Ragnarok: this theory puts all other theories to shame

[Ser Creighton]

You know Martin famously collect silver-age comics, right? It's the comics that are the keys. We've unfortunately been barraged with Avenger movies lately, I don't think George saw that coming.

And lol. True.

Sure, he is also an avid reader of all sorts of books, and writes both books and comics, and tv shows, and edits and does all kinds of stuff like showing classic scifi movies at his private movie theater. Scifi probably sits higher on the pole for him than fantasy actually, then horror. He is also a gamer, and chess player, in fact he used too organize chess tournaments, I don't know much about him and video games but he was into some sort of board or RPG thing.

[Fool of a Book]

While I don't doubt Jaime and Bree have a minor connection to Sigurd and Brunhilde, this is where you have to separate exact parallels from the mythology, Martin doesn't do that. Gram and Bran clearly have similar roots and I would suggest that while Gram is a sword it is also a metaphor for Bran in many ways. You can also draw parallels to the Barnstokkr tree where Odin places Gram, or Odin who consistently assisted Sigurd, because of the death of Sigmund. Sigurd who learned to speak to birds and was given the gift of Prophecy. You also have the fact that Gram was broken and three times reforged, which is not all that different from the story of the forging of Lightbringer, or the fact that Bran himself had been broken.

Any direct parallel is a waste of time, most writers are not going to rip off a story unless they are writing a homage to it and clearly Martin isn't he just uses some, imagery, allusions, and metaphors, where you can draw some minor insight from them or clues. Outside of a Dream Jaime and Bree draw very little from the Volsunga Saga, she is a warrior and so is he, well that locks it down. The name Brienne can also be tied to St. Francis, you know a poor preacher that used to walk around preaching to the poor, bearfoot, and who loved animals, like dogs, and preached to sparrows. Martin mixes it up.

And Bran is also Fenrir, the bound wolf. Yes he mixes it up. Any direct parallel is warped, but not a waste of time, simply a mental exercise.

Brienne has many parallels with Brunhilde. I am not saying that is all she is.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Ragnarok is definitely an inspiration but not the only one. There are various aspects of Christian, Arthurian/Celtic and Greek mythology going on here too, not to mention good old English history. It's fun to pick out bits and pieces of these mythologies and see where they pop up in the story, and it's been done before (read: no one's mind is getting blown by mentioning Ragnarok; we're aware), but I'm very leery of pointing to any singular mythological tradition and saying that the story is definitely and primarily based on it.

[HMR]

This is the same author that has Jaime pinned for Azor Ahai because there was some ham in the background of a HBO scene, right?

LOL! I noticed that one too.

Unlike many crackpot theories on these forums, I actually really like this one, being a fan of mythology. I think some parts are very well thought out and the parallels drawn work.

Nevertheless, I highly doubt it's that simple. Martin would not just base the whole saga on something. Yes, he was inspired and influenced by many mythological and historical personas and events, but to simply take a story and put different skins on it, no, I'm not buying.

I suggest you read the other blog entries, if you have not already. I really like his idea of Bloodraven working with the Children and Others to bring down man kind and the whole "all men must die/serve" having a hidden connection to the children, that was probably my favourite part. Again, I'm not buying all of it, but there may well be some truth there.

[Fool of a Book]

Ragnarok is definitely an inspiration but not the only one. There are various aspects of Christian, Arthurian/Celtic and Greek mythology going on here too, not to mention good old English history. It's fun to pick out bits and pieces of these mythologies and see where they pop up in the story, and it's been done before (read: no one's mind is getting blown by mentioning Ragnarok; we're aware), but I'm very leery of pointing to any singular mythological tradition and saying that the story is definitely and primarily based on it.

And Icelandic, and Iranian, and Germanic, the list goes on. However, I do not doubt that GRRM's primary influuence was from the comic adaptations of these mythologies.

[Fool of a Book]

LOL! I noticed that one too.

Unlike many crackpot theories on these forums, I actually really like this one, being a fan of mythology. I think some parts are very well thought out and the parallels drawn work.

Nevertheless, I highly doubt it's that simple. Martin would not just base the whole saga on something. Yes, he was inspired and influenced by many mythological and historical personas and events, but to simply take a story and put different skins on it, no, I'm not buying.

I suggest you read the other blog entries, if you have not already. I really like his idea of Bloodraven working with the Children and Others to bring down man kind and the whole "all men must die/serve" having a hidden connection to the children, that was probably my favourite part. Again, I'm not buying all of it, but there may well be some truth there.

Yes, I also like the blog, but the author missed the mark about the ham, since Jaime has several other salt/smoke associations.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

And Icelandic, and Iranian, and Germanic, the list goes on. However, I do not doubt that GRRM's primary influuence was from the comic adaptations of these mythologies.

Actually, his primary influence appears to be the English Wars of the Roses, if you want to split hairs.

[Fool of a Book]

Actually, his primary influence appears to be the English Wars of the Roses, if you want to split hairs.

Partially. But if you want to split hairs, ask George what he prefers to read... silver-age comics or dry histories.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Partially. But if you want to split hairs, ask George what he prefers to read... silver-age comics or dry histories.

If you think of the Wars of the Roses as "dry history," you're reading it wrong.

ETA:

Westeros is probably closer to medieval Britain than anything else. Geographically, it occupies a somewhat similar position off a larger contintent, although Westeros is considerably larger and is, in fact, a continent itself, more like South America. And although I've drawn on many parts of history, the War of the Roses is probably the one my story is closest to.

http://www.empireonline.com/interviews/interview.asp?IID=1496

[Fool of a Book]

If you think of the Wars of the Roses as "dry history," you're reading it wrong.

If you're dismissing the comic book connection, you're reading GRRM wrong.

[Daendrew]

This gave me chills.

Winter Is Coming to make the Night Dark full of terrors so All Men [Can] Die.

The Children could not defeat the men with brawn, so this author posits that they are using brains; selective misinformation to sabotage humanity and take their revenge.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

If you're dismissing the comic book connection, you're reading GRRM wrong.

See my edit above.

I'm also guessing you're not terribly familiar with the Wars of the Roses or you wouldn't be nearly as skeptical about it. For one thing, you'd know better than to call it "dry history," and for another you'd see that the Targaryen/Baratheon conflict is a dead ringer for the Lancaster/York rivalry, not to mention other incidents lifted from British history like the Dance of the Dragons.

[Fool of a Book]

See my edit above.

I'm also guessing you're not terribly familiar with the Wars of the Roses or you wouldn't be nearly as skeptical about it. For one thing, you'd know better than to call it "dry history," and for another you'd see that the Targaryen/Baratheon conflict is a dead ringer for the Lancaster/York rivalry, not to mention other incidents lifted from British history like the Dance of the Dragons.

I appreciate your comment, which is not in dispute, but to put aside other influences is plainly wrong.

[Daendrew]

In Hollywood speak it is Ragnarok, meets War of The Roses, meets The Sopranos, with the wit of The West Wing and set in King Arthurs Middle Earth.

Now that I have offended pretty much everyone here, I can just about call it a night.

But the point of my original thread is that the other stories are sub-plots to the Ragnarok. Echoing Jeor Mormont, it matters not who sits on the Iron Throne when the undead come knocking on your door. The Ragnarok is the primary story, of which all the others are but part.

This is a song of ice and fire. A song is a compilation of multiple melodies and chords brought together that create a greater whole and convey a wider story.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

:shocked: Tommen ?

[Daendrew]

What is Ragnarök? It is, quite literally, the song of ice and fire.

But what is a song? Is a song a battle? Do notes fight one another for dominance, with no care or concern for the overall sound? No. That is discord. A song is harmony -- notes working together in unison.

And that is Ragnarök -- the forces of ice & fire uniting as one to attack the world of gods and men.

And that is key to understanding what's really going on in George R. R. Martin's epic fantasy series, A Song of Ice and Fire... The battle is not Dragons vs. White Walkers. It's Dragons & White Walkers vs. Mankind.

-Orignal link.

[Fool of a Book]

In Hollywood speak it is Ragnarok, meets War of The Roses, meets The Sopranos, with the wit of The West Wing and set in King Arthurs Middle Earth.

Now that I have offended pretty much everyone here, I can just about call it a night.

throw in some Aztec/Mayan mythology, Justice League, X-Men, Pele from Superboy, Mephisto, Faust, Dawn of the Dead too....

you're pretty much correct. lots of derivatives, although he says he hates tropes.

[moonmop]

I don't know why people try to find the end all be all theory on how the story is going to end based on one story or one piece of mythology.

Doing so ignores the fact that the author himself has told you on countless occasions that he takes bits and pieces from many things he has read and has interest in. Certainly, there are some things from the story of Ragnarok that have and will likely work their way into the ending, but there will be things from Hindu mythology and Celtic mythology as well, and historical events, and folk tales and on and on.

[Daendrew]

:shocked: Tommen ?

He is yet a child and Melissandre has said this war will last for years. We do not know him yet. The hero in Ragnarok also had cats. Not sure if they had beets though.

He is the Prince that was promised according to the theory, not Azor Ahai, the warrior. I am not sure I buy it though. But GRRM is one for shockers.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

I only sort of like this theory because it's a breath of fresh air from the usual Jon/Dany save the world and take the throne and becuase I like Norse mythology. Doesn't convince me though.