jon stark I Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Robert ordered the death of children... He is no saint... Ned Stark has killed many a man, and Jon Snow is a half a wildling who would turn the realm over to raiders and rapers... Robb doomed his people just for a taste of some cunny. Ramsay and Tywin would torture the innocent... Dany would Torture slavers.. I see a big difference there. Ned killed man at WAR!!!!! Robb fought to save his father and his people from more injustice. Robert is no saint did you get that from my post. If you think who helps people (wildlings) against frost demons then you really should read again.Slavers might not kill WWs will kill.Jon gathered men by saving them also he didn't leave them to mass murder or diseases like some other person. Ramsay and Tywin aren't our problem.North only needs Starks again.And Old Starks were harsh people that is right but when did they roasted people with dragon fire?If Starks were that bad it wouldn't take for one or two lord to destroy that reputation.Starks aren't just loved they are adored by their people.You can make whatever change you want in South but if there is a Stark in WF then there is no need for anyone other. Dany tortured a wine sellers daughters infront of him to gain information they didn't have.Then she goes all "uppsssy my bad I am a little girl after all hihihihi"She destroys whatever she touches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caggo Corpsekiller Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Janos Slynt had the measure of them! Lord Slynt was a godly man, Seven save him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan the Man Baratheon Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 We are both well aware of what you are talking about. But what Massey said does not imply Stannis had innocents tortured. I agree. Would it be so surprising? Suggs is scum. So? Stannis is not. Stannis gelds rapists and do you think he will let an innocent torturer guy walk away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caggo Corpsekiller Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Robert is no saint did you get that from my post.No, cant say that I read your post... to which post are you referring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterbumps! Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 not that the eternal gyre about who tortures whom isn't fascinating, but can someone articulate why it's important? I'm not clear why the torture olympics matters in the big picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drunkard Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Lord Slynt was a godly man, Seven save him. With many a friend at court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Stannis references Suggs and his unique skillset: "Must I?" The king shrugged. "If you say so. You are a man of learning, after all. I had a maester on Dragonstone who was almost a father to me. I have great respect for your order and its vows. Ser Clayton does not share my feelings, though. He learned all he knows in the wynds of Flea Bottom. Were I to put you in his charge, he might strangle you with your own chain or scoop your eye out with a spoon.""Only the one, Your Grace," volunteered the balding knight, him of the winged pig. "I'd leave t'other.""How many eyes does a maester need to read a letter?" asked Stannis. "One should suffice, I'd think. I would not wish to leave you unable to fulfill your duties to your lord. Roose Bolton's men may well be on their way to attack us even now, however, so you must understand if I skimp on certain courtesies. I will ask you once again. What was in the message you sent to Winterfell?" Proof torture is on Dragonstone: “On Dragonstone he would gamble with the torturers and lend them a hand in the questioning of prisoners, especially if the prisoner were a young woman.” Now if a prisoner is in, well, prison... what is the torture for? This isn't a "innocent until proven guilty" world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caggo Corpsekiller Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Dany tortured a wine sellers daughters infront of him to gain information they didn't have.Then she goes all "uppsssy my bad I am a little girl after all hihihihi"She destroys whatever she touches.I never said Dany was Baelor the Blessed. Sometimes there are necessary evils when fighting for the greater good.. (freeing the slaves) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kungsmurfen Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 not that the eternal gyre about who tortures whom isn't fascinating, but can someone articulate why it's important? I'm not clear why the torture olympics matters in the big picture. I'm not sure but I think the argument is that it dosn't matter that Dany tortured people because others did it too.. I got here in the middle of things though so I might be mistaken :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 I don't know about Qhorin Halfhand's example. I'll reread it sometime later. But we know little about Sugg's torturing people/women on Dragonstone. For all we know, they could have been PROVEN baby/child murderers and slavers.. Wait, don't Dany fans cheer at MMD's burning because she was a baby killer? Don't Dany fans cheer for the 163 crucifixions? ??? For all we know the wine seller is guilty. He and his daughters were in on the crime. The 163 crucified were guilty. What's your point? ETA: Knowing Suggs likes to torture women says a lot. A whole lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caggo Corpsekiller Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 With many a friend at court. Aye, and most loyal to His Grace King Joffrey, that noble child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 not that the eternal gyre about who tortures whom isn't fascinating, but can someone articulate why it's important? I'm not clear why the torture olympics matters in the big picture.It's really not I guess, Its just the implications that Dany can only be compared to the likes of Ramsay, and Tywin are tiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 I never said Dany was Baelor the Blessed. Sometimes there are necessary evils when fighting for the greater good.. (freeing the slaves) They were children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Stannis references Suggs and his unique skillset: Proof torture is on Dragonstone: Now if a prisoner is in, well, prison... what is the torture for? This isn't a "innocent until proven guilty" world. We don't know. Its not really specific info. Its entirely possible those who were put in and questioned actually were proven guilty. Its not really fair to say we tortured innocents or not definitively. For all we know the wine seller is guilty. He and his daughters were in on the crime. The 163 crucified were guilty. What's your point? Not going to debate the guilt or the 163, but the Wineseller and his family being guilty was not proven. She changed her mind on whether they should be questioned "sweetly" to "sharply" based on her anger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 They were children.We don't know their age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuma Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Are those deaths not for the greater good?? Dany will try to free all the slaves... and yes many people will die because of this... but does that mean it is not a worthy cause? Not all slaves want freedom. Some were happy enough with current status. like one outside Mereen aka "I wouldn't give a dragon queen my collar if she offered to suck my cock for it". And i doubt that he alone thinks that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caggo Corpsekiller Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 They were children. Children are not always innocent... Arya is a child, far from innocent. Joffrey (Seven save him), far from innocent.. Aegon I was barely more than a child when his Dragons roasted the noble knights of Westeros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Astapor? I approve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Not all slaves want freedom. Some were happy enough with current status. like one outside Mereen aka "I wouldn't give a dragon queen my collar if she offered to suck my cock for it". And i doubt that he alone thinks that.And she let the ones who wanted to be sold back into slavery do so. I would think the majority would rather be free though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caggo Corpsekiller Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Not all slaves want freedom. Some were happy enough with current status. like one outside Mereen aka "I wouldn't give a dragon queen my collar if she offered to suck my cock for it". And i doubt that he alone thinks that. the slaves have been brainwashed into thinking that slavery is a good arrangement for them... Sort of like a Stockholm syndrome.. Give me liberty or give me death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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