Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 In a few cases (Jon Arryn, Galbart Glover), we have the heir to a lord or master being his brother's son, even though his brother is still alive and, it would seem, in good terms with him.It's safe to assume that is because of an understanding between the two brothers, right? With the younger one agreeing to abdicate in favor of his son? About the Glovers, the appendix of Clash lists Robett's son as the heir as well. It could be that because Galbart is unwed, and does not have any children, that he wrote his will to make his nephew the heir to Deepwood Motte, with Robett possibly as the castellan. It has to be something like this, since otherwise, Robett by rights would have been the heir of Galbart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Not when read in context of the whole chapter, imo. I wrote a bit about it here. (eta- the relevant part is about halfway down ;) )Very nice. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gwynhyfvar Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 About the Glovers, the appendix of Clash lists Robett's son as the heir as well. It could be that because Galbart is unwed, and does not have any children, that he wrote his will to make his nephew the heir to Deepwood Motte, with Robett possibly as the castellan. It has to be something like this, since otherwise, Robett by rights would have been the heir of Galbart. Hey Rhaenys-- how would feel about updating the wiki with that information? Without books handy last night I had to rely on my memory (good for text, but I haven't memorized every appendix, lol) and the wiki. No surprise, it failed us :( Very nice. Thank you. You're welcome! And thank you :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Hey Rhaenys-- how would feel about updating the wiki with that information? Without books handy last night I had to rely on my memory (good for text, but I haven't memorized every appendix, lol) and the wiki. No surprise, it failed us :( I fixed that. The fact that Robetts son is Galbart's heir, and not Robett himself, is stated on Robetts page now as well. Funily enough, on Gawen's own wiki page, it was Gawen who was named heir to Deepwood Motte... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 To continue on fixing the wiki... The wiki page of Luthor Tyrell says that he is the son of Leo Tyrell (the Lord Tyrell we seen in D&E, IIRC). Is there any textual evidence for that? Because I haven't been able to find any, an looking at the timelines, Leo could very well be Luthor's grandfather, not necessarily his father... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 And to fall back on the Glover business :) The appendixes of Clash and Storm list Robetts son Gawen as heir, Feast and Dance list Robett himself as heir to Deepwood Motte, though Gawen remains alive. It's likely that there's been a mistake made there.The information has been updated to the wiki pages :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gwynhyfvar Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 And to fall back on the Glover business :) The appendixes of Clash and Storm list Robetts son Gawen as heir, Feast and Dance list Robett himself as heir to Deepwood Motte, though Gawen remains alive. It's likely that there's been a mistake made there. The information has been updated to the wiki pages :) Interesting. Possibly something GRRM clarified as he went along? The RPG book predates both Feast and Dance, if I'm reading the SSM correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Interesting. Possibly something GRRM clarified as he went along? The RPG book predates both Feast and Dance, if I'm reading the SSM correctly. One RPG is from 2005, the other from 2010. I'm not sure in which one the information was found... I'll look again tomorrow :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leftwich Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 And to fall back on the Glover business :) The appendixes of Clash and Storm list Robetts son Gawen as heir, Feast and Dance list Robett himself as heir to Deepwood Motte, though Gawen remains alive. It's likely that there's been a mistake made there. The information has been updated to the wiki pages :) Could the variations be some sort of interpretation of Robett being a prisoner or being MIA at various points in the story? Isn't Robett captured then released, then captured possibly being MIA at some point? Or is that thinking about it too much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Could the variations be some sort of interpretation of Robett being a prisoner or being MIA at various points in the story? Isn't Robett captured then released, then captured possibly being MIA at some point? Or is that thinking about it too much? Could be, but it would still be strange. Becomming a captive does not suddenly make you no longer the heir to something. And I doubt that someone had the time to make decree's about Robett becomming the heir again after having been released as a hostage, because Galbart is missing with Maege Mormont right not, isn't he? Also, Robett isn't a captive during most of Clash... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brynden Bloodraven Rivers Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 To continue on fixing the wiki... The wiki page of Luthor Tyrell says that he is the son of Leo Tyrell (the Lord Tyrell we seen in D&E, IIRC). Is there any textual evidence for that? Because I haven't been able to find any, an looking at the timelines, Leo could very well be Luthor's grandfather, not necessarily his father... Considering Mace being the same generation of Robert and Rhaegar, Luthor would be the generation of Aerys and Stafford. In this case, for Leo to be Luthor's father, he would be the generation of Jaehaerys, one younger than Egg. I think Leo is Luthor's great-grandfather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gwynhyfvar Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 MUSH tree has Leo b. 158, making him around 50 during D&E, if that's to be trusted (it was updated post tpatq) Certainly possible he fathered Luthor late in life, and Luthor was also a bit older when Mace was born, but overall I agree with Rhaenys that grandfather seems more likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nittanian Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 The wiki page for Bethany Bolton (nee Ryswell), the second wife of Roose, states she died in 298. Does anyone know of a source for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind84 Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Will Jalabhar Xho ever reclaim the Summer Islands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Will Jalabhar Xho ever reclaim the Summer Islands? I saw this discussed somewhere - the consensus was that in the text no one shows any interest in the Summer Islands... meaning no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Will Jalabhar Xho ever reclaim the Summer Islands? Seeing as how he seems to have no men to retake his seat on the Summer Islands, and has been at KL for quite some time, I'd say that there's a small chance. Cersei mentions Robert Always told him "next year" when he came to ask for an army to retake his seat, suggesting that Xho arrived at KL several years before the books start. Without any money, he has little hope for an army, or his former lands should prove resourceful in the future, that might make someone crazy enough to care. Until such a time, it seems rather unlikely that he'll ever reclaim anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 The wiki page for Bethany Bolton (nee Ryswell), the second wife of Roose, states she died in 298. Does anyone know of a source for that? Haven't been able to find it yet. Searched for "fever" "second wife" "Domeric" "a year ago" "half a year" and "two years ago" but haven't been able to find anything about when she died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Engrossed with the Boltons... The wiki doesn't know Roose Bolton's age, it seems the text doesn't know it either. Roose may have been a counsillor to Robert at the time of the Battle of the Trident, at least he meant to have Ser Barristan killed... In Reek III he says:If she pops out sons the way she pops in tarts, the Dreadfort will soon be overrun with Boltons. Ramsay will kill them all, of course. That's for the best. I will not live long enough to see new sons to manhood, and boy lords are the bane of any House. Walda will grieve to see them die, though. Does he think of his own age? Or his possible violent demise in a few years? The latter doesn't make much sense, it must be due to age. Or have I just missed something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gwynhyfvar Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Haven't been able to find it yet. Searched for "fever" "second wife" "Domeric" "a year ago" "half a year" and "two years ago" but haven't been able to find anything about when she died. She died after Domeric, so I'm pretty sure the 298 is surmised from that-- it's possible Roose mentioned it in passing in Clash or Barbrey in Dance, but I can't find it atm. Anyways, Domeric died two years before the harvest feast, so 297. Here is Lady Hornwood mentioning Ramsay and Domeric in Clash at the HF: "He lived with his mother until two years past, when Domeric died..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 She died after Domeric, so I'm pretty sure the 298 is surmised from that-- it's possible Roose mentioned it in passing in Clash or Barbrey in Dance, but I can't find it atm. Anyways, Domeric died two years before the harvest feast, so 297. Here is Lady Hornwood mentioning Ramsay and Domeric in Clash at the HF: "He lived with his mother until two years past, when Domeric died..." Yes, that Domeric died in 297 AC I could find, but where is it stated that Bethany died after Domeric? I missed that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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