The Snowfyre Chorus Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 It's also similar to the smell coming off any thread overfull of Jon adoration (he who is both fire and ice, future king of Westeros, balancer of mystical forces, AAR, Lightbringer personified, hero and protagonist of SoIaF, enthusiastic proponent of female-receiving oral sex, and all-around swell guy -- basically, St. Jon the Divine).Word. I haven't spent a lot of time out on the General threads, but I took a stroll through there recently. And I've got to say - there are some otherwise intelligent folks out there who've been sucked in by the group-think excitement. I was fairly stunned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 I always kind of thought of the smell of the wights as kind of like what you smell when you open a freezer with frozen meat in it. Oh I like that one - which rather harks back to JNR's point about them being freeze-dried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 Word. I haven't spent a lot of time out on the General threads, but I took a stroll through there recently. And I've got to say - there are some otherwise intelligent folks out there who've been sucked in by the group-think excitement. I was fairly stunned. I was fairly stunned myself by the revelation that Ghost looking looking like a weirwood was a clever pointer to the Winterfell weirwood and confirmation that Jon's mother was Lyanna Stark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aDanceWithFlagons Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I posted a question recently which I received no response to. I actually did not expect a response, just something I was pondering. I want to post it again for a couple of reasons.In the AGOT prologue, why did the White Walkers show themselves? They could have kept to the trees and shadows. The choice was theirs. Yet they came out, only one at first, and let Waymar see. Then the rest followed. The White Walkers wanted to see and be seen. Combining this with the 'cold' and degree of 'cold'we're discussing in this thread brought another question to mind.Can the White Walkers decide how much cold to radiate or the degree of cold amplification? *(Within the limits of their power) Radiate is a good word for the cold coming from the WWs but I think of it also as amplifying the cold. It seems to me they should have control of the amount or degree of cold coming from their presence.The control to affect a large area or a smaller and/or more precise area. And what about the specificity of effects, as to menace or kill and wightify at their discretion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 As i said looking at the Wights more closely ; the blue glow that inhabits them,that gets driven out by fire (reminiscent of Mel's trick with Orel's eagle) the fact that it inhabits different host that like moving in hordes.I feel confident in saying it is an entity like a skinchanger. I often get the impression reading your arguments here that we're not in opposition but talking at cross purposes. The wights may be capable of individual control from time; there are questionmarks over Othor as well as Small Paul, but in general not, and certainly not sufficiently to operate a baby collection service. While some profess to doubt that Craster gives up his sons to the white walkers there really is no evidence credible or otherwise that wights are involved. Yes, the wights are "inhabited" by something, and for so many to be infected we're talking about dark magic, but they have the same icy blue eyes as the white walkers and there's no doubting that the two are associated or that the white walkers are using them as their foot soldiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aDanceWithFlagons Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I was fairly stunned myself by the revelation that Ghost looking looking like a weirwood was a clever pointer to the Winterfell weirwood and confirmation that Jon's mother was Lyanna Stark.Wow! I didn't see that connection before. Such subtlety so easily missed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 I posted a question recently which I received no response to. I actually did not expect a response, just something I was pondering. I want to post it again for a couple of reasons.In the AGOT prologue, why did the White Walkers show themselves? They could have kept to the trees and shadows. The choice was theirs. Yet they came out, only one at first, and let Waymar see. Then the rest followed. The White Walkers wanted to see and be seen. Combining this with the 'cold' and degree of 'cold'we're discussing in this thread brought another question to mind.Can the White Walkers decide how much cold to radiate or the degree of cold amplification? *(Within the limits of their power) Radiate is a good word for the cold coming from the WWs but I think of it also as amplifying the cold. It seems to me they should have control of the amount or degree of cold coming from their presence.The control to affect a large area or a smaller and/or more precise area. And what about the specificity of effects, as to menace or kill and wightify at their discretion. I think that the short answer is that they had no need to hide. They outnumbered the rangers and were confident of their ability to outfight them - as seen by the way one of them chose to duel with Ser Waymar. Its important to remember here that it is the prologue to the the first book in the series. Here are the Others; they are cold with icy blues eyes and are deadly. The fact that they left Ser Waymar as a booby trap for Will then completes the demonstration. They also raise the dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WierWood Wolf Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I posted a question recently which I received no response to. I actually did not expect a response, just something I was pondering. I want to post it again for a couple of reasons.In the AGOT prologue, why did the White Walkers show themselves? They could have kept to the trees and shadows. The choice was theirs. Yet they came out, only one at first, and let Waymar see. Then the rest followed. The White Walkers wanted to see and be seen. Combining this with the 'cold' and degree of 'cold'we're discussing in this thread brought another question to mind.Can the White Walkers decide how much cold to radiate or the degree of cold amplification? *(Within the limits of their power) Radiate is a good word for the cold coming from the WWs but I think of it also as amplifying the cold. It seems to me they should have control of the amount or degree of cold coming from their presence.The control to affect a large area or a smaller and/or more precise area. And what about the specificity of effects, as to menace or kill and wightify at their discretion. How about this, maybe the wightifing is like a,blood sacrifice and amplifies their powers somehow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 How about this, maybe the wightifing is like a,blood sacrifice and amplifies their powers somehow? Doubt it, if anything it would drain rather than amplify their energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aDanceWithFlagons Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I think that the short answer is that they had no need to hide. They outnumbered the rangers and were confident of their ability to outfight them - as seen by the way one of them chose to duel with Ser Waymar. Its important to remember here that it is the prologue to the the first book in the series. Here are the Others; they are cold with icy blues eyes and are deadly. The fact that they left Ser Waymar as a booby trap for Will then completes the demonstration. They also raise the dead.I see all of that. I'm thinking they could have used the Cold to kill the ranger but wanted to do it first hand. Just for fun or maybe to see what these crows have to offer. Either way, I was tying it all together with the question of - how much control the WWs have over the cold. Maybe its not a big deal, but I think it relates to the discussion from this thread. Although I could go for talk of something else. Thought of turning the discussion to a shipping thread. Jon <3 Val. Hooray!ETA I forgot to add in the frozen wildlings nearby Will and Waymar. Thats what got me thinking bout one group killed with cold and the other by sword with the WWs in the midst of it all. All of this should've been in that one post, but i hit the button before i finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eira Seren Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I was fairly stunned myself by the revelation that Ghost looking looking like a weirwood was a clever pointer to the Winterfell weirwood and confirmation that Jon's mother was Lyanna Stark. :stunned: Ok. No, I'm sure that because Ghost looks like a weirwood and Raventree Hall had a weirwood tree, and he and Bloodraven are white with red eyes, that Jon's mother is a Blackwood. Suddenly every weirwood is laden with meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aDanceWithFlagons Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Deleted post. Since this is wasted space i WILL use it to say Im switching from White Walkers to Others. Its easier and I get tired of using WWs for shorthand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eira Seren Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I posted a question recently which I received no response to. I actually did not expect a response, just something I was pondering. I want to post it again for a couple of reasons.In the AGOT prologue, why did the White Walkers show themselves? They could have kept to the trees and shadows. The choice was theirs. Yet they came out, only one at first, and let Waymar see. Then the rest followed. The White Walkers wanted to see and be seen. Combining this with the 'cold' and degree of 'cold'we're discussing in this thread brought another question to mind.Can the White Walkers decide how much cold to radiate or the degree of cold amplification? *(Within the limits of their power) Radiate is a good word for the cold coming from the WWs but I think of it also as amplifying the cold. It seems to me they should have control of the amount or degree of cold coming from their presence.The control to affect a large area or a smaller and/or more precise area. And what about the specificity of effects, as to menace or kill and wightify at their discretion. 9 days north of the Wall is quite a distance. We don't really know exactly what happened to Benjen's ranging party, but it makes me think that you could be right, it could be a test to see what the rangers will do. It's not like two opposing scouting parties meet by accident (or is it?), since it seems the Icy Folk had just been in the vicinity of the wildling camp; I'd assume they were busy clearing that sector of wildlings and then caught Will's scent, so to speak, and followed him back. Once they saw the rangers advancing, I think they wanted to investigate. The way they approach seems to indicate that. They might have killed them all along, but I think they take their initial cue from Royce. First he calls out a challenge -- who's there? Then, when the Other shows himself, Royce warns him, but "[takes] his sword in both hands." That's practically an invitation. Then he "lift his sword high over his head, defiant." The Other actually halts his advance and takes his measure before deciding to attack. So I think they're curious. They also seem to prefer that there's no-one to report back. Will has to stop climbing the tree to listen to Royce calling out the challenge right before the Icy Folk appear. Yet only Will can see them; Royce doesn't, and calls up to Will to ask what he can see. Will is too frightened to give away his position, but I'm pretty sure the Icy Folk know Will is there and happily leave Royce to wightify in the clearing beneath him. How they missed Garin, I really don't know. They don't seem to waste any extra energy sending the wighted wildlings after him, if they in fact do control the wights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNR Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Then he "lift his sword high over his head, defiant." The Other actually halts his advance and takes his measure before deciding to attack. Yes, this is extremely suggestive. To me, the clear implication is that the Other is well aware that there could be a dangerous factor worth examining here before going ahead and committing to battle. The Other, in other words, is checking out what Royce has in his hands. It is informed by the distant past that there are some situations in which Men might be armed with a deadly thing, against which the Others cannot stand. So the Other wonders: Is it... could it be...? Then the Other decides... No! It's safe! Royce does not have Jon Snow in his hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aDanceWithFlagons Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Yes Eira Seren I think the WWs were curious. So they came in close to see whats what before killing the man. I think they knew Will was there also. Which leads me to believe Black Crow's 'booby trap' idea.Good show JNR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WierWood Wolf Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Doubt it, if anything it would drain rather than amplify their energy. Makes sense actually. They would be expending energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WierWood Wolf Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Yes, this is extremely suggestive. To me, the clear implication is that the Other is well aware that there could be a dangerous factor worth examining here before going ahead and committing to battle. The Other, in other words, is checking out what Royce has in his hands. It is informed by the distant past that there are some situations in which Men might be armed with a deadly thing, against which the Others cannot stand. So the Other wonders: Is it... could it be...? Then the Other decides... No! It's safe! Royce does not have Jon Snow in his hands. In which case he would ice in his pants.....umm you see he can't wet his pants.... oh never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aDanceWithFlagons Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Makes sense actually. They would be expending energy.I thing the Others just need the cold to gain power. It seems they would be stronger in the deep winter than the begining of it. Well not only cold, the magic too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aDanceWithFlagons Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 In which case he would ice in his pants.....umm you see he can't wet his pants.... oh never mind.Hah! Someone should start an Other joke thread. Or a North joke thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagda Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I agree when Sam commented on the wights not having a smell, he meant they weren't decomposing. Cold does have a smell. It smells of outdoors but it does have an almost unpleasant odor almost like stale french fries. :ack: You'd think smelling like outdoors would smell good, but it doesn't to me. This is only an odor that I've noticed in the winter. The outdoors in the other seasons smell good, but the other three seasons have other good smelling things in the air like grass, woods, flowers, etc. Winter smells exactly as described: like "cold".Cold doesn't have a smell. Things left in a frozen state do though ... think of the smell of freezer burn, something off, something tainted.Age is another problem with the cold. Frozen air might preserve, but the process desicates, like the desert would, pulling moisture from anything around. If cold hands was old or ancient he would look like a mummy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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