Lord Spark of House Spark Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 They... at the tower of joy two survived to ride away.. then Ned is with lyanna when They find him... who is they? I thought only Howland Reed was there. i am pretty sure THEY is a small question... Howland Reed and Jon maybe? After the Crannogman had picked him up from the fisherwoman. Is this the Vital piece of evidence that finally disproves R+L=J? Don't really think so, but it's safer to ask here than on the R=L=J thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Howland Reed and Jon maybe? After the Crannogman had picked him up from the fisherwoman. Is this the Vital piece of evidence that finally disproves R+L=J? Don't really think so, but it's safer to ask here than on the R=L=J thread It is hard for an infant to find somebody... especially when not carried... and Howland is taking Neds Hands...Dayne He could have not rode away but started tearing the tower down for graves... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubarey Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 "The George tells us in Game that hundreds of years ago--when dragons were on Dragonstone and then the rest of Westeros--the snow line was lower and presumably, the winters were colder and longer. Then he tells us in THK that since that time the summers got shorter and the winters got longer but Tyrion's winters suggest the opposite. So, does this mean that before the Conquest the winters were worse, then got better with dragons flying over Westeros, and then got worse but not as bad as before? " The longevity of seasons and their ferocity change in Westeros without much ryme or reason that can be easily descerned. Dunk talked about sumers getting shorter and winters longer but Bran who is 10 has never seen a winter. And the rebellion did not take place during winter so the preceeding Winter would have been relatively short. We know that there have ben long Winters that some of the living can recall. So trying to discern much of a meaningful pattern of season change is beyond the inhabitants power or knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindchap Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I'm not sure if this is a small question but if somebody could point me to a thread that'd be cool...Between Snow and Sky on the way up to the Eyrie, Mya tells Catelyn, "My mother says that hundreds of years ago, this was where the snow began," Mya told her. "It was always white above here, and the ice never melted." She shrugged. "I can't remember ever seeing snow this far down the mountain, but maybe it was that way once, in the olden times."But in The Hedge Knight, Dunk recalls Arlan telling him, "The summers have been shorter since the last dragon died, and the winters longer and crueler."What gives?Maybe she was referring to before the dragons came back to Westeros, and Arlan was referring to after the last one died. Like the dragons may actually affect weather opposite of what the Others do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roddy Darwin Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 The George tells us in Game that hundreds of years ago--when dragons were on Dragonstone and then the rest of Westeros--the snow line was lower and presumably, the winters were colder and longer. Then he tells us in THK that since that time the summers got shorter and the winters got longer but Tyrion's winters suggest the opposite. So, does this mean that before the Conquest the winters were worse, then got better with dragons flying over Westeros, and then got worse but not as bad as before?Or, and I'm sorry for suggesting this, but maybe Arlan's suggestion is just a case of him being an old man who thinks "back in the day" things weren't so bad?Some old people think the young are all drug addicts, but the differences in drug use based on generation is a highly debatable issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Or, and I'm sorry for suggesting this, but maybe Arlan's suggestion is just a case of him being an old man who thinks "back in the day" things weren't so bad?Some old people think the young are all drug addicts, but the differences in drug use based on generation is a highly debatable issue.But Arlan is just a figment of The George's imagination. What was the author trying to tell us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindchap Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 But Arlan is just a figment of The George's imagination. What was the author trying to tell us? There's no confirmation or anything but personally I think they affect the weather just like the Others. Dragons come back and suddenly fire mages can make ladders of fire in Qarth, Others come back and a family of children who are all wargs show up. Gotta be a connection somehow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Were the Royces the only house from the Mountain and Vale at the Han's Tourney? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gwynhyfvar Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Were the Royces the only house from the Mountain and Vale at the Han's Tourney? I believe so, unless you count Lothor Brune "Freerider from the Vale" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindchap Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 snip Does that map app that you have show Raventree? (You were right I can't find that thing anywhere) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FittleLinger Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I believe so, unless you count Lothor Brune "Freerider from the Vale" And Ser Hugh? But he doesn't really represent a house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gwynhyfvar Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Does that map app that you have show Raventree? (You were right I can't find that thing anywhere)Yes it does... http://imgur.com/wge3ifx:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindchap Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Yes it does...http://imgur.com/wge3ifx :)Thanks, maybe we'll get a complete map in the world book, at least one of Westeros would be nice. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 There's no confirmation or anything but personally I think they affect the weather just like the Others. Dragons come back and suddenly fire mages can make ladders of fire in Qarth, Others come back and a family of children who are all wargs show up. Gotta be a connection somehow... Dragons and the Others seem to be making a comeback at the same time. But yes i think it is one or the other that is giving magic back to the nonmagical world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roddy Darwin Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Yes it does... http://imgur.com/wge3ifx:)Is it ever confirmed in-book that Raventree Hall and Stone Hedge lie on different sides of the Red Fork? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gwynhyfvar Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Is it ever confirmed in-book that Raventree Hall and Stone Hedge lie on different sides of the Red Fork?No not specifically. Neither appears on the Lands of Ice and Fire map. Every speculative map placed them roughly in those positions and my guess is, that's based on textual hints. Stone Hedge is one of the places burned by Ser Gregor early in AGoT. I believe that campaign was conducted inside the arm of the Red Fork, which would place SH south of the river. When Brienne meets Jaime at Pennytree (several hours ride south of Raventree) we know she has recently been with the BwB, who are apparently on the west side of the Green Fork and within an afternoon's ride of Fairmarket, which would place them north of the Red Fork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roddy Darwin Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 No not specifically. Neither appears on the Lands of Ice and Fire map. Every speculative map placed them roughly in those positions and my guess is, that's based on textual hints. Stone Hedge is one of the places burned by Ser Gregor early in AGoT. I believe that campaign was conducted inside the arm of the Red Fork, which would place SH south of the river. When Brienne meets Jaime at Pennytree (several hours ride south of Raventree) we know she has recently been with the BwB, who are apparently on the west side of the Green Fork and within an afternoon's ride of Fairmarket, which would place them north of the Red Fork. Nice. Makes a lot of sense. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estheros Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 About this long winter, is there any chance Bran's birth ten years ago caused it to be this long?Do we know if he was born when summer started or later on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Howland Reed and Jon maybe? After the Crannogman had picked him up from the fisherwoman.Is this the Vital piece of evidence that finally disproves R+L=J? Don't really think so, but it's safer to ask here than on the R=L=J thread Catelyn Stark's notion of Robb being older than Jon is partly in the way of most viable timelines. It is definitely in the way of Jon Snow, son of Eddard and the fisherman's daughter Godric Borrell is professing to Davos in ADwD 9 Davos I:"At the dawn of Robert's Rebellion. The Mad King had sent to the Eyrie for Stark's head, but Jon Arryn sent him back defiance. Gulltown stayed loyal to the throne, though. To get home and call his banners, Stark had to cross the mountains to the Fingers and find a fisherman to carry him across the Bite. A storm caught them on the way. The fisherman drowned, but his daughter got Stark to the Sisters before the boat went down. They say he left her with a bag of silver and a bastard in her belly. Jon Snow, she named him, after Arryn. Let's say this happened 3 weeks after Jon Arryn called his banners, then that Jon Snow would have been born 43 weeks into the Robellion. At that time Catelyn and Ned have been married for nearly five months*, so it will take another 4 for Robb to be born.*) The time from Jon Arryn calling his banners until the Tully marriages contains more than one month for gathering troops and fighting the battles of Summerhall and Ashford castle and another month for the Tyrells to arrive at Storm's End to lay siege. (We know the Siege lasted for about a year give-or-take, and ended shortly after the battle of the Trident and the Sack of King's Landing. But more important now:)The 4 hosts of Robert, Eddard, Jon Arryn and Hoster Tully will have to move all the way to meet in Stoney Sept with the Targaryen/Jon Connington troops for the Battle of The Bells which wil take more than two months. Some of the survivors then meet at Riverrun 2 weeks later for the Tully marriages...If there is truth to the story, the White Harbor Jon Snow is not the one on the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 About this long winter, is there any chance Bran's birth ten years ago caused it to be this long?Do we know if he was born when summer started or later on? Later on. Arya was born in the same summer and she is older than Bran. ETA after I found the quote:"The hard cruel times," her father said. "We tasted them on the Trident, child, and when Bran fell. You were born in the long summer, sweet one, you've never known anything else, but now the winter is truly coming. Remember the sigil of our House, Arya."AGoT 22 Arya II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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