khal cium Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Ned - no hand from north and no reason for Cersei to plan Bob's death hence no plot from Stannis/Renly to claim IT.Dany/Viserys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor de la Tormenta Posted February 2, 2014 Author Share Posted February 2, 2014 Here is mine (pretty disgusting)Stannis, LF and Illyrio.The twincest is never known. Daenerys never gets the eggs and all her arch is ruined as well as faegons.Main problems still are Ned or Renly finding the twincest on their own, and Varys having a back up plan for the Targ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs. Tyrion Lannister Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 With regard to offfing Lannisters or Stannis (if twincest is your rationale), I actually think that could have been handled without a huge devastating war. In a streamlined manner, take Tywin, Cersei, Jaime, and the children into custody. Obviously DON'T WARN THEM in advance, just do it, then make your accusations. I guess you could argue for including Tyrion and Kevan as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor de la Tormenta Posted February 2, 2014 Author Share Posted February 2, 2014 Tywin's a pretty good hand, though. And I don't see any reason for him offing Robert. Cersei only did that to stop him from finding out about the incest. There's no impending doom without Ned there, so no reason to kill him. And since Tywin isn't trying to hide incest, he can rule the kingdom while Robert does whatever he does. And we see in book 3 how Tywin reins Cersei in.Stannis had already left KL with Jon Arryn dead. I'm not sure what move he would've made here. He didn't tell Robert about the incest and didn't make a move until after he was dead, so :dunno:Stannis gathered the fleet, hired sellswords and closed DS while Bob was alive. He definitly had an agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sordelor Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Based on nothing but preventing war: DanyCerseiLF Don't think I say them out of dislike for these characters tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebra of KotOR Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 How do they die? Are we choseing how? Can it be murder we can blame someone else for? Can it be just murder say Robert killing Cersei in a drunkin rage? Is it an accident I choose like Joffry tripping and impaling himself on the Iron Throne? Or is it an uniexplanable divine act such as Tywin dropping dead as he drinks his morning tea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnief Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Getting rid of Dany could prevent war, but I fear that we may need those dragons against the Others, so Dany stays... Accordingly; LF-(funny how we ALL agree on him,)Joffrey-having a sneering psychopath next in line for the IT was always going to lead to trouble no matter what.Varys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gertrude Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 I think it's crazy that people are saying kill Cat. She was only reacting to a situation created by others. If you kill Cersei, then there is no twincest for Bran to see and Cat stays home and LF can't lie to her and tra la la. CerseiLittlefingerDanaerysNot even counting the fact that Dany hasn't landed in Westeros yet, she has quite a trail of bodies in Essos. Littlefinger is horrible, yes, but taking him out would be a preventative measure against possible future horribleness as his most damaging action has already been done (directing Lysa's actions).Yeah, fuck it, he stays on the list. He just always makes things worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnysd Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Ned, Stannis and Illyrio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 LF - Lysa wouldn't kill Jon Arryn and then blame the Lannisters, thus meaning Jon can properly inform Robert of the twincest before Cersei can kill him.Vary - Without Varys it is unlikely Ilyrio teams up Viserys and Dany with Drogo thus preventing Dany entire war rampage in Essos.Tywin - Without Tywin the war in the Riverlands wouldn't have occurred, because the other Lannisters would have likely resorted to diplomatic means to resolve the conflict after Tyrion's arrest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Getting rid of Dany could prevent war, but I fear that we may need those dragons against the Others, so Dany stays... Accordingly; LF-(funny how we ALL agree on him,) Joffrey-having a sneering psychopath next in line for the IT was always going to lead to trouble no matter what. Varys. I agree, we have to keep Dany, but, you have got to kill off Cersei!! Joff, it's hard to say, depends on if we think Bob will find out he's a bastard, if he does, then Bob will take care of Joff, if not, then yes, Joff would be my number 3. I love Varys, can't kill him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Winters Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 CerseiLittle FingerVarys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Lady Stark Martell Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Littlefinger, Illyrio, Robert. Without LF, since AGOT Page 1, there would be no letter. I take it Jon Arryn would still be dead, but without the letter no one would suspect the Lannisters anyway so basically, there wouldn't be Starks vs Lannisters Without Illyrio, Dany wouldn't have her dragons. After Viserys and Drogo's death, she would most likely become a part of the Dosh khaleen. Without Robert, Ned wouldn't be asked to be the Hand, so the Lannisters wouldn't be in Winterfell; Bran wouldn't catch Cersei and Jaime in the middle of the act, there would be no attempt to end Bran's life, Cat wouldn't imprison Tyrion, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lointain Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Stannis - Nobody alive would know the secret of the Golden Twins.Ned - Nobody alive would make dangerous questions about the children of Bob.Ilyrio - Viserys would turn really into a beggar and/or sell Dany to slavery/brothel to survive a little longer in Essos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faydra Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Otto Hightower (killed before becoming hand of the king) - Alicent will never exist, nor will the first dance Daemon Blackfyre (killed before Aegon's death) - Without the good-at-everything bastard brother receiving the ancestral sword, we'll have no Blackfyre Rebellions. Varys, provided he is a blackfyre supporter, would either not exist/ not try to decimate the power of the current dynasty (because he has no reason to do so, in the given scenario). Illyrio won't be conspiring to get fAegon on the throne, no second dance. Wow, poor Daemon. Had he known. Bittersteel - in case Aegon decided to pass Blackfyre to him I find it unlikely really Lord Denys Darklyn Provided the first two points are true, the dragons still exist. He's not likely to start the defiance. Robert Baratheon (killed before his betrothal) Better not, Lyanna will be engaged to someone else (killed moments before Rhaegar and Lyanna meeting) - no Robert's Rebellion I wonder if the War of the 5 Kings would still occur while the Targs are in power. I've just seen that I have to choose the names from the begining of AGoT (before marching north). Here they are (in the exact order): LittlefingerStannis Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor de la Tormenta Posted February 2, 2014 Author Share Posted February 2, 2014 Littlefinger, Illyrio, Robert. Without LF, since AGOT Page 1, there would be no letter. I take it Jon Arryn would still be dead, but without the letter no one would suspect the Lannisters anyway so basically, there wouldn't be Starks vs Lannisters Without Illyrio, Dany wouldn't have her dragons. After Viserys and Drogo's death, she would most likely become a part of the Dosh khaleen. Without Robert, Ned wouldn't be asked to be the Hand, so the Lannisters wouldn't be in Winterfell; Bran wouldn't catch Cersei and Jaime in the middle of the act, there would be no attempt to end Bran's life, Cat wouldn't imprison Tyrion, etc.Well tought, but Stannis is still making a move when bob dies, and probably Renly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dire-Lion Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 I would go with Littlefinger, Loras, and Illyrio. Littlefinger and and Illyrio are both schemers who cause or indirectly cause most of the wars. Killing Loras makes it unlikely for Renly to join the Tyrells leaving the Baratheons strong enough to deal with any remaining threats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User inactive Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 CerseiIllyrioVarys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roose The Weddingcrasher Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Is LF really that important? The Gold Cloaks could be bribed by someone else, and Joffrey possibly still decides to execute Ned. The Tyrells could be brought in some other way. I think that it can't be certainly determined how uniquely essential he was to fuel the conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor de la Tormenta Posted February 2, 2014 Author Share Posted February 2, 2014 Is LF really that important? The Gold Cloaks could be bribed by someone else, and Joffrey possibly still decides to execute Ned. The Tyrells could be brought in some other way.He making Lysa send the letter, and the dagger story is what makes Cat kidnapp Tyron and Tywin attacking the River Lands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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