How much power will Littlefinger achieve in the series?

[Makenshi]

You think Robert rebelled because he was a drunk fool? Seriously?

As to answer the OP - I don't think LF wants to become the King of 7K. I think he likes being the Power behind the throne. I think he will want to gain control of the whole realm - but not in name - but instead controlling someone.

But I would not be surprised if he did go and claim the IT for himself.

No.He rebelled because he was afraid to go to King's Landing.

[Shadrich]

Well if he rebelled because he didn't want to go to KL to answer to Aerys's imaginable treason i think i understand.....

No.He rebelled because he was afraid to go to King's Landing.

Robert wasn't called to answer to Aerys, or afraid to go KL. Robert was sentenced to death by him.

[Makenshi]

Robert wasn't called to answer to Aerys, or afraid to go KL. Robert was sentenced to death by him.

No we have that form Catlyn's pov.....She says Aerys demanded from Jon Aryn to send Ned and Robert's heads to KL and Jon Aryn answered by rebelling.

It is very likely Aerys demanded that they be sent to KL to answer for treason.....and from rebel's pov many people saw this as death sentence.....which very likely could have been...but we will never know.....

[Winnief]

Steve's theory is that LF's endgame is to put a compliant puppet King and Queen on the IT, and then be Hand of the King, holding all the real power, as a way of finally demonstrating to everyone just how smart he is.

It sounds to me, like that could be what LF is aiming for...but I don't think he's going to get it.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

Steve's theory is that LF's endgame is to put a compliant puppet King and Queen on the IT, and then be Hand of the King, holding all the real power, as a way of finally demonstrating to everyone just how smart he is.

It sounds to me, like that could be what LF is aiming for...but I don't think he's going to get it.

I agree. I think that is his endgame preferably Sansa as his puppet queen, but he won't get far I am very much sure of this.

[Fat Mac]

No we have that form Catlyn's pov.....She says Aerys demanded from Jon Aryn to send Ned and Robert's heads to KL and Jon Aryn answered by rebelling.

It is very likely Aerys demanded that they be sent to KL to answer for treason.....and from rebel's pov many people saw this as death sentence.....which very likely could have been...but we will never know.....

Even if they were demanded to go to KL to answer for treason.... there was nothing treasonous to answer for. Robert and Ned had nothing to do with Brandon going to KL, and therefore weren't guilty of anything.

Either way, its hard to fault Robert for not wanting to be killed by a tyrant.

[Fire Eater]

He is smart enough to know he will never sit the IT, but I think hen would rather be the Kingmaker, the power behind the throne. I think he is currently at the height of his power as Lord of Harrenhal, Lord Paramount of the Riverlands and LP of the Vale.

[para]

Steve's theory is that LF's endgame is to put a compliant puppet King and Queen on the IT, and then be Hand of the King, holding all the real power, as a way of finally demonstrating to everyone just how smart he is.

It sounds to me, like that could be what LF is aiming for...but I don't think he's going to get it.

Why not? We readers are so focused on the Others as the Final Big Bad, as the ultimate and most important battle to be fought that we kind of ignore the fact that the Others' narrative is very likely to end with their defeat. (If they win, it means humanity's end - which would be a way too supernatural and apocalyptic end to really fit ASOIAF's style IMO.)

But it would be interesting that (once the supposedly Final Big Bad is defeated) human evil in the form of LF actually triumphs. It would certainly subvert a lot of tropes. The Others wouldn't be the final villain, the actual final villain (who has been there from the very beginning) wins - but since the apocalypse is averted, it isn't actually a defeatist, nihilistic bad ending.

And for some special evil-mirrorverse-Lord of the Ring-ness, GRRM could make Jon the puppet king. People always complain that Jon as king is such a cliche. Jon as Littlefinger's fingerpuppet would be actually an excellent subversion of 'the king in hiding.'

Add to this that Jon might be in need of a kingmaker to ever become one and that LF is an excellent match for some real kingmakers in history (has money, influence, an army (hypothetically right now) and endless ambition) and I am not entirely if one can say so categorically that LF will not be the actual winner of the Game of Thrones.

Didn't GRRM promise a bittersweet ending, one where the readers would know ASOIAF-Aragorn's tax policy? Doesn't LF as reigning Hand fit both descriptions?

[Van beyond The Wall]

I think LF has risen just about as high as he is gonna go. He has been acting much more boldly and openly recently. It almost feels as if he thinks he cant be brought back down at this point. Those political allies of his who helped him achieve much of his current position are either out of power, soon to be rendered impotent or dead. There are a few left in the standing who know just exactly how LF operates and what he is capable of.

LF has to keep Bronze Yohn in mind, who cant stand the man, and will be keeping a close eye on him. Sansa might still be capable of something LF least expects. Tyrion will be back in Westeros and who knows just where and how Varys will strike.

Littlefinger has a couple tricks left up his sleeve but he has reached the pinnacle of his power and the future isnt very bright, imo.

[Lord Thornhart]

As cool for two seconds as it would be if Littlefinger took the Iron Throne, I'm pretty sure governing over two kingdoms is as far as he's going to go. I think the next book will have his downfall at the hands of Little Cat.

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

Littlefinger will reach for one more rung up the ladder only for it to crush under his weight. He's been lucky up until this point but just like we saw with the Lannisters his luck will eventually run out. He's been so busy being lucky that he doesn't realize he's not the smartest man in the world. Brains only get you so far and luck always runs out. Prisons and Cemeteries are filled with smart men whose luck eventually ran out.

[Kiss of Fire 2]

LF is deadmeat....not sure how...many possibilities....I am hoping it is epic as his character deserves. I think he has gained all the power he is going to get, but the power he has is useless at this moment with regard to gaining the IT.

[VicsFieryHand]

"He would watch this realm burn, if for nothing more than he could be King of the ashes......"

[The Mother of The Others]

Much, and then also more. His last quarterly report didn't meet expectations, but that's because he's taking the time to get it right up in the northeast and doesn't want to rush an unfinished product to market. I bet when he turns the key on that operation it'll be a real doosy with realm-changing implications, .....whatever the frick he's doing.

[para]

Littlefinger will reach for one more rung up the ladder only for it to crush under his weight. He's been lucky up until this point but just like we saw with the Lannisters his luck will eventually run out. He's been so busy being lucky that he doesn't realize he's not the smartest man in the world. Brains only get you so far and luck always runs out. Prisons and Cemeteries are filled with smart men whose luck eventually ran out.

But LF is not merely merely smart and lucky. He is an unapologetic criminal mastermind with zero emotional attachments and no scruples. He would have never tried to save Arya from Ramsay, killed someone for a long-gotten away wife, walked the walk of a shame for a son, broke an betrothal over a seduction, kidnapped a high-ranking son of a lord over an assassination attempt, tried to freed any slaves out of humanitarian reasons, charged ahead on an invasion after an egging-on of his ego, broke the guest right openly out of hurt pride, killed a king to protect a daughter/granddaughter or city, pin all your hopes on a single untried player outside of your control, or tried to save an adultress and her children from the chopping block.

Basically, luck runs out of for the smart that are vulnerable. But if you cannot be goaded into making mistakes out of emotional or moral reasons or attachments, your luck can last a lot longer than it should. Especially if everyone else around you makes those, giving you new opportunities all the time. Because at the end, Yohn is just one man and can easily fall down a staircase or something if he becomes a problem. Meanwhile LF is still in favor with the Lannisters but can easily switch sides once other parties come knocking, especially with that Vale army he can keep promising like an eternal carrot.

[IRON BANK]

LF is an oppurtunist and nothing more. His plans revolve more around reaction or adjustment rather than A PARTICULAR cause. This means LF is always a step behind, if any part of one of his schemes fails he will be exposed and the house of cards he has built will come tumbling down around him. This will happen One big lie will be exposed and LF will crumble, THE FALL WILL BE EPIC.

[KingOfTheDirewolves]

I would love for LF to sit the throne, and in his glory moment, lean back, forgetting what the Iron Throne is made of.

[Kanye Westeros]

But LF is not merely merely smart and lucky. He is an unapologetic criminal mastermind with zero emotional attachments and no scruples. He would have never tried to save Arya from Ramsay, killed someone for a long-gotten away wife, walked the walk of a shame for a son, broke an betrothal over a seduction, kidnapped a high-ranking son of a lord over an assassination attempt, tried to freed any slaves out of humanitarian reasons, charged ahead on an invasion after an egging-on of his ego, broke the guest right openly out of hurt pride, killed a king to protect a daughter/granddaughter or city, pin all your hopes on a single untried player outside of your control, or tried to save an adultress and her children from the chopping block.

Basically, luck runs out of for the smart that are vulnerable. But if you cannot be goaded into making mistakes out of emotional or moral reasons or attachments, your luck can last a lot longer than it should. Especially if everyone else around you makes those, giving you new opportunities all the time. Because at the end, Yohn is just one man and can easily fall down a staircase or something if he becomes a problem. Meanwhile LF is still in favor with the Lannisters but can easily switch sides once other parties come knocking, especially with that Vale army he can keep promising like an eternal carrot.

Ya he had a lot of inherent advantages over other players for a long time including lack of significant family/emotional attachments to consider, less specific goal in creating chaos which allows him many more opportunities and options, and he was often way under the radar because of his social status,

One thing that has changed is his status. He has people(ie lords of the vale) who look at him as an intrusion and untrustworthy. As he's now pretty much the lord protector of 2 large areas at the moment, way more eyes are going to be on him and way more people are going to be trying to bring him down, especially as an "upjump". Relatively soon after arriving at the Eyrie the current person with control over the heir mysteriously died. Based on how the Vale lords initially received LF, I think they'll definitely keep tabs on the goings on there if more suspicious happenings occur, especially with heirs.

Additionally, the higher up you go up the power chain, the more of a bottleneck there is. There is only 1 king, 4 wardens, etc. I've always got the idea that LF's plan basically revolved around creating chaos to create opportunities to satisfy two needs:power and revenge. I think part of what drives his need for power is his thirst for revenge, but I think he also looks at the power as a way to keep score in what he almost looks at as a game which he seems to genuinely enjoy. So as there are less positions vertically on the ladder to strive for and the low hanging fruit horizontally is no longer, he's going to find far fewer opportunities in the future as his goals are going to get more specific. He doesn't seem like the type that would just be satisfied with the impressive results of what he's already done. Realistically if he continued playing he's either going to have to become way more patient which there isn't really time for in the books or way more brash and risky. With all of the extra eyes on him for being a target already based on his high status and the manner in which he got that status, I find it highly unlikely his luck won't run out.

On top of all that I think the story stresses more and more of LF's big emotional weakness, Catelyn. Based on the limited interactions and lack of LF pov it really seems he's transferred those feelings to Catelyn's daughter, Sansa. Definitely a strong vibe that this could be something that bites him in the ass later.

[Winnief]

Basically, luck runs out of for the smart that are vulnerable. But if you cannot be goaded into making mistakes out of emotional or moral reasons or attachments, your luck can last a lot longer than it should. Especially if everyone else around you makes those, giving you new opportunities all the time. Because at the end, Yohn is just one man and can easily fall down a staircase or something if he becomes a problem. Meanwhile LF is still in favor with the Lannisters but can easily switch sides once other parties come knocking, especially with that Vale army he can keep promising like an eternal carrot.

LF doesn't always make decisions based on sheer logic-his telling Cat and Ned, that he lost the dagger to Tyrion, was a classic case in point. He was taking a HUGE gamble there, because any checking on Ned's part-or even an accidental disclosure somehow, and LF would have been screwed. His gamble happened to pay off in that instance, but he can't keep beating the odds forever. Then his murder of Lysa, in front of Sansa was risky, constantly smooching a girl he's trying to pass off as his daughter is risky, etc. etc. Not to mention that in between Dany's dragons, Rickon's upcoming return, and most importantly, The Others, events are going to go in a direction that not even LF can spin to his benefit

One thing that has changed is his status. He has people(ie lords of the vale) who look at him as an intrusion and untrustworthy. As he's now pretty much the lord protector of 2 large areas at the moment, way more eyes are going to be on him and way more people are going to be trying to bring him down, especially as an "upjump". Relatively soon after arriving at the Eyrie the current person with control over the heir mysteriously died. Based on how the Vale lords initially received LF, I think they'll definitely keep tabs on the goings on there if more suspicious happenings occur, especially with heirs.

Additionally, the higher up you go up the power chain, the more of a bottleneck there is. There is only 1 king, 4 wardens, etc. I've always got the idea that LF's plan basically revolved around creating chaos to create opportunities to satisfy two needs:power and revenge. I think part of what drives his need for power is his thirst for revenge, but I think he also looks at the power as a way to keep score in what he almost looks at as a game which he seems to genuinely enjoy. So as there are less positions vertically on the ladder to strive for and the low hanging fruit horizontally is no longer, he's going to find far fewer opportunities in the future as his goals are going to get more specific. He doesn't seem like the type that would just be satisfied with the impressive results of what he's already done. Realistically if he continued playing he's either going to have to become way more patient which there isn't really time for in the books or way more brash and risky. With all of the extra eyes on him for being a target already based on his high status and the manner in which he got that status, I find it highly unlikely his luck won't run out.

On top of all that I think the story stresses more and more of LF's big emotional weakness, Catelyn. Based on the limited interactions and lack of LF pov it really seems he's transferred those feelings to Catelyn's daughter, Sansa. Definitely a strong vibe that this could be something that bites him in the ass later.

:agree: One reason he's gotten as far as he has, is that until now, people thought he was too lowborn to be too much of a threat, "Hence Tywin granting him Harrenhaal, because he didn't think the title would do Baelish much good," but now as its becoming clearer and clearer how lofty his goals truly are, "and will be especially apparent, when it gets out he's got," more people are going to be invested in taking him out. Varys for one, is never going to allow him to get to the top.

[Lord_Tyrell]

I think he'll gain control of the Vale, the Riverlands, and the North through Sansa, although they won't be as united as he's planned, and he'll be severely screwed once he finds out that Bran and Rickon are still alive, and when Jon rises from the dead with a claim over all of Westeros, not to mention the Others coming down from the Wall and Dany's arrival to Westeros (although I'm sure he's planning for the later at least in some way).