Heresy 99

[JNR]

@ BC as you can see there was a cold feeling, I posted this quote before, so I don't get why people are saying the Wights don't have a cold themselves.

Well, I reread this passage just now.

And you're right! I am now inclined to think the wights have some minimal cold of their own.

In addition to the previous quotes, Othor's hand going down Jon's throat (bleh) is "icy cold," his eyes are covered with "frost," and his skin is "cold." It's enough for me.

However, I still think the wights alone are not the source of this cold. I think the Others are animating them as thralls, and the Others are the original source of this cold, which is certainly far stronger in them than in the wights.

This we can safely conclude from the fact that after Jon hacks Othor with his sword, he can still use the sword (and he does).

Compare to: Grenn, who tries to pick up the dragonglass dagger used by Godslayer to slay the god, and has to drop it instantly, saying "Mother, that's cold."

In addition, and I admit this is just an opinion, I just cannot conceive of Jon surviving an Other shoving its hand down his throat. I think he'd be dead in a heartbeat. Whatever harm Othor's hand did to Jon this way, in contrast, seems to be trivial.

So, yes, I am revising my opinion, but the root cause of the cold, and primary source, does still very much appear to me to be the Others (not the Othors).

[aDanceWithFlagons]

While those quotes are correct,the quote above was specific to what was happening "in the vicinity" which is accurate. The above quote was what Jon felt near him and it accurate it was being emitted by the risen Wights..There could have been a Wight mass in the forest somewhere.If we look at the time when Chett noticed the cold wind rising to when the Wights attacked it was a bit a time that went by.Same with Bran and Co outside climbing the hill to the cave of the COTF. From the time the cold wind rose,to the cold which cold hands reported.My point being that the events are in succession and can be felt near and far

Okay, but the rangers had been wightified before they arrived at Castle Black. In the warm weather they are comatose. The magic that made them wights was already put inside them, yet in a dormant state. Once the cold weather comes in they are reanimated. My point is the cold came and then the rangers could move about again.

Also, the wights are 'created' by the WWs, who are beings of ice and cold.

Wightification is the process of the dead reanimating by the magic of White Walkers. Can be used as an adjective also. The wightified ranger.

[Black Crow]

If you look back before Jon wakes up cold, you will see the weather changing. After arriving at Castle Black with the two 'dead' rangers, Jon makes his way to the LC's Tower. After leaving the Tower we get this description. 'The wind was rising, and it seemed colder in the yard than it had when he'd gone in. Spirit summer was drawing to an end.

Then two paragraphs down we get this description. 'A north wind had begun to blow by the time the sun went down. Jon could hear it skirling against the Wall and over the icy battlements as he went to the common hall for the evening meal.'

So the weather has changed from no wind, warm and humid when they found the bodies to windy and colder before Jon falls asleep that night.

The coldness allowed Othor and Jafer to reanimate. The coldness did not not come from these two wights.

:agree:

I agree entirely. Yes its cold, which is why the wights have risen again. However the cold Jon feels on wakening and the absence of any specific reference to cold in Mormont's chambers and the fact of his noticing the cold of Othor's fingers as they go down his throat and the hoar frost only on Othor's eyes, all clearly point to it not being, as JNR puts it, the supernatural cold associated with the white walkers. Or to put it another way, they are charged up with cold magic inside them, but that's not the same as "radiating" it as the walkers do.

[Black Crow]

As we're discussing creatures of cold, I think its worth recalling those passages from the Ice Dragon, which I think are entirely relevant to the white walkers:

Adara liked the winter best of all, for when the world grew cold the ice dragon came.

She was never quite sure whether it was the cold that brought the ice dragon or the ice dragon that brought the cold...

But, five pages later:

The ice dragon breathed cold.

Ice formed when it breathed. Warmth fled. Fires guttered and went out, shriven by the chill. Trees froze through to their slow secret souls, and their limbs turned brittle and cracked from their own weight. Animals turned blue and whimpered and died, their eyes bulging and their skin covered over with frost.

The ice dragon breathed death into the world; death and quiet and cold. But Adara was not afraid. She was a winter child, and the ice dragon was her secret.

[Melifeather]

GRRM has confirmed that it was "sword".

Yeah, I figured somebody would point that out. But maybe.....

If you look back before Jon wakes up cold, you will see the weather changing. After arriving at Castle Black with the two 'dead' rangers, Jon makes his way to the LC's Tower. After leaving the Tower we get this description. 'The wind was rising, and it seemed colder in the yard than it had when he'd gone in. Spirit summer was drawing to an end.

Then two paragraphs down we get this description. 'A north wind had begun to blow by the time the sun went down. Jon could hear it skirling against the Wall and over the icy battlements as he went to the common hall for the evening meal.'

So the weather has changed from no wind, warm and humid when they found the bodies to windy and colder before Jon falls asleep that night.

The coldness allowed Othor and Jafer to reanimate. The coldness did not not come from these two wights.

I agree the wights do not bring the cold, they are reanimated by the cold. The White Walkers radiate cold since they're the ones made of ice.

[aDanceWithFlagons]

:agree:

I agree entirely. Yes its cold, which is why the wights have risen again. However the cold Jon feels on wakening and the absence of any specific reference to cold in Mormont's chambers and the fact of his noticing the cold of Othor's fingers as they go down his throat and the hoar frost only on Othor's eyes, all clearly point to it not being, as JNR puts it, the supernatural cold associated with the white walkers. Or to put it another way, they are charged up with cold magic inside them, but that's not the same as "radiating" it as the walkers do.

I agree with this. I sort of touched on the magic inside of the wight in my last post, but not the cold. You and JNR explain it very well.

[wolfmaid7]

Well, I reread this passage just now.

And you're right! I am now inclined to think the wights have some minimal cold of their own.

In addition to the previous quotes, Othor's hand going down Jon's throat (bleh) is "icy cold," his eyes are covered with "frost," and his skin is "cold." It's enough for me.

However, I still think the wights alone are not the source of this cold. I think the Others are animating them as thralls, and the Others are the original source of this cold, which is certainly far stronger in them than in the wights.

This we can safely conclude from the fact that after Jon hacks Othor with his sword, he can still use the sword (and he does).

Compare to: Grenn, who tries to pick up the dragonglass dagger used by Godslayer to slay the god, and has to drop it instantly, saying "Mother, that's cold."

In addition, and I admit this is just an opinion, I just cannot conceive of Jon surviving an Other shoving its hand down his throat. I think he'd be dead in a heartbeat. Whatever harm Othor's hand did to Jon this way, in contrast, seems to be trivial.

So, yes, I am revising my opinion, but the root cause of the cold, and primary source, does still very much appear to me to be the Others (not the Othors).

To your first point to which i explained already previously,i don't think a Wight or two on its own is problematic. Its the collective of the horde that is the problems.As seen in the case of the Fist,Sam and Bran.Them together is worst than any WW.Next, i am not saying the Wights are the source of "the cold" I am saying and have said,"the cold" behaves like a skinchanger and i believe it is some corruption of that. Based on the "blue glow" that inhabits them,the way it fled from Small Paul much like how V6 fled from Orell's Eagle i am confident in saying that i believe this entity is a Skinchanging like being that Skinchanges the dead.I believe CH's is an example of that somehow.

I also,talked about the situation with Jon which is the almost the same with Small Paul,the Wights make for very efficient killers of the healthy,where as the cold was restricted to claiming the sick and dying.I'm confused as to where the idea that the Wights are the origin of "the cold" came from seeing as i repeatedly talked about the Skinchanging analogy.

I don't think the WWs are responsible for this because there is no evidence that they are,if we take away all labels.....be honest, the blue glow,the reaction to fire much like Mels expulsion of V6....Thistle....Tell me this thing does not behave like a Skinchanger.It is an entity,it is alive. It is not a mustering of the element of ice to reanimate anyone.

WWs being cold does not equate them being the originator of it and i still see no proof other than the belief of characters based on tales that they the WWs are responsible.

So again to restate again,i am not saying the Wights are the origin of "the cold" . I'm saying "the cold" brings them because it skinchanges the dead.

Okay, but the rangers had been wightified before they arrived at Castle Black. In the warm weather they are comatose. The magic that made them wights was already put inside them, yet in a dormant state. Once the cold weather comes in they are reanimated. My point is the cold came and then the rangers could move about again.

Also, the wights are 'created' by the WWs, who are beings of ice and cold.

Wightification is the process of the dead reanimating by the magic of White Walkers. Can be used as an adjective also. The wightified ranger.

I agree,and i believe i was the one that initially proposed the weather "anomaly" as a factor, and as you can see i stated anomaly because it is,it comes out of nowhere which only happens when Wights are en masse. I say that because,nothing else has occurred to offset that hypothesis.

This again is what we call a confounding variable,we can't say that because the WWs are cold and made of ice that they are responsible for them. If so then based on some people's viewpoint of the COTF,then they created the Wights. You see where i'm going with this?

Its not just a cold,its a "cold wind rising" which only happens again with Wights,no WWs that's how we know who is present and who is not.

So i will say again,if we look at the variety of what is being raised( birds,people,bears,things in water) the area and look at the WWs when they come on the scene it is the time in which people feel cold to when they are seen it is only a matter of seconds (Sam,ASOS,P.250) and the cold the WW emitted was personable not far reaching.For the amount of WWs and the extent of what they radiate ,they don't have the juice,this is something above their pay grade.

We have no proof that they are raising anything only speculation based on unreliable stories and based on what we have seen with out own eyes they aren't raising them.

[Grey Words]

If you look back before Jon wakes up cold, you will see the weather changing. After arriving at Castle Black with the two 'dead' rangers, Jon makes his way to the LC's Tower. After leaving the Tower we get this description. 'The wind was rising, and it seemed colder in the yard than it had when he'd gone in. Spirit summer was drawing to an end.

Then two paragraphs down we get this description. 'A north wind had begun to blow by the time the sun went down. Jon could hear it skirling against the Wall and over the icy battlements as he went to the common hall for the evening meal.'

So the weather has changed from no wind, warm and humid when they found the bodies to windy and colder before Jon falls asleep that night.
The coldness allowed Othor and Jafer to reanimate. The coldness did not not come from these two wights.

You're correct that the weather was changing and the cold wind was rising. I think it's the cold arriving that is what animates the wights, concentrates in them which makes them an even deeper, intense cold. For Jon to comment, "When had it gotten so cold" sounds like a remarkable depth of cold that in turn makes him shiver uncontrollably. Naturally, when Othor touches him that contact with the source of concentrated cold is noticeable as being even more intense.

While those quotes are correct,the quote above was specific to what was happening "in the vicinity" which is accurate. The above quote was what Jon felt near him and it accurate it was being emitted by the risen Wights..There could have been a Wight mass in the forest somewhere.If we look at the time when Chett noticed the cold wind rising to when the Wights attacked it was a bit a time that went by.Same with Bran and Co outside climbing the hill to the cave of the COTF. From the time the cold wind rose,to the cold which cold hands reported.My point being that the events are in succession and can be felt near and far

:agree: Well said, Wolfmaid and thanks for that.

Ultimately there is more than one way of looking at the event and there are varying opinions regarding its interpretation to which we are all entitled. I respect those that differ from mine and do enjoy hearing different ideas.

[wolfmaid7]

:agree:

I agree entirely. Yes its cold, which is why the wights have risen again. However the cold Jon feels on wakening and the absence of any specific reference to cold in Mormont's chambers and the fact of his noticing the cold of Othor's fingers as they go down his throat and the hoar frost only on Othor's eyes, all clearly point to it not being, as JNR puts it, the supernatural cold associated with the white walkers. Or to put it another way, they are charged up with cold magic inside them, but that's not the same as "radiating" it as the walkers do.

Actually it was cold,Jon felt it when he got out of his cell heading up the stairs,so science tells me his body had already began to adjust,it already being cold by their presence.As you yourself have put it many times,why repeat something over and over when it has been established. Jon already told us the moment he stepped out heading up to Mormont that it was cold. Now the insertion of Othor's hand down Jon'e throat and remarking how cold that was is not strange,it would be strange if he didn't think anything.The fact that he had Hoarfroast on his eyes tells me that the viscus fluid froze and seeing as that comes from within i'd say he was cold.

I agree on the WWs radiating (personal cold) and i've said this before,what the WWs radiate is natural to them, they are cold creatures and there is nothing strange about that,hell they are made of ice so that would be strange if they don't emit it.

However,that does not mean that because they radiate cold that they are raising the dead.We have no proof of that,other than what is believed in the natural experiment that is 5 books we have no proof. The cold they emit,is not the same cold that the Wights have,and they do emit it.The effects are felt en mass more than anything.Bran's experience outside the cave,Sam's experience outside the hut,Chett and co,Thistle and V6.All wights all cold ( en masse)

There is proof that 'something" inhabits the Wights and the characteristics match and behave like a skinchanger which tells me that it in fact is an entity on it's own.The WWs have nothing to do with that.It is intelligent enough to plant two Wights who were members of the Watch where they could find it,intelligent enough to send the one Wights who saved Sam's life into the little hut.

This -i will continue to disagree with- is not worked magic this is a life form.Supernatural or biological but the signs point to it being a badass skinchanger type being.

As we're discussing creatures of cold, I think its worth recalling those passages from the Ice Dragon, which I think are entirely relevant to the white walkers:

Adara liked the winter best of all, for when the world grew cold the ice dragon came.

She was never quite sure whether it was the cold that brought the ice dragon or the ice dragon that brought the cold...

But, five pages later:

The ice dragon breathed cold.

Ice formed when it breathed. Warmth fled. Fires guttered and went out, shriven by the chill. Trees froze through to their slow secret souls, and their limbs turned brittle and cracked from their own weight. Animals turned blue and whimpered and died, their eyes bulging and their skin covered over with frost.

The ice dragon breathed death into the world; death and quiet and cold. But Adara was not afraid. She was a winter child, and the ice dragon was her secret.

But this doesn't dismiss what i'm saying,it's a curiosity and an answer that doesn't have a plot purpose in this story.While the dragon in that story is clear as day. In this tale we may be looking at the wrong dragon :stunned: .

[Black Crow]

I think that the problem we (and I think I speak for most of us here) are having with your theory is that it flies in the face of the evidence which we are given and the reasons which you cite to the contrary fail to convince.

In the prologue we see the undoubted white walkers turn up with their bright blue eyes, accompanied by an intense cold. There is a puzzle in that the dead wildlings have gone, but they were not wights before Ser Waymar turned up and there is no doubt first that Ser Waymar was their prey or that he became a wight after they killed him. There was a small time interval certainly but I had the distinct impression his rising was a booby trap rather than a separate event. It would be a very strange piece of writing if he did rise from the dead within the space of a few lines without our being given an indication that the cause was something different.

We are told by Craster's wives that their arrival is imminent because the cold winds are rising and Gilly's description of the cold gods, the white shadows in the night is consistent with white walkers, not with wights - as is giving them sheep if no boys are available. While we don't know why sheep might be an acceptable substitute the fact that a single babe or sheep is enough once again counters any suggestion that the collection service is run by wights, whose powers of comprehension let alone communication skills seem very limited indeed.

The problem, basically, is that we are presented by GRRM with a scenario in myth and legend, per Old Nan, the archives of Castle Black per Sam, and actual encounters, whereby the white walkers, who themselves are few in numbers are rendered formidable first by killing you and then sending your own dead against you; and thus far the case that something quite different is happening has not been made.

We are told that the white cold raises the dead, and whilst there is uncertainty amongst the good folk of Westeros as to whether the white walkers come with the cold or whether they bring it, the question was answered very decisively in the Ice Dragon as quoted above.

[JNR]

New thought.

I propose that the wightification process -- in which supernatural cold infuses corpses -- amounts to freeze-drying the corpses' blood!

Specifically, it renders their blood dry and dusty, as the Godslayer explicitly points out in his postmortem of Othor and Jafer. This is what gives wights the queer, uncanny smell of cold mentioned several times.

That their blood has been freeze-dried is exactly why the wights are so intensely flammable. The moisture in them is simply gone... as it's gone from freeze-dried ice cream.

[Black Crow]

Nothing new under the sun I'm afraid. I can't remember how far back but we did discuss this as a possible reason for their flammability.

Its good nevertheless to get an independent view on this one - I heartily agree and the only problem I've got is how something like that retains its ordinary flexibility, to which the answer has to be magic, just as the white walkers are snow and ice and cold made flesh.

Although the demise of Ser Puddles is obviously different in the HBO show, I prefer that version precisely for that very reason; when the magic is broken by Sam's dagger, he literally stops working. The ice is no longer flexible and reverts instead to its solid state.

[wolfmaid7]

My big problem is this,the evidence isn't clear and there is reasonable doubt form the tales to what where seeing.It makes things don't add up no matter how we try to and while i appreciate what you listed its problematic in that it can be circumvented with evidence.Now i'm not saying i'm right,i'm saying that we seem quick to say X is the case even though evidence is saying there is something else.

lets take a few of your points and points ive seen over and over again- Old nan and the archives say they kill you and send your dead against you,you indicate the Waymar incident as proof of that given that Waymar rose right after they killed him.I don't get how that was booby trap to me it was as simple as "the cold" killed them,my gosh a woman was in a tree and the others died without injury around a fire it was as if they lay down and died didn't even feel it happen.Moving on...

Will in fact said that after he saw the final blow he turned away and after a "long while had passed" he opened his eyes and they were gone. We know what happened next he rose.The problem with this is we have seen instances where the WWs for sure didn't kill certain people and they were Wighted.

Tourmond's son who died while he was asleep in their camp,and Thistle who we actually saw being Wighted.Therefore,what was written in the archive about those who fall in battle against the Others is not entirely true.These are these are some inaccuracies.

The white world turned and fell away. For a moment it was as if he were inside the weirwood, gazing out through carved red eyes as a dying man twitched feebly on the ground and a madwoman danced blind and bloody underneath the moon, weeping red tears and ripping at her clothes. Then both were gone and he was rising, melting, his spirit borne on some cold wind.

Prologue as you stated we see the WWs show up with blue eyes and intense cold yes,problem it was the first contact with people from the Southside of the Wall and our first introduction. But given Osha's statement they started fleeing south before we saw that first encounter,they were already on the move.Event are relative to who is talking so even though our and those Southside's first encounter was the prologue Wildlings were already on the run.

The cold winds are rising, and men go out from their fires and never come back ... or if they do, they're not men no more, but only wights, with blue eyes and cold black hands. Why do you think I run south with Stiv and Hali and the rest of them fools?^[15]
- Osha to Bran Stark

We are told by Craster's wives this:Which is the snowstom that comes out of nowhere,and we know what happened on the fist.

"That won't help you none when the White cold comes,Gilly had spoken of the White cold as well"(Sam.asos,pg.445).
"He gives the boys to the gods.Come the White cold,he does"(ACOK,pg.370).

The cold Winds rising appear only with Wights that's in the books and i've put those quotes too many times,we are absolutely sure there are Wights.Now the two incidences where we did see WWs this.Cold,but no "Cold Winds rising"

Will heard the breath go out of Ser Waymar Royce in a long hiss. "Come no farther," the lordling warned. His voice cracked like a boy's. He threw the long s able cloak back over his shoulders, to free his arms for battle, and took his sword in both hands. The wind had stopped. It was very cold. (AGOT,Prologue).

The wind sighed through the trees,driving a fine spray of snow in their faces.The cold was so bitter that Sam felt naked(ASOS,Sam,pg.251). So we have the conditions for them;very cold and wind stopping
More about the WWs

Gilly's conversation with Jon and what happened with Small Paul leaves big doubts that she saw WWs taking the babes,i believe her reaction,the conversation,and the weather patterns which tells me Wights are picking p the boys,not WWs.

I agree we are presented with Myths scenarios,and accounts,but they don't add up there are too many inconsistencies to say without a doubt WWs are responsible.There is reasonable doubt.

As i stated,my mind on this isn't going to change and i'm not trying to convince anyone else, hence my for those who believe the cold and for those who believe the WWs.I'm only saying that Old Nan and the tales have been proven wrong or not entirely accurate and that to me means not jumping to say WWs are responsible.

[Black Crow]

Indeed, its something we're going to have to differ on because I for one don't believe that there is evidence to suggest that in this case things aint what they seem. Nevertheless at least we can argue about it peaceable like, unlike someone else I can think of - and no I'm not talking about Varmyr :cheers:

[nanother]

I've been trying to make sense of my collection of quotes. I was tracking cold, 'cold smell', wind, snow, animal reactions, weird psychological effects (and the moon, but no obvious relevance there). A few initial observations:

There's a 'cold smell' that the wights and Coldhands seem to have (and they are indeed cold: Royce, Othor, Small Paul are all described to have an icy cold touch). But it seems the smell can also appear without actual cold:

Jon, ACoK, Craster’s:

So long as he gives us a hot meal and a chance to dry our clothes, I’ll be happy. Dywen said

Craster was a kinslayer, liar, raper, and craven, and hinted that he trafficked with slavers and demons.

“And worse,” the old forester would add, clacking his wooden teeth. “There’s a cold smell to that one, there is.”

Jon, ACoK, Fist

Dywen was holding forth, spoon in hand. “I know this wood as well as any man alive, and I tell you, I wouldn’t care to ride through it alone tonight. Can’t you smell it?”

...

“Seems to me like it smells . . . well . . . cold. “

Neither ww nor wights are seen, even though Jon goes out alone in the woods. It's not exceptionally cold either, although windy. However, Jon is filled with a sense of foreboding, he thinks the ravens feel it too, and Ghost behaves very strangely and eventually leads Jon to the buried horn& dragonglass.

It's likely the same smell he feels when they find the wights near the weirwood grove, although he doesn't name it then:

The rangers gathered round to offer smiles and congratulations, all but the gnarled old forester Dywen. “Best we be starting back, m’lord,” he said to Bowen Marsh. “Dark’s falling, and there’s something in the smell o’ the night that I mislike.”

(Jon, AGoT)

This smell might be the reason animals are so afraid of them:

Behind him, Gilly murmured to calm the garron and tried to urge it toward the door. But the horse must have caught a whiff of the wight’s queer cold scent. Suddenly she balked, rearing, her hooves lashing at the frosty air.

(Sam, ASoS, non-Whitetree)

Now, the Cold, when it hurts to breathe:

(ASoS Prologue, but Sam reports a similar experience in non-Whitetree)

He could hardly breathe. Had he gone to sleep? He got to his knees, and something wet and cold touched his nose. Chett looked up.

Snow was falling.

[Val and Tormund’s words from ADwD:

“The air tastes sweet.”

“My tongue is too numb to tell. All I can taste is cold.”

“Cold?” Val laughed lightly. “No. When it is cold it will hurt to breathe. When the Others

come …

(if we’re operating under the assumption that the Others and wights are sometimes mixed up, this is not saying much)

Tormund turned back. “You know nothing. You killed a dead man, aye, I heard. Mance killed a

hundred. A man can fight the dead, but when their masters come, when the white mists rise up … how do you fight a mist, crow? Shadows with teeth … air so cold it hurts to breathe, like a knife inside your chest … you do not know, you cannot know … can your sword cut cold?”

Well, here there’s a distinction between fighting the dead (= wights, obviously) and fighting with their masters present (= white mists); implying, the wights might come with or without them? says nothing whatsoever about the ww]

Other accounts of cold:

AGoT Prologue:

“Come no farther,” the lordling warned. His voice cracked like a boy’s. He threw the long sable cloak back over his shoulders, to free his arms for battle, and took his sword in both hands. The wind had stopped. It was very cold.

…

They emerged silently from the shadows, twins to the first. Three of them . . . four . . . five . . .

Ser Waymar may have felt the cold that came with them, but he never saw them, never heard them.

(suggesting that it got colder still?)

Sam about the Fist:

It had been very cold that night. Even colder than now. The snow feels almost warm.

Sam when Ser Puddles shows up:

He was so scared he might have pissed himself all over again, but the cold was in him, a cold so savage that his bladder felt frozen solid.

Bran:

But the air was sharp and cold and full of fear. Even Summer was afraid.

...

Meera eyed the hill above. “The way looks clear.”

“Looks,” the ranger muttered darkly. “Can you feel the cold? There’s something here. Where are they?”

…

Summer stopped suddenly, at the bottom of a steep stretch of unbroken white snow. The direwolf turned his head, sniffed the air, then snarled. Fur bristling, he began to back away. “Hodor, stop,” said Bran. “Hodor. Wait.” Something was wrong. Summer smelled it, and so did he. Something bad. Something close.

[Black Crow]

That's an interesting collection of passages there and all the more so for their consistency. There seems a very clear distinction between the two. In very simple terms it seems to me that the defining characteristic of the two is the very intense cold associated with the white walkers, while the wights although obviously cold are defined not by such intense cold but by being, well, smelly.

[wolfmaid7]

Well i think that is easily answered....We know some people die with no injuries like the Wildlings in the prologue and Tourmond's son.Jon only smelled what he did because he injured Othor and the scent came out.So this tells me that if you have a mass whose members are intact you won't get the scent. The Mass on the Fist was huge so there was bound to be some who were injured so the smell would get out. This explains Jon's coughing fit,Chett , Tourmond's and Sam's report of breathing problems breathing when they encountered the hordes or they were within proximity.

In the case with Bran there was also problems breathing from Hodor,Meera and Jojen...Bran to i believe.Their breathing was described as labored.However,i dismissed that seeing as there was a confounder of them going up a steep hill,i can't say otherwise so i can't use it as evidence.Same with Thistle and V,he was sick and she most likely hauled ass and ran like a bat out of hell the moment she saw the horde which could account the breathing difficulties. But still this is a factor

[Black Crow]

I'm not sure what you're getting at here, but it doesn't alter the fact that the wights are characterised by a cold dank smell, consistent with their being dead, and not by the very intense cold associated with the white walkers

Quite honestly I'm really not convinced that the disconnection between the white walkers and the wights which you're proposing exists or that it serves any useful plot purpose, everything we've got is consistent with the wights being the foot soldiers for the white walkers, who like the Ice Dragon bring the cold.

ETA: and with that to bed. Good night all, see you in the morning.

[theREALjonsnow]

I'm not sure what you're getting at here, but it doesn't alter the fact that the wights are characterised by a cold dank smell, consistent with their being dead, and not by the very intense cold associated with the white walkers

Quite honestly I'm really not convinced that the disconnection between the white walkers and the wights which you're proposing exists or that it serves any useful plot purpose, everything we've got is consistent with the wights being the foot soldiers for the white walkers, who like the Ice Dragon bring the cold.

ETA: and with that to bed. Good night all, see you in the morning.

:agree:

[wolfmaid7]

I'm not sure what you're getting at here, but it doesn't alter the fact that the wights are characterised by a cold dank smell, consistent with their being dead, and not by the very intense cold associated with the white walkers

Quite honestly I'm really not convinced that the disconnection between the white walkers and the wights which you're proposing exists or that it serves any useful plot purpose, everything we've got is consistent with the wights being the foot soldiers for the white walkers, who like the Ice Dragon bring the cold.

ETA: and with that to bed. Good night all, see you in the morning.

I know... i brought the text up and that is incorrect BC to a point.

When the bodies are first brought to CB and the NW was making their observations Sam explicitly said there is "no smell" and no animal attacks except where Ghost tore off the hand . What i am getting at, is that Jon "only" got that smell because he injured Othor. Had he not,he would not have smelled anything. We know that from the text a person doesn't have to be injured to die,so that scent will remain until punctured.

It is therefore understandable why Jon and Dy would have gotten the smell,if there were Wights that got punctured by what ever means the smell would hang.If Sam Obsidian dagger had gone through Small Paul ,he would have gotten a nose ful as well.

Nevertheless though as Grey words re posted there is clearly a horrible cold coming from the Wights,i don't know why this fact is being ignored when the text says so.To say that the Wights are NOT characterized by cold is something dismissed by the text

GOT pg 545:

"...the room seemed to grow darker and colder...It’s me, Ghost,” he murmured, trying not to sound afraid. Yet he was trembling, violently. When had it gotten so cold?"

"Jon pushed himself to his feet. He was shivering uncontrollably,"

He crept to the door.The air was so cold it hurt to breathe,but such a fine sweet hurt(asos,Sam,pg.646).

But the air was sharp and cold and full of fear..................Buried from root to crown in frozen snow,they huddled on the hill like giants,monstrous and misshapen creatures hunched against the icy wind

"They are here."The ranger drew his longsword.........."Looks", the ranger muttered darkley "Can you feel the cold? There 's something here.Where are they?" (ADWD,Bran,pg.164 electronic version).