Why do some dislike Sansa ?

[Winter's Knight]

Because she's a boring, shallow, pathetic, entitled, self-righteous, cruel, naive, rash, horny, idiot.

Leave out cruel (really?) and you've just described Robb.

[Queen Alienor]

Liking and/or disliking a character is highly subjective. Actions can be viewed in different lights, and one of the best things in ASOIAF is that the author lets you do decide which people you like. Everybody has flaws, nobody is the perfect white knight just like most bad guys have good sides. It's not shoved down your throat which characters you're supposed to root for.

However, I do get irritated when people critizise Sansa for not taking a sword and escaping KL Ser Barristan style. Or when they say she is cruel. Both accusations are just ridiculous.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

[Queen Sansa Stark]

And from what I get of this thread is that some of you have crazy prejudice vs anyone not liking Sansa, writing them off as sexists, insecure and/or of dubious intellect. :bs:

First of all I don't write off all those who dislike Sansa as sexists. If you dislike her because she is boring then big deal. However if you bring up that she owed tyrion sex, heavenly compare her to Arya and consider her to be inferior to her then chances are big I will call you a sexist.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

She obviously lacks the strength to be any kind of physical threat.

But she really hasn't shown any capacity to be dangerous with her mind, either, despite being given a basic aprenticeship by Littlefinger, one of the most devious minds in Westeros, and having spent significant time Tyrion (who I'd consider to be another). Even amongst other females, she appears woefully out of her depth... Cersei, Olenna, and Margery all have the capacity to be dangerous in some way, and are all women Sansa should have had enough time with to learn -something- from.

I have been reading with an attitude of what is the point of posting in this thread. The way people start jeering the moment sexism is raised. And complain that us feminists are being silly, seeing sexism everywhere. Well here above is a perfect example of everyday sexism, the kind of sexism that is so subtle and ingrained that the person saying it doesn't even realise they are being sexist, and would no doubt be up in arms at being called sexist.

She lacks physical strength, so can't be a physical threat, ergo her story is boring. So women who do not emulate traditional male roles are boring?

But the best is yet to come. See the bold, italic, and underlined phrase. Even amongst other females. Just let that sink in a minute. the poster is saying that she lacks physical (masculine) traits and that she lacks the mental capacity to be dangerous,despite having been around two males whom the poster deems the most devious minds in Westeros. and even amongst females. Who by that phrase are being insinuated to be naturally less mentally capable of deviousness. And that is where the person I've quoted shows this level of almost unconscious sexism. Its implying that women are mentally inferior in some way. And people wonder why we call sexism.

[purrl1]

Who would you rather hang out with, someone who will sit there and knit, or someone who will go exploring with you or have an adventure or whatever? Sansa was boring, and a cry baby, I am not about to bring up quotes because as I said in my first sentence it was every sentence she spoke that paints her in a negative light. But if there are girls who acted the way Sansa did when they grew up, obviously they will like Sansa.

This is a perfect example of the kind of sexism many of us see among certain Sansa haters.

There are readers who only value female characters who take on traditionally masculine behaviors and roles. Any who are more traditionally feminine are deemed of lesser worth.

Growing up, I was a mix of Arya and Sansa. Like Arya, I wanted to play with swords and bows and climb trees with the boys. Like Sansa, I loved singing and playing instruments and reading. Like Sansa, I did well in school, and tried to please my parents and teachers. As a girl, I would have enjoyed being friends with both Stark sisters--tea parties in the Godswood with Sansa, and riding horses in the Wolfswood with Arya.

And as a grown woman who knits but also likes adventures, I say phooey on you for your scornful attitude. Yes, you are a sexist, because you regard anything "girly" as being "stupid". If you simply said that you don't enjoy such pastimes, and find reading about them tedious, that wouldn't be sexist. Instead, you treat them as inherently boring, and inferior, and that anyone who enjoys them is equally stupid and boring and inferior. That is why your statements are objectively sexist.

[Rickeen Stark]

I find her one of the stongest people in the series; and that is why I like her. It is not thrust in your face, it is delicately planted and developed. Well developed may I add! It may just be me, but character devlopment is an amazing thing to see and you can clearly see it with Sansa. She did not start out perfect, hell, no one does. But she is -real-. Her emotions, her thoughts, her ideas and her way of dealing with things are realistic. She is no bad ass assassin or knight, she is a beautiful girl in a world ruled by cruel and sadistic people. From Cersei to Joff. That being said, she evolves; she adapts. She survives; and for that, she is heroic in that sense. I like her for the same reason I like Jaime. Now, comparing these two may not seem normal, but hey, I can see their similarities. Jaime believed in knighthood; so did Sansa. They both have witnessed the horrible truth and, we will see how Sansa turns out. I don't want her like Jaime, but I can see how their paths may start similar.

If you don't like her because she's boring, that is your opinion and you are fully welcome to it. I do not believe everyone is sexist for disliking her; but, some will be. Those same people are ignorant and most likely believe a female should play a certain role. They hate Sansa for being feminine, they hate Brienne for being 'manly'. Make up your mind!

I dislike Ned more, but Sean Bean....

[Woman of War]

I have been reading with an attitude of what is the point of posting in this thread. The way people start jeering the moment sexism is raised. And complain that us feminists are being silly, seeing sexism everywhere. Well here above is a perfect example of everyday sexism, the kind of sexism that is so subtle and ingrained that the person saying it doesn't even realise they are being sexist, and would no doubt be up in arms at being called sexist.

...

Please, Weirwood, do not make the mistake to see it as being sexist or "antifeminist" if people like Sansa less.

I for example have very valid AND feminist reasons to be less intrigued by the idea that Sansa is seen as paragon of feminist development in these books. I am no less a feminist for it, we simply have different political convictions while both seeing ourselves as feminist. I do not see any reason that - as feminist - i should defend every female character. Actually female literary characters should be entitled to be not better, not more clever or more competent than male protagonists, they are part of the books with all their flaws, it is their equal right to be as boring or as interesting as male characters, we are talking books here. Martin has written several strong female chaacters and one, Sansa, is less so, actually she may be quite typical for her world. Which does not mean that she is less strongly written, actually her chapters are great literature and make me relate more to her than I would with a less competent writer.

It is NOT antifeminist to be bored by Sansa, some are, unbelievable to me, even bored by Dany or Cat. Sansa is not real. And I am for sure not untouched by the suffering of a young girl in RL. She deserves all my help even if she were not the most interesting child.

Here we talk books - there we talk RL. We should know the difference before going after posters with different opinions.

And, Purrl1, a woman, or a man come to that, who loves to knit and does lots of interesting things in life, would never have the lack of self confidence it takes to be offended by being called boring for knitting. They would simply laugh and shake it off.

I am good at knitting and I am proud if someone likes my design and not touchy at all. Because I know that I am in the middle of life in so many ways, I do not knit "Instead".

Apart from that there are great fashion designers, male and female, whose creations are based on knitting. And you can just as well waste your time with mindlessly repairing cars, come to that.

[Jojosh]

There's a big disconnect between treating some of the kids as kids in the fandom. Sansa is by all rights a child and allowed to be bratty and naive without being hated for it. My problem with her had nothing to do with her being a girl. She was quite honestly just not that nice a person.

Most people identify Cersei as being the evil queen well imo if sansa didn't go through that emotional and physical conga line I'd imagine she'd become someone quite like her. Sansa valued(and to some degree still does) things that just aren't really practical.

There is a small need to juxtapose her development with arya or jon. GRRM had deconstructed their own issues and laid it out for them early on. With Sansa she seems to need to learn the same thing over and over. Then we come back to the fact that sansa is a child and maybe you are weighing your expectations of a child to the same level of the adult characters which isn't exactly fair.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

Please se, Weirwood, do not make the mistake to see it as being sexist or "antifeminist" if people like Sansa less.

I for example have very valid AND feminist reasons to be less intrigued by the idea that Sansa is seen as paragon of feminist development in these books. I am no less a feminist for it, we simply have different political convictions while both seeing ourselves as feminist. I do not see any reason that - as feminist - i should defend every female character. Actually female literary characters should be entitled to be not better, not more clever or more competent than male protagonists, they are part of the books with all their flaws, it is their equal right to be as boring or as interesting as male characters, we are talking books here. Martin has written several strong female chaacters and one, Sansa, is less so, actually she may be quite typical for her world. Which does not mean that she is less strongly written, actually her chapters are great literature and make me relate more to her than I would with a less competent writer.

It is NOT antifeminist to be bored by Sansa, some are, unbelievable to me, even bored by Dany or Cat. Sansa is not real. And I am for sure not untouched by the suffering of a young girl in RL. She deserves all my help even if she were not the most interesting child.

Here we talk books - there we talk RL. We should know the difference before going after posters with different opinions.

Have you not even read the comments on this thread? We Sansa fans don't care if you don't Sansa because she is boring. We just don't. In fact in my opinion that is actually one of the few valid reasons to dislike her as it is not shrouded in sexism. However what we don't like is holding Sansa on a certain level of scrutiny that is pretty hypocrite.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

Personally I find it hilarious and deeply ironic that people condemn Sansa for seeing archetypes instead of people, but at the same time do the same with her. I mean when you really think about it Sansa is literally the reader in A Game of Thrones.

[Lord Joker Of FunLand]

This is a perfect example of the kind of sexism many of us see among certain Sansa haters.

There are readers who only value female characters who take on traditionally masculine behaviors and roles. Any who are more traditionally feminine are deemed of lesser worth.

Growing up, I was a mix of Arya and Sansa. Like Arya, I wanted to play with swords and bows and climb trees with the boys. Like Sansa, I loved singing and playing instruments and reading. Like Sansa, I did well in school, and tried to please my parents and teachers. As a girl, I would have enjoyed being friends with both Stark sisters--tea parties in the Godswood with Sansa, and riding horses in the Wolfswood with Arya.

And as a grown woman who knits but also likes adventures, I say phooey on you for your scornful attitude. Yes, you are a sexist, because you regard anything "girly" as being "stupid". If you simply said that you don't enjoy such pastimes, and find reading about them tedious, that wouldn't be sexist. Instead, you treat them as inherently boring, and inferior, and that anyone who enjoys them is equally stupid and boring and inferior. That is why your statements are objectively sexist.

Or....he finds those things boring, so he ends up hating her chapters not because he's sexist, but because he can't connect with a character like Sansa.

Never knew that finding girly things boring and not relating to it, is sexist. lol

[Chatty Duelist]

Leave out cruel (really?) and you've just described Robb.

Tortures the wineseller's daughter in front of him and crucifies 163 people. Crucifies.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

Or....he finds those things boring, so he ends up hating her chapters not because he's sexist, but because he can't connect with a character like Sansa.

Never knew that finding girly things boring and not relating to it, is sexist. lol

It is when you think about. We don't consider Jon to be boring because his chapters is full of boyish things. No that is because white male characters are seen as universal and the default and therefore we "relate" to him more.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

I like Sansa and dislike Dany does that mean i am quasi sexist?

Oh and also i love Stannis and hate Rhaegar does that mean i am quasi misandrist?

Crying Sexism if some one hates a character you like is just plainly ridiculous at most times.

[The Mountain That Rhymes]

I hated her the first time I read AGoT, mostly for the selling out Ned thing, but I've warmed to her as the series has continued. She's not the same selfish idiot kid she used to be.

Still think the readers that paint her as some future master of The Game are stretching things a bit, but she's a likeable character now.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

I like Sansa and dislike Dany does that mean i am quasi sexist?

Oh and also i love Stannis and hate Rhaegar does that mean i am quasi misandrist?

Crying Sexism if some one hates a character you like is just plainly ridiculous at most times.

Clearly you haven't been reading the comment really well. It isn't just about disliking the characters, but why? Do you find the character boring? Then there is no big deal. I have said that several times in this thread. However if you dislike a female character because she takes control of her sexuality or her chapters are full with girly stuff then yes you are a sexist.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

I hated her the first time I read AGoT, mostly for the selling out Ned thing, but I've warmed to her as the series has continued. She's not the same selfish idiot kid she used to be.

Still think the readers that paint her as some future master of The Game are stretching things a bit, but she's a likeable character now.

None of us think that Sansa will be a master player in the future. However what we do think is that she will be a player in the upcoming two books. Considering her arc has mainly been about politics and court intrigue her becoming a player is the next obvious step for Sansa.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

Clearly you haven't been reading the comment really well. It isn't just about disliking the characters, but why? Do you find the character boring? Then there is no big deal. I have said that several times in this thread. However if you dislike a female character because she takes control of her sexuality or her chapters are full with girly stuff then yes you are a sexist.

Wasn't aimed at you all. Not sure why you are making me read your comment. :unsure:

Who said that? Not me, i stated in my post i like Sansa.

[N/A]

I like Sansa and dislike Dany does that mean i am quasi sexist?

Oh and also i love Stannis and hate Rhaegar does that mean i am quasi misandrist?

Crying Sexism if some one hates a character you like is just plainly ridiculous at most times.

it is a general rule that all threads must turn into Stannis threads

"all threads lead to Stannis "