SpringKing Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Lysa, Robert and Harry... it seems like anyone in the Eyrie with power dies once LF shows up. Anyone who stands between LF and ultimate power in the Vale, starting with Jon Arryn. Except Sansa. But even that might change if she demonstrates independence. That would be a hard, unhappy choice for LF to make - between acquiring more power and his childhood dream of having Cat (or Sansa, her doppelgänger). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaver Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 That would be a hard, unhappy choice for LF to make - between acquiring more power and his childhood dream of having Cat (or Sansa, her doppelgänger). Oh yes, poor creeper LF, I feel so bad for him. Uh, wait no, now that I think of it, no compassion for the guy who basically engineered the WOT5K for shits and giggles. Happily, Sansa will outmaneuver LF due to his huge blindspot when it comes to her being Cat's lookalike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lummel Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I am not sure that Lord Baelish seriously ever intended to marry Sansa to Harry. Why should we believe that story? Has Petyr even shown himself to be honest and trustworthy? We know that he regularly lies to get people to do what he wants by promising them what he believes they want. The promise of a sparkling marriage is the equivalent of the gold, boys and opportunity to fight he gives Lyn Corbray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaver Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 The promise of a sparkling marriage is the equivalent of the gold, boys and opportunity to fight he gives Lyn Corbray. Only problem is Sansa is thoroughly and well past the point where a "sparkling marriage" is anything she'll be swayed by. She's tried that, it didn't exactly turn out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Sansa Stark Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 The promise of a sparkling marriage is the equivalent of the gold, boys and opportunity to fight he gives Lyn Corbray Except Sansa doesn't want that. She doesn't want to wed, not now and perhaps never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lummel Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Only problem is Sansa is thoroughly and well past the point where a "sparkling marriage" is anything she'll be swayed by. She's tried that, it didn't exactly turn out. Except Sansa doesn't want that. She doesn't want to wed, not now and perhaps never. Very true, I agree with your observations. But Lord Baelish doesn't know what we know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringKing Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Oh yes, poor creeper LF, I feel so bad for him. Uh, wait no, now that I think of it, no compassion for the guy who basically engineered the WOT5K for shits and giggles. Happily, Sansa will outmaneuver LF due to his huge blindspot when it comes to her being Cat's lookalike. It would be rather interesting to see a bad guy subject to Sam's dictum: "What had it all been for? No happy choices and no happy endings." Bit of a misinterpretation to conclude LF did it all for "shits and giggles". Not only have his schemes been a vast and well-plotted power grab, Jon Arryn's death was also intended to eventually eliminate Ned and draw Cat (now Sansa) within his clutches. Youre partially right about his blindspot though. "With my wits and Cat’s beauty, the world will be yours, sweetling" doesnt anticipate that Sansa's stupidity in accidentally killing SR will rock his world in all the wrong ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I am not sure that Lord Baelish seriously ever intended to marry Sansa to Harry. Why should we believe that story? Because it makes sense? Seriously, people overthink this. He wants control of the forces of the Vale -- he has no prospect of getting that on his own, so he needs a proxy. Harry is said proxy, and Alayne/Sansa is his way in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringKing Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Because it makes sense? Seriously, people overthink this. He wants control of the forces of the Vale -- he has no prospect of getting that on his own, so he needs a proxy. Harry is said proxy, and Alayne/Sansa is his way in. And once Sansa is "in", no more need for Harry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 And once Sansa is "in", no more need for Harry. Actually there is. The lords of the Vale are far more likely to follow Harry than they are Littlefinger. He probably plans to use Sansa to whisper in Harry's ear for him and manipulate him, then have him killed in a few years so it doesn't seem odd that the past four rulers of the Vale all died within about a year of each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Actually there is. The lords of the Vale are far more likely to follow Harry than they are Littlefinger. He probably plans to use Sansa to whisper in Harry's ear for him and manipulate him, then have him killed in a few years so it doesn't seem odd that the past four rulers of the Vale all died within about a year of each other. Yeah, I agree. Plus, Littlefinger's grand strategy is now entering the field of open military action, and Harry seems cut for the image of a tough young warrior king, which is what the situation calls for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaver Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 More than likely LF's plan is for Harry to knock Sansa up, then bump him off. That way he can keep being the Lord Protector, and this time of both the Vale and the North. Not that it'll happen, of course. LF is suckling an adder at his breast, but again, I'm way past feeling sorry for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lummel Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Because it makes sense? Seriously, people overthink this. He wants control of the forces of the Vale -- he has no prospect of getting that on his own, so he needs a proxy. Harry is said proxy, and Alayne/Sansa is his way in. Well it has to be plausible on the surface, like an anglers fake fly, but Lord Baelish already has de facto control over the Vale as Sweetrobin's guardian. Harry will be a new adult ruler, he could only be a proxy for control of the forces of the Vale in so far as he might be prepared to be open to Petyr's influence. A marriage might be an insurance policy to buy good will from the new ruler should the little Lord of the Vale die, but I'm not convinced that Littlefinger really thinks that far ahead. Which is why it is strange that he is so casual about Sweetrobin's life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Sansa Stark Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 More than likely LF's plan is for Harry to knock Sansa up, then bump him off. That way he can keep being the Lord Protector, and this time of both the Vale and the North. Not that it'll happen, of course. LF is suckling an adder at his breast, but again, I'm way past feeling sorry for him. What do you mean with that disturbing odd phrase. :shocked: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Well it has to be plausible on the surface, like an anglers fake fly, but Lord Baelish already has de facto control over the Vale as Sweetrobin's guardian. No, he has de jure control. In practice, his control doesn't extend much further than getting to stay in the Eyrie and manage little Lord Robert. Mobilizing the full might of the Vale for a major military campaign is an entirely different matter. For that he needs an inspiring lord who at least looks like his own man. Harry will be a new adult ruler, he could only be a proxy for control of the forces of the Vale in so far as he might be prepared to be open to Petyr's influence. Er, yeah, hence the point of the marriage. And more generally, Littlefinger is good at influencing people. A marriage might be an insurance policy to buy good will from the new ruler should the little Lord of the Vale die, but I'm not convinced that Littlefinger really thinks that far ahead. Except that he's just outlined a grand strategy that makes sense, so he has thought that far ahead. Which is why it is strange that he is so casual about Sweetrobin's life. Because Robert Arryn will need to die (comparatively) soon, and so his life longer has much importance. He said as much. Nothing strange about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringKing Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 More than likely LF's plan is for Harry to knock Sansa up, then bump him off. That way he can keep being the Lord Protector, and this time of both the Vale and the North. More satisfyingly cunning for LF to pull a page from Cersei's playbook and knock Sansa up himself and have everybody think it was Harry's heir. All this kissy-face is conditioning her for that. Well it has to be plausible on the surface, like an anglers fake fly, but Lord Baelish already has de facto control over the Vale as Sweetrobin's guardian. Harry will be a new adult ruler, he could only be a proxy for control of the forces of the Vale in so far as he might be prepared to be open to Petyr's influence. A marriage might be an insurance policy to buy good will from the new ruler should the little Lord of the Vale die, but I'm not convinced that Littlefinger really thinks that far ahead. Which is why it is strange that he is so casual about Sweetrobin's life. SR is pretty intractable and, being sickly and weak, is unlikely to inspire much enthusiasm or allegiance. We know LF is thinking far ahead from "I had hoped to have four or five quiet years to plant some seeds and allow some fruits to ripen, but now... it is a good thing that I thrive on chaos." No guarantee he'll be able to maintain control of Harry through Sansa. So no need for an unreliable pawn like Harry once an heir is apparent. LF counts on Sansa being the more dependable pawn. Mobilizing the full might of the Vale for a major military campaign is an entirely different matter. For that he needs an inspiring lord who at least looks like his own man. Warfare isnt LF's preferred style. Why go through all that trouble when bribery, deceit, betrayal, and a few judicious murders can accomplish the same at less risk and cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaver Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 More satisfyingly cunning for LF to pull a page from Cersei's playbook and knock Sansa up himself and have everybody think it was Harry's heir. All this kissy-face is conditioning her for that. Hmm, true. I'll revise my thoughts for his plan to that. Which just makes me more convinced he'll never pull it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Warfare isnt LF's preferred style. Why go through all that trouble when bribery, deceit, betrayal, and a few judicious murders can accomplish the same at less risk and cost. Because you can't take over whole kingdoms purely through spycraft. He can (and will) weaken his enemies further, but he's reaching the point in his plans where he's going to be acting openly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Katharynne Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Well... Bran did say he saw a vision of Sansa defeating giants at castles full with snow. As in plural. Meaning Sansa has to slay a second - most likely - and the real giant. Plus there is a certain pattern of the prophecies of that woman. She refers those who die by their sigils. And who has a giant as a sigil? Littlefinger. :DDo you remember which book Bran has his vision? Or a guesstimate based on storyline? I'm interested in finding it because I thought the witch meant Winterfell but Bran would state that if that were the location. She says "in a castle built of snow" so that is not her little snow castle at the Vale. Also I thought LF has a mockingbird as his sigil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Sansa Stark Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Do you remember which book Bran has his vision? Or a guesstimate based on storyline? I'm interested in finding it because I thought the witch meant Winterfell but Bran would state that if that were the location. She says "in a castle built of snow" so that is not her little snow castle at the Vale. Also I thought LF has a mockingbird as his sigil. Unfortunately I don't know which book that line comes from, sorry. Personally I do think that woman saw Sansa ripping apart that doll of sweetrobin and spiking it's head on the wall of her snow replica, but there is more to it. I believe it will be a foreshadowing in a foreshadowing. For example look at the other prophecies of the woman. Those who die are all human. More importantly she refers to those who have died by their sigils: Wolf; Robb, Fish: Catelyn, Dog; Gregor, Kraken; Balon Greyjoy, Golden Stag; Renly. The mockingbird is his personal sigl, but the head of a giant is his family's sigil. He tells Sansa in ASOS that he changed his sigil, because the Giant looked to threatening and didn't suit him whatsoever. Now another clue is when Arya is traveling to Braavos she sees the Titan of Braavos and thinks to herself that the Titan could step over the wall of Winterfell. And Littlefinger himself steps over the wall of the snow replica Winterfell. Plus when Arya travels to Braavos she is in the ship called the "Titan's daughter" and Sansa is right now disguising herself as the Titan's daughter. These little hints we are getting implies that the old sigil of Littlefinger is important. Plus the sigil of his family is only the head of a giant. Possible endgame for Littlefinger? To be beheaded and his head spiked on the wall of Winterfell as the prophecy states? It would be a good and poetic ending for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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