, and it might save some time and (for lack of a better word) inevitable butthurtness.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

I answered this already, I thought. I pointed to the idea that Dany will probably be distrusted by the heads of governments (slavers, lords, etc), but she's revered and trusted by the people. She is unequivocally seen as a great hope and someone to take up their cause by the oppressed classes.

...by the slaves. Only by the slaves (and the Lamb People). In Essos. Not in Westeros, where she'll be going up against the gods, old and new alike, and against the very culture. Nor in Braavos, where dragons are a horror to remember, the Valyrian dragonlords are the enemies of old and treaties and promises are considered a serious affair.

[Bronn Urgandy]

So everyone that's ever sacked a city is as evil as the Good Masters?

Nah, some try to keep their men in hand. A real life example would be Wellington setting up gallows in cities he conquered for his own men. Dany ordered a mass slaughter.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

She only killed the men age 13 and above. It was a war , she declared it, and she won it. Yes brutally, but Westeros is a brutal world.

ESSOS.

[Bronn Urgandy]

I thought this thread would be about the 3 treasons, and Dany potentially being the betrayer (Drogo, Unsullied deal and Aegon).

Shame

[Carey Snow]

ESSOS.

Fair enough, Essos is a brutal civilization as well.

[Carey Snow]

I thought this thread would be about the 3 treasons, and Dany potentially being the betrayer (Drogo, Unsullied deal and Aegon).

Shame

That is an interesting take. I will have to reread the prophecy.

[Nictarion]

Nah, some try to keep their men in hand. A real life example would be Wellington setting up gallows in cities he conquered for his own men. Dany ordered a mass slaughter.

Well, she did put some restrictions on the order. It wasn't kill every last person in the city.

[butterbumps!]

...by the slaves. Only by the slaves (and the Lamb People). In Essos. Not in Westeros, where she'll be going up against the gods, old and new alike, and against the very culture. Nor in Braavos, where dragons are a horror to remember, the Valyrian dragonlords are the enemies of old and treaties and promises are considered a serious affair.

We don't know how Braavos will feel about her, actually. In a previous war in the disputed lands, Braavos appeared on the side of Aegon I, who flew out with his dragon. I'm agnostic on this, but we do know of a case where a dragon and Braavos made common cause.

And yes, by the slaves-- it's the oppressed classes who see Dany as a hero. I wouldn't shrug that off, though. The smallfolk of Westeros are both oppressed and increasingly restless. She might end up making them love her.

[Sansa_Stark]

Now, while, you guys might not think what Dany did to Astapor in Storm was that bad. Reread, The Windblown chapter. It shows how fucked up Astapor is now thanks to her.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I am not gonna say for one more time how I feel about mass torture and mass murdering people without any actual proof all I am going to say is that Dany was played like a lute during her reign in Meereen.

[Nictarion]

Now, while, you guys might not think what Dany did to Astapor in Storm was that bad. Reread, The Windblown chapter. It shows how fucked up Astapor is now thanks to her.

That was due to leaving the three she did in charge. She should have set up better leadership.

[Caggo Corpsekiller]

You cant become a conquerer without getting a little blood on your hands...

Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought Nobly, Rhaegar fought honorably, and Rhaegar died

[Sansa_Stark]

That was due to leaving the three she did in charge. She should have set up better leadership.

It was still her fault in many ways.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

We don't know how Braavos will feel about her, actually. In a previous war in the disputed lands, Braavos appeared on the side of Aegon I, who flew out with his dragon. I'm agnostic on this, but we do know of a case where a dragon and Braavos made common cause.

And yes, by the slaves-- it's the oppressed classes who see Dany as a hero. I wouldn't shrug that off, though. The smallfolk of Westeros are both oppressed and increasingly restless. She might end up making them love her.

True, but it was Braavos that fought that war in the first place. Together with a lot more partners. Aegon was a latecomer. And Aegon most importantly kept his promises.

The problem with the "oppressed classes" in Westeros is that they are not the same "oppressed classes" as the slaves in Essos. And Dany can't offer them anything. Freeing them? Not possible, they are already free. Better lives? Can't deliver. Furthermore, the Faith and the common laws have a strong influence on the smallfolk and we know their stance on incest-spawn, breaking treaties, attacking one's host under their "roof", attacking envoys and inconsistent judgement. The situations are hardly comparable and I fully expect that to be the cause for the biggest reality shock in the entire series.