Small Questions v 10025

[HexMachina]

Re: sample chapters - sribd has the Theon sample chapter available. It wss only released in a later version of Dance iirc

RT: Oops, my mistake. I thought all of that was known stuff not theories. My mistake :)

Eta: What do you mean Mindchap?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

What is Sansa's position of power? With Edmure and Lysa dead and Cat kind if dead is she Lady of Riverrun? And with Bran and Rickon dead is she Lady of the North?

Sorry about any wrong titles its 2.36am right now

Well, it's all about inheritance, really. Before the wars (so before Ned died, and Hoster died, and castles were given away etc., the lines of inheritance for Winterfell and Riverrun were this (IIRC):

Winterfell: Ned - Robb - Bran - Rickon - Sansa - Arya.

Riverrun: Hoster - Edmure - any sons Edmure might have gotten - any daughters Edmure might have gotten - Catelyn - Robb - Bran - Rickon - Lysa - Sweetrobin - Sansa - Arya - Blackfish

Out of all these people, Ned, Robb, Catelyn and Lysa are dead, and Rickon, Bran and Arya are believed dead. Edmure is now taken captive, and LF might expect him not to survive for much longer, and Sweetrobin is sickly, and might not be around much longer either.

With Sansa as the rightful heir to the North (according to the Iron Throne, and not the will Robb made, which is supposed to legitimize Jon Snow), Sansa would indeed be the key to the North.

With Edmure captured by Lannisters, and his heirs in Frey/Lannister hands, and with the Blackfish missing, there is no one left with Tully blood except Sansa (who's "missing") and Sweetrobin (whom almost every reader suspects will die rather soon). That means that, once Sweetrobin dies, Sansa is the only Tully left, and she's before Brynden in the inheritance as well. With the likelyness that Edmure and his child will be killed as hostages during an upcomming war against the Riverlands, that makes Sansa the key to both the North and the Riverlands.

And here comes the trick. With Sweetrobin dead, Harry the Heir becomes the Lord of the Vale. LF schemes to marry Sansa to him, meaning that any child she'll have by Harry will be able to inherit Winterfell, Riverrun and the Eyrie. The Lords of the North and Riverlands will want to follow their former liege, and not the lieges the IT has now placed over them (Emmon Frey for Riverrun with Petyr Baelish as overlord of the Riverlands, and Roose Bolton as overlord of the North, with Ramsay Bolton as Lord of Winterfell). If that's the case, Sansa will become the person all those people could follow.

where is this Theon sample chapter from TWOW?

i checked my copy of ADWD again and the last part is the epilouge where Kevan dies.

there's no sample chapter for the next book unlike with the first 4 books

halp

I believe that depends on where you live and when you've bought your book (or, better said, which year the book you have has been printed).

In the US, the aDwD versions contained no sample chapter, IIRC, while for example in europe Theon was the sample chapter in Dance. Both Theon I and Arianne II have been put on GRRMs website after a while (Arianne was never a sample chapter in any book). The US, with the paperback release of Dance so very recently ago, received Barristan I as a sample chapter (the other countries don't have this one, or perhaps if you buy a new paperback it's in there; I wouldn't really know, my paperback is from 2012 and contains Theon I). The Tyrion I that is becoming available (is available?) can be read on the official app only.

[Jeor Fookin Mormont]

I believe that depends on where you live and when you've bought your book (or, better said, which year the book you have has been printed).

In the US, the aDwD versions contained no sample chapter, IIRC, while for example in europe Theon was the sample chapter in Dance. Both Theon I and Arianne II have been put on GRRMs website after a while (Arianne was never a sample chapter in any book). The US, with the paperback release of Dance so very recently ago, received Barristan I as a sample chapter (the other countries don't have this one, or perhaps if you buy a new paperback it's in there; I wouldn't really know, my paperback is from 2012 and contains Theon I). The Tyrion I that is becoming available (is available?) can be read on the official app only.

thank you my lady

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Re: sample chapters - sribd has the Theon sample chapter available. It wss only released in a later version of Dance iirc

RT: Oops, my mistake. I thought all of that was known stuff not theories. My mistake :)

Eta: What do you mean Mindchap?

No problem! :)

I do wonder about the "two drops" of dragons blood. That suggests that the secret father was also a Targaryen, but looking at the family tree, during Elaena's lifetime after her release from the Maidenvault, there were only Alyn Velaryon (who did not live long enough to be around during Elaena's third marriage), her uncle Viserys II, her cousins Aegon VI and Aemon the Dragonknight, Daeron II (who was a few years younger than Elaena), and Baelor Breakspear, Aerys I, Rhaegel and Maekar. And also the bastards of Aegon IV, of course. From all of these people, Aegon IV seems of course most likely, especially since we know that he had a son by cousin Daena (Elaena's sister).

From the description GRRM provided of Elaena, it sounds like Elaena wanted to do everything Daena did (she dressed the same, they both had known bastards), so perhaps having an affair with Aegon IV sounded like fun to Elaena? I don't like the idea though, and I'm hoping that it will turn out it was actually Alyn (who, through his possible father Laenor would have some dragonblood of his own).

[Jon Weirgaryen]

Only quoting the last lines of

Tyrion mentions that descendants of Ossifer would have two drops of Targaryen blood, suggesting that the actual father of the child was another Targaryen.

and this

The dog started barking at him and it gave him away.

If that's how it happend and not how a trap was set...

The dog then became an inspiration for...

The Tyrion I that is becoming available (is available?) can be read on the official app only.

Ladies, you write amazingly informative full-bodied and well-written answers in almost no time after the questions were asked. You are doing great work here. (And before I could send this bit of @Rhaenys_Targaryen has just written another one, oh my!)

[mindchap]

Re: sample chapters - sribd has the Theon sample chapter available. It wss only released in a later version of Dance iirc

RT: Oops, my mistake. I thought all of that was known stuff not theories. My mistake :)

Eta: What do you mean Mindchap?

It was probably just something in reference to it being cut from someone's site, because now I don't see any mention of it being scrapped, sorry, that's what happens when you read too much, things start running together. :)

edt: Was from this site not his though.

[Jon Weirgaryen]

@mindchap:

What do you mean Mindchap?

That would be some big piece of news, can you try to find the trace to it?

:ninja: 'd:

It was probably just something in reference to it being cut from someone's site, because now I don't see any mention of it being scrapped, sorry, that's what happens when you read too much, things start running together. :)

ok! Never mind.

[Jon Weirgaryen]

It was probably just something in reference to it being cut from someone's site, because now I don't see any mention of it being scrapped, sorry, that's what happens when you read too much, things start running together. :)

The chapter's disappearance certainly adds to its value and the making of mysteries about it :-)

[mindchap]

The chapter's disappearance certainly adds to its value and the making of mysteries about it :-)

I have it pdf-ed either way so I'm not losing it. :)

[HexMachina]

Just remembered, Scribd also has the Victarion sample that GRRM read at some point. That, along with Theon and a couple of summaries, are all under the same document. I might also add that tPatQ is availabke on scribd. I dont know how legal that is though

[Jon Weirgaryen]

I have it pdf-ed either way so I'm not losing it. :)

among other things. But plain text is best for keyword searches :-)

eta: yuck, I am nobbly nobilty now. Is there a way to get my knighthood back?

[mindchap]

among other things. But plain text is best for keyword searches :-)

I make mine, so they are all set up for searches, I even have the ebooks dissected by character to make them easier to find character specific quotes. I have a lot of free time, a lot. :D

[Jon Weirgaryen]

Just remembered, Scribd also has the Victarion sample that GRRM read at some point. That, along with Theon and a couple of summaries, are all under the same document. I might also add that tPatQ is availabke on scribd. I dont know how legal that is though

Hmm if you look long and hard enough for large blocks of the text you will be astonished what you will be able to find on Russian fan sites and E-reader sites.

[Jon Weirgaryen]

I make mine, so they are all set up for searches, I even have the ebooks dissected by character to make them easier to find character specific quotes. I have a lot of free time, a lot. :D

I am getting envious. You do backups, right?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

among other things. But plain text is best for keyword searches :-)

eta: yuck, I am nobbly nobilty now. Is there a way to get my knighthood back?

You can become a knight again by becoming a Small Council member first (not that it sounds logic, but alright then :P :) ).

I have it pdf-ed either way so I'm not losing it. :)

Good to know I'm not the only one doing that :P

Does anyone know if the Tyrion chapter is already available on app? And if there's a way to read it without having the app...?

[mindchap]

I am getting envious. You do backups, right?

Oh yeah, I've got the original ebooks(or at least the ones I originally got) and paperbacks of everything. I actually have two copies of some because to start with I got some from a used bookstore that weren't in great shape and when they released that box set of the paperbacks I bought it just to have some that are in good shape. The D&Es anthologies I bought used online, they're the only ones I don't have "new" copies of though.

Does anyone know if the Tyrion chapter is already available on app? And if there's a way to read it without having the app...?

It hasn't updated on mine yet, though I haven't checked it today gimme a sec.

edt:Nope no update yet.

[Jon Weirgaryen]

I guess the only things I haven't bought yet are Dotrice-on-CD (too costly, cheapest on the German version of Audible.de), the app (not allowed outside US) and The Hedge Night as an audiobook (not allowed for sale/to buy in Germany, not even via audible.com or .co.uk). I bought all the books new, except for Dreamsongs II which I got from the US Army on a junmble sale :-). But they all look very used by now... Please don't tell me how much I spent on all that :-)

[mindchap]

I guess the only things I haven't bought yet are Dotrice-on-CD (too costly, cheapest on the German version of Audible.de), the app (not allowed outside US) and The Hedge Night as an audiobook (not allowed for sale/to buy in Germany, not even via audible.com or .co.uk). I bought all the books new, except for Dreamsongs II which I got from the US Army on a junmble sale :-). But they all look very used by now... Please don't tell me how much I spent on all that :-)

But they're all worth every penny, to me anyway.

[Jon Weirgaryen]

But they're all worth every penny, to me anyway.

Doubtlessly. I was disappointed of ACoK at first read (but certainly eager to learn how the story went on) and later of TPaTQ but that is of a felt flatting out of the narrative after the very compact and intricate narrative of AGoT before that. It came back with ASoS. Now in the re-reading ACoK is not bad at all and TPaTQ is gaining a bit. Anyway, gotta think of a small question, we have been hijacking the thread...

I seem to be the only one who is very worried for the Littlefingersguard being comprised of at least one, probably two and maybe three Sansa-Headhunters, in case Morgarth is Elder Brother of the Quiet Isle.

1. Ser Shadrich of the Shady Glen, the Mad Mouse (++Grrm just for that one's name) has confided to Brienne he is bounty hunting for Sansa's head

Ser Byron the Beautiful may be another headhunter, at least I am suspecting him, given near no information about him in the text and being around Shadrich

Ser Morgarth the Merry, if he is the Elder Brother from Quiet Ilse, having heard Sandor's confessions, he might play some maybe not so detrimental role, but you never know

I have read all kinds of Sans/Littlefinger/Eyrie related stuff but these three and their motives and possibilities seem to be ignored. Mentioning them myself seems to get ignored, too... I see them all as options to be turned (if not their heads...) by Sansa and all by them self as Littlefingerbane. A pointer to a discussion on this would be enough.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Doubtlessly. I was disappointed of ACoK at first read (but certainly eager to learn how the story went on) and later of TPaTQ but that is of a felt flatting out of the narrative after the very compact and intricate narrative of AGoT before that. It came back with ASoS. Now in the re-reading ACoK is not bad at all and TPaTQ is gaining a bit. Anyway, gotta think of a small question, we have been hijacking the thread...

I seem to be the only one who is very worried for the Littlefingersguard being comprised of at least one, probably two and maybe three Sansa-Headhunters, in case Morgarth is Elder Brother of the Quiet Isle.

1. Ser Shadrich of the Shady Glen, the Mad Mouse (++Grrm just for that one's name) has confided to Brienne he is bounty hunting for Sansa's head

Ser Byron the Beautiful may be another headhunter, at least I am suspecting him, given near no information about him in the text and being around Shadrich

Ser Morgarth the Merry, if he is the Elder Brother from Quiet Ilse, having heard Sandor's confessions, he might play some maybe not so detrimental role, but you never know

I have read all kinds of Sans/Littlefinger/Eyrie related stuff but these three and their motives and possibilities seem to be ignored. Mentioning them myself seems to get ignored, too... I see them all as options to be turned (if not their heads...) by Sansa and all by them self as Littlefingerbane. A pointer to a discussion on this would be enough.

How could a confession of Sandor lead to Sansa? Sandor only knows where Arya was last seen, and hasn't known about Sansa's whereabouts ever since the Blackwater.