Will Dany ever return to Meereen? I think not...

[Lady Blizzardborn]

boojam, the Dothraki keep slaves, and thought it odd that she freed hers but as she was Khaleesi and their Khal said she could do what she wanted it wasn't questioned. They may not like the idea of no more slaves but on the other hand, with Drogon there all Dany has to do is say dracarys and the khalasar will probably fall in line with her philosophy.

[boojam]

boojam, the Dothraki keep slaves, and thought it odd that she freed hers but as she was Khaleesi and their Khal said she could do what she wanted it wasn't questioned. They may not like the idea of no more slaves but on the other hand, with Drogon there all Dany has to do is say dracarys and the khalasar will probably fall in line with her philosophy.

Like I said George has set up a unique situation.

I doubt in the whole history of Martian World there has been a Dothraki with a dragon, much less a Khaleesi with a dragon.

To the Dothraki that's a scenario they have never encountered.

[Amoracchius]

While I certainly agree that Dany's story is going to take a turn, I am convinced that she will go back to Meereen. It just doesn't seem possible that the Mother of Dragons would abandon two of her children.

[boojam]

While I certainly agree that Dany's story is going to take a turn, I am convinced that she will go back to Meereen. It just doesn't seem possible that the Mother of Dragons would abandon two of her children.

I think so too.

If any of them have a bad fate in store I think it will wait till novel 7.

(I wish the hell the show would name them! Viserion, Rhaegal and Drogon , jez!)

All this stuff about Dany returning to Meereen is colored by George almost always putting Tyrion near the 'action'.

Remember Tyrion wants so badly to meet a dragon, GRRM would not deny him that!

Plus, as always Tyrion has some pivot role to play, George likes that.

GRRM now two of his most prominent characters in the East, for the longest time it was really only Dany , yes yes, even counting a number of other important characters, but the East was Dany's story.

(Not to forget Arya, now.)

Bringing Dany, Tyrion and Arya together would , at least, unify three different arcs.

[Anarchosaurus Rex]

On the one hand, I don't want Dany to return to Meereen, because her story there is agonizingly boring and aggravating - quite a quagmire. On the other, I'd rather her stay in Meereen than travel to Westeros and burn a bunch of smallfolk just because their lords defied her demented daddy before she was even born.

[boojam]

On the one hand, I don't want Dany to return to Meereen, because her story there is agonizingly boring and aggravating - quite a quagmire. On the other, I'd rather her stay in Meereen than travel to Westeros and burn a bunch of smallfolk just because their lords defied her demented daddy before she was even born.

When the Others come there wont be any lords or small folk left to burn!

[Anarchosaurus Rex]

When the Others come there wont be any lords or small folk left to burn!

I agree that her dragons will be necessary to defeat the Others, just as Roosevelt and Churchill's alliance with the mass-murdering Stalin was necessary to defeat the Axis Powers.

[Jaehaerys Targaryen]

When the Others come there wont be any lords or small folk left to burn!

The Others will come and without the help of the Mother of the Dragons the current lord won't be able to eliminate the Others. If i'm right the Others have huge armies of "Icefolk", even the Night Watch won't be able to defend the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros from the Others. The Others have spans of years, to plan the destruction of the Seven Kingdoms.

[aFeastForDragons]

If you think the story in Mereen was slow what happens when Dany lands in Westeros in waist high snow. Her Dothraki army will freeze to death in a week. Not to mention how she will feed an army in a war torn country that is going to experience a famine once Winter really sets in.

Busy with work all this week but if someone made a thread about the "Logistics of moving an army during Winter" that would be a great topic to discuss.

[Budraven]

everyone has all this blind faith in Dany.. she'll be dead about 250 pages into TWOW is my guess

[Lady Blizzardborn]

everyone has all this blind faith in Dany.. she'll be dead about 250 pages into TWOW is my guess

Nah. She's been such a huge part of the series I don't think GRRM will kill her in the next to last book. I think she'll be in ADoS, even if she dies in the first chapter.

[Budraven]

i see where you're coming from with that... my only rebuttal is the fact that he's killed so many major characters in this series. king robert, ned, robb, tywin, jon snow for all we know, as well as stannis. the last two aren't confirmed yet, but the list goes on and on. perhaps they weren't as involved with the story as she is besides Snow and Stannis, but you get my point i think.

i just can't see her being the end-all leader at the end of the books, and like i said before i think there's a strong likelihood she'll be dead. i also believe she's starting to go crazy like the mad king (paranoia, weird visions etc) so i think she's going to make some very questionable decisions leading to her demise. but it's all an opinion so we'll just have to wait and see :dunno:

[Lady Blizzardborn]

i see where you're coming from with that... my only rebuttal is the fact that he's killed so many major characters in this series. king robert, ned, robb, tywin, jon snow for all we know, as well as stannis. the last two aren't confirmed yet, but the list goes on and on. perhaps they weren't as involved with the story as she is besides Snow and Stannis, but you get my point i think.

i just can't see her being the end-all leader at the end of the books, and like i said before i think there's a strong likelihood she'll be dead. i also believe she's starting to go crazy like the mad king (paranoia, weird visions etc) so i think she's going to make some very questionable decisions leading to her demise. but it's all an opinion so we'll just have to wait and see :dunno:

I do see your point, and I think if she's the AAR character she absolutely will die. Not sure about her going crazy but it is a 50/50 chance and would be really entertaining. It's even possible that the action that will end the battle with the Others is something that only a crazy person would volunteer for, and that would tie all of it together nicely. Certainly it would confirm to the prophecy that TPwwP had to come from Aerys and Rhaella's line...must have the crazy. :wideeyed:

[Jaehaerys Targaryen]

I do see your point, and I think if she's the AAR character she absolutely will die. Not sure about her going crazy but it is a 50/50 chance and would be really entertaining. It's even possible that the action that will end the battle with the Others is something that only a crazy person would volunteer for, and that would tie all of it together nicely. Certainly it would confirm to the prophecy that TPwwP had to come from Aerys and Rhaella's line...must have the crazy. :wideeyed:

Yes? If so, then Jon who probably is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna should also be a bit of mad, don't you think so? He is also from the line of Aerys and Rhaella and has 50 percent of the Stark blood in him. So why not? He should also be 50% mad, if all the conjectures are true, he can also be the Azor Ahai reborn or the Prince who was Promised.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Yes? If so, then Jon who probably is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna should also be a bit of mad, don't you think so? He is also from the line of Aerys and Rhaella and has 50 percent of the Stark blood in him. So why not? He should also be 50% mad, if all the conjectures are true, he can also be the Azor Ahai reborn or the Prince who was Promised.

It doesn't work that way. Paraphrasing but: "When a Targaryen is born the gods flip a coin to decide whether or not this one will have the madness." You either have it or you don't. There are no half-mad Targs. GRRM wrote it that way.

From a scientific standpoint, the Targ madness is genetic, but not every Targ gets it. It seems to be a double recessive, which the child would have to inherit from both parents. Even parents with the disorder may not pass it on (coin-flip on passing on the healthy versus abnormal gene). Bringing in an outside line (Stark) increases the possibility of madness-free offspring. If Jon is half Targaryen he's far less likely to have inherited the psycho genes than Daenerys whose parents were brother and sister and thus had the same genetic mix to contribute. Dany still may not have gotten those genes, but the probability (at 50%) is much higher for her than for any of Rhaegar's children.

Yes, Jon could be AAR. He too is a leading contender and I have no problem with that idea. Also it would be interesting if he DID go mad. I just don't see it happening. He's shown no real unsteadiness in the mental health department. Just a tendency to be melancholy, and that seems to be more his natural temperament than anything else. Makes him rather Rhaegar-like really.

[Skinchanging Sweetrobin]

It doesn't work that way. Paraphrasing but: "When a Targaryen is born the gods flip a coin to decide whether or not this one will have the madness." You either have it or you don't. There are no half-mad Targs. GRRM wrote it that way.

Both Viserys and Dany seem a little crazy to me. Not fully crazy, but somewhat.

[Jaehaerys Targaryen]

Both Viserys and Dany seem a little crazy to me. Not fully crazy, but somewhat.

Viserys Targaryen the third was mad like his father, i think that it is mentioned, that he favored the madness of his royal Father Aerys II Targaryen. As for Daenerys, i think she is not completely mad, there are some hints of madness, that can come up eventually in the las two books, if she survives. But i think, that these hints of her upcoming madness come due to her unstable psychological situation. For instance, she has lost a beloved husband, a child and she has exiled her bear as she names him, for treason. These are some reasons for her madness, but they are explainable. In comparison to the other Targaryen Scions, who had the madness of their Blood, Daenerys is justified. To me she seems very logical so far and i can't point to some evidence, that she will definitely go mad.

[Skinchanging Sweetrobin]

While it's true that Barristan says there was always something off about Viserys, Viserys actually never does anything insane. Yes, he's a jerk to Dany and he drunkenly threatens to cut her fetus out, but this is only after he had been pushed to the limits. All of his actions have logical motives and once you consider his difficult life, they make sense.

Dany, on the other hand, falls in love with a rapist, murderer Khal who she can't even speak with. She then coldly and unemotionally watches her brother, the man who raised her, murdered.

Then, she burns herself alive.

That puts her in the same category as all of her crazy ancestors that tried to awaken dragons by burning themselves alive. The only difference is that she succeeded.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

I agree with Jeaherys Targaryen about Viserys. That guy was absolutely beginning to manifest the typical Targ madness. He hadn't descended fully into it but he was on the way down. No, his actions are not logical. You do not threaten a woman whose husband is the most noted savage of the era. Viserys was not drunk for everything he did wrong. We know from Illyrio that Viserys planned to rape his sister the night before her wedding. We know from his ability to keep himself and his sister alive all that time that he is not stupid. But these are not smart actions so if he's not stupid, then he's more than likely crazy.

You're going to fault Daenerys for falling in love with her husband (who was kind and gentle with her), and for letting her jerk brother who was abusive to her her whole life get killed? As to the burning alive, she was trying to die because she was at the lowest point in her life and saw no future. Not indicative of a fully healthy mental state but not the same as full-out insanity of Targaryen proportions. None of these make her crazy, particularly in a medieval society, and a world where there are things like dragons and manticores. They could certainly be precursors but there is not enough evidence of the traditional Targ madness to say for certain that she's going to have it.

The madness itself does progress over time, but you either are going to get it or you are not. Viserys was going to, no question. He was offed before he fully descended into utter insanity.

[Skinchanging Sweetrobin]

I agree with Jeaherys Targaryen about Viserys. That guy was absolutely beginning to manifest the typical Targ madness. He hadn't descended fully into it but he was on the way down. No, his actions are not logical. You do not threaten a woman whose husband is the most noted savage of the era. Viserys was not drunk for everything he did wrong. We know from Illyrio that Viserys planned to rape his sister the night before her wedding. We know from his ability to keep himself and his sister alive all that time that he is not stupid. But these are not smart actions so if he's not stupid, then he's more than likely crazy.

You're going to fault Daenerys for falling in love with her husband (who was kind and gentle with her), and for letting her jerk brother who was abusive to her her whole life get killed? As to the burning alive, she was trying to die because she was at the lowest point in her life and saw no future. Not indicative of a fully healthy mental state but not the same as full-out insanity of Targaryen proportions. None of these make her crazy, particularly in a medieval society, and a world where there are things like dragons and manticores. They could certainly be precursors but there is not enough evidence of the traditional Targ madness to say for certain that she's going to have it.

The madness itself does progress over time, but you either are going to get it or you are not. Viserys was going to, no question. He was offed before he fully descended into utter insanity.

I'll grant you that if what Illyrio said was true, Viserys was crazy, but we don't know that. From everything we see, he was just a jerk pushed to the edge. His final threat was beyond boneheaded, but he was drunk, desperate and suicidal.

On Dany, you have to remember that this is her brother, her only family, who raised her, provided for her and educated her. She watches him die a horrid death, unmoved. Who would do that? Who could do that? I can't think a human on earth who would be capable of watching that.

And you seem to have a double standard with Dany's insanity. "As to the burning alive, she was trying to die because she was at the lowest point in her life and saw no future." Wait a minute, wasn't Viserys death also the lowest point of his life where he saw no future?

I get in, Dany is the protagonist and Viserys isn't. But, when you really examine their actions, it is Dany that is more crazy than Viserys.

And don't get me started on Khal Drogo. He's a rapist, a murderer and a slaver. He enjoys watching death and torture which means he has the same joys and fetishes as Joffery.