Small Questions v 10023

[Dolan Baratheon]

Who was ned stark's mother?

Does sansa know joff was a bastard?

[Knight Of Winter]

Who was ned stark's mother?

Does sansa know joff was a bastard?

1. we don't know, although there are some theories

2. by now she has surely heard the rumors.

[mindchap]

Just to throw it in, but the app (though I can't check it for you, but I don't really doubt my source) seems to confirm that Varys warned Jorah about the poisoner. So he did send out Roberts order, yet made sure the plan would fail as well. (I always believed that this was what happened, but it's nice to see it confirmed somewhere).

Illyrio admits that he believed Dany would have died amongst the Dothraki. But to have her killed this soon would have been a big blow to their plans. Should Dany indeed have died from the poison, Drogo might not have invaded the Seven Kingdoms with Viserys (he night even have been killed by the poison himself!) And there would have been no (or not enough) chaos, which meant Aegons invasion wouldn't stand a chance.

From the App:

When Varys provides news to the king of Dany's marriage, he seems to side with the majority of the small council in arranging for her assassination. But later, he secretly informs Illyrio of the king's decision, and Illyrio in turn passes the information to Ser Jorah in time to save Dany from the first attempt on her life.

[Jon Weirgaryen]

@mindchap: yes, there's the one thing about sending her off as expendable, and the other about saving her from the poisoner Varys sends out himself.

Time passes between sending Dany off, then the meeting of our friends Varys and Illyrio in person ("Delay", "Make haste", "Delay") and actually sending the poisoner and the warning much later.

That may be part of the plan to delay.

[The Crow's Third Eye]

1. we don't know, although there are some theories

2. by now she has surely heard the rumors.

2. She was in the Throne Room when I think the Florent knight started shouting about Joffery's bastardy. She has definitely heard rumours, but oddly never seems to think about it.

My question is, as far as Dany and co. are concerned, do they still believe Joffery to be on the throne?

[mindchap]

@mindchap: yes, there's the one thing about sending her off as expendable, and the other about saving her from the poisoner Varys sends out himself.

Time passes between sending Dany off, then the meeting of our friends Varys and Illyrio in person ("Delay", "Make haste", "Delay") and actually sending the poisoner and the warning much later.

That may be part of the plan to delay.

I actually wondered if maybe she was a "back burner" plan for Illyrio at one time, since he does send the baddest knight in the West to look after her(after ascertaining that she is not nuts). Or maybe they intended them to die at first but later changed their minds(perhaps with the hatching of our little scaly friends) and decided she would make a nice match for Aegon. But I haven't managed to read everything on the app yet so it's mostly speculation at this point. :)

[TheSamsa]

I've started re-reading the whole sSoIaF series, and are still in the very beginning. But yet I stumbled upon the mentioning of "Green Men" from the Isle of Faces.

Is it know what exactly they are? Are they Children of the Forest? Or simple humans, or a order of both? Looked in the wiki but didn't find much information.

They seem to have quite some influence: Addam Velaryon is said to sought their counsel, and of course the mystery knight of the big Harrenhal Tourney.

[Allyria Winterborn]

Illyrio admits that he believed Dany would have died amongst the Dothraki. But to have her killed this soon would have been a big blow to their plans. Should Dany indeed have died from the poison, Drogo might not have invaded the Seven Kingdoms with Viserys (he night even have been killed by the poison himself!) And there would have been no (or not enough) chaos, which meant Aegons invasion wouldn't stand a chance.

When does he admit that? Do you have a quote?

2. She was in the Throne Room when I think the Florent knight started shouting about Joffery's bastardy. She has definitely heard rumours, but oddly never seems to think about it.

My question is, as far as Dany and co. are concerned, do they still believe Joffery to be on the throne?

I doubt it. It's been a pretty long while since Joff died, and news spread quickly. Even Tyrion has already made it to Meereen, and his trip has been full of obstacles, more-or-less-planned stops etc. Until the Yunkai blockaded the sea access to Meereen, surely some traders must have brought the news from Westeros.

[Jon Weirgaryen]

I actually wondered if maybe she was a "back burner" plan for Illyrio at one time, since he does send the baddest knight in the West to look after her(after ascertaining that she is not nuts). Or maybe they intended them to die at first but later changed their minds(perhaps with the hatching of our little scaly friends) and decided she would make a nice match for Aegon. But I haven't managed to read everything on the app yet so it's mostly speculation at this point. :)

Along those lines, yes. I think the "fate" of glorious Dragons Viserys and dragon-egg Daenerys was meant to look good in the history books and Illyrio's reason to treat them reasonably well and send them off with the Dothraki. And to repeat the word, trade with Khal Drogo's Dothraki world would go well with such a prized royal bride, ...maybe.

I don't think they were sent out to die, just to be off scene from Westeros and look like a menace on the horizon, a storybook monster horde rallying in the far east. That's what they become in Westeros news.

Later, to our friends' surprise, Dany becomes actually helpful to them with dragons and fame.

[mindchap]

I've started re-reading the whole sSoIaF series, and are still in the very beginning. But yet I stumbled upon the mentioning of "Green Men" from the Isle of Faces.

Is it know what exactly they are? Are they Children of the Forest? Or simple humans, or a order of both? Looked in the wiki but didn't find much information.

They seem to have quite some influence: Addam Velaryon is said to sought their counsel, and of course the mystery knight of the big Harrenhal Tourney.

That's one of those topics that tend to go missing around here, presumably they will be an important part at some point, but they are oddly absent from the SSMs. Maybe it's one of those things GRRM wants left in the dark. I know that's not much help but if you try searching for them you'll see what I mean. :)

[mindchap]

Along those lines, yes. I think the "fate" of glorious Dragons Viserys and dragon-egg Daenerys was meant to look good in the history books and Illyrio's reason to treat them reasonably well and send them off with the Dothraki. And to repeat the word, trade with Khal Drogo's Dothraki world would go well with such a prized royal bride, ...maybe.

I don't think they were sent out to die, just to be off scene from Westeros and look like a menace on the horizon, a storybook monster horde rallying in the far east. That's what they become in Westeros news.

Later, to our friends' surprise, Dany becomes actually helpful to them with dragons and fame.

You're right it was pretty much win win either way, even if they had died fairly early in the trip the info was coming from Varys so he could have let the story ride until it didn't suit him anymore.

[Jon Weirgaryen]

I stumbled upon the mentioning of "Green Men" from the Isle of Faces.

Is it know what exactly they are? Are they Children of the Forest? Or simple humans, or a order of both? Looked in the wiki but didn't find much information.

They seem to have quite some influence: Addam Velaryon is said to sought their counsel, and of course the mystery knight of the big Harrenhal Tourney.

We don't know yet. They are meant to be mysterous. Meera Reed mentions her father Howland as The Crannogman, and that there is a story about his stay on the Isle of Faces and his meeting the Green Men and learning from them. Basically our lgm.

The Knight of the Laughing Tree is not the guy who went to the Isle of Faces. When you reread the story in ASoS 24 Bran II you may note that Meera distinguishes The Crannogman and The Knight of the Laughing Tree and at least to me that is enough information to understand they are not the same person. The first is only Howland, and the mystery knight, you know, is a character of our central mystery of the books.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

From the App:

Thank you. So it appears that the info Jorah receives comes from the letter he mentions to Dany. I wonder if there were 2 letters, with one explicitly stating who the poisoner would be, and one meant to "warn" Viserys.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

When does he admit that? Do you have a quote?

I doubt it. It's been a pretty long while since Joff died, and news spread quickly. Even Tyrion has already made it to Meereen, and his trip has been full of obstacles, more-or-less-planned stops etc. Until the Yunkai blockaded the sea access to Meereen, surely some traders must have brought the news from Westeros.

From Dance:

If truth be told, I did not think Daenerys would survive for long amongst the horselords.

[mindchap]

Thank you. So it appears that the info Jorah receives comes from the letter he mentions to Dany. I wonder if there were 2 letters, with one explicitly stating who the poisoner would be, and one meant to "warn" Viserys.

Jorah tells her shortly after:

Doreah and Jhiqui helped Dany back to her feet. The poisoned wine was leaking from the

broken cask into the dirt. “How did you know?” she asked Ser Jorah, trembling. “How?”

“I did not know, Khaleesi, not until the man refused to drink, but once I read Magister Illyrio’s

letter, I feared.” His dark eyes swept over the faces of the strangers in the market. “Come. Best

not to talk of it here.”

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Jorah tells her shortly after:

Yes, Jorah says that :) but I'd it's he truth....

Jorah would be a fool to tell Dany that he was warned that the wineseller would try to sell her poison. He'd have to admit he was in contact with Varys, who works for King Robert.

Varys would not have wanted to take chances, I believe. So he'd have Illyrio warn Jorah exactly who he poisoner was. Otherwise, Hirsh might not have caught on, and Dany (and perhaps even Drogo) would have died.

[mindchap]

Yes, Jorah says that :) but I'd it's he truth....

Jorah would be a fool to tell Dany that he was warned that the wineseller would try to sell her poison. He'd have to admit he was in contact with Varys, who works for King Robert.

Varys would not have wanted to take chances, I believe. So he'd have Illyrio warn Jorah exactly who he poisoner was. Otherwise, Hirsh might not have caught on, and Dany (and perhaps even Drogo) would have died.

But Robert was offering a lordship as reward for their death so Varys couldn't have known every person who may have been trying to kill them. It isn't until Dany tells the wineseller who she is that he goes for the poisoned stuff, he could have just been someone who was after the reward.

[TheSamsa]

That's one of those topics that tend to go missing around here, presumably they will be an important part at some point, but they are oddly absent from the SSMs. Maybe it's one of those things GRRM wants left in the dark. I know that's not much help but if you try searching for them you'll see what I mean. :)

Yeah I am also reading the SSMs at the moment, and no single mentioning or questioning about the "Green Men". This did strike me as odd, as soon as I read the mentioning of them. And because they are distinctivly not named Children of the Forest I am inclined to believe there is much more about them as it seems.

We don't know yet. They are meant to be mysterous. Meera Reed mentions her father Howland as The Crannogman, and that there is a story about his stay on the Isle of Faces and his meeting the Green Men and learning from them. Basically our lgm.

The Knight of the Laughing Tree is not the guy who went to the Isle of Faces. When you reread the story in ASoS 24 Bran II you may note that Meera distinguishes The Crannogman and The Knight of the Laughing Tree and at least to me that is enough information to understand they are not the same person. The first is only Howland, and the mystery knight, you know, is a character of our central mystery of the books.

Oh yeah, of course you are right. I somehow tend to mix those two together, I am sorry!

[mindchap]

Yeah I am also reading the SSMs at the moment, and no single mentioning or questioning about the "Green Men". This did strike me as odd, as soon as I read the mentioning of them. And because they are distinctivly not named Children of the Forest I am inclined to believe there is much more about them as it seems.

Craster is another one of those topics that seems oddly absent.

[Don Roberto]

Is there any mention of House Toyne having been banished? Terrence Toyne was caught with Aegon's mistress, Myles Toyne was with the Golden Company and the only Toyne we hear of in recent-history Westeros was an outlaw, looks a classic exile narrative to me.