Books of the Fallen: Malazan thread

[Diziet]

Actually, I did read GotM and about half of the second book, but the opinions I've expressed thus far do not require me to have read all of SE and ICE's books. I did say that SE's books are better than Esselmont's, that was based on reviews, but it's irrelevant to the larger point in any case.

[Anatúrinbor]

Uh... At the very least you could've qualified your opinions by mentioning the fact that you've read nothing of ICE's work. Only to indicate that your posts on the matter should've been ignored.

[Diziet]

Uh... No, the issue of who should be credited with creating a world in a series of novels when one person exclusively wrote all of the books until way beyond the world was established is a purely theoretical one. It could be talked about even if you haven't read a single book.

[matt b]

Uh... No, the issue of who should be credited with creating a world in a series of novels when one person exclusively wrote all of the books until way beyond the world was established is a purely theoretical one.

No, it's not. The person who created a world is the person who created a world. The person who wrote a book is the person who wrote a book. "A" is "A" and all that. Creating a world (or a character or a plot) =/= writing. If you and I sat down and planned a book, planned the world, planned the characters, planned the plot, and then I do the actual writing, there's nothing theoretical about who created the world. We did, even if I just did all the writing myself.

[Diziet]

No, because to the reader, the world only exists through and in the books. Whatever is going on in the head of the author's friend doesn't matter.

[matt b]

No, because to the reader, the world only exists through and in the books. Whatever is going on in the head of the author's friend doesn't matter.

What exists the reader is irrelevant, what matters is what actually exists. The world was created as soon as the world was created, long before any books were written. What part of that is difficult for you to wrap your head around? Again, if you and I sit down and create a world, a plot, a number of characters, guess what? We just created a world! It doesn't matter if we never publish a written word about it, it doesn't mean we didn't create that world. To expand on Toblakai's earlier point, if neither Erikson nor ICE had published a single book, the Malazan World still would have been co-created by them.

Again, creating a world = creating a world. Writing = writing. There's some really basic elements of logic involved that you're just failing to grasp in any way.

[Diziet]

What exists the reader is irrelevant, what matters is what actually exists.

Since we're talking about a series of BOOKS, the only thing that matters is what exists to the reader. We can sit down and come up with a bunch of ideas for a book, but these are only that - ideas. Only when the book is written can we say that the world was created.

And btw, all of your condescending bullshit can be easily flipped around.

[matt b]

Since we're talking about a series of BOOKS, the only thing that matters is what exists to the reader. We can sit down and come up with a bunch of ideas for a book, but these are only that - ideas. Only when the book is written can we say that the world was created.

No, that's not true at all. Again, if you and I create a world, characters, plots, and outline then that world exists in some way, at least for us. Why should what exists in our minds, the minds of the creators, be less valid than what exists in the mind of a potential future reader?

And btw, all of your condescending bullshit can be easily flipped around.

I'm sorry I'm coming across as condescending, but when all you do is deny simple facts you're not leaving me with anywhere else to go.

[Toblakai]

Since we're talking about a series of BOOKS, the only thing that matters is what exists to the reader. We can sit down and come up with a bunch of ideas for a book, but these are only that - ideas. Only when the book is written can we say that the world was created.

And btw, all of your condescending bullshit can be easily flipped around.

Nobody agrees with you (because you don't care about the facts) and now I learn that you haven't even read most of Erikson and none of ICE. Go to another thread and leave Malazan readers in peace. You are trolling, purposeful or not.

[Andrew Gilfellon]

Some people like ICE'S contribution to the Malazan world. Some people don't.

Some people like Erikson and some don't.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

The End.

[Diziet]

No, that's not true at all. Again, if you and I create a world, characters, plots, and outline then that world exists in some way, at least for us.

They exist in "some way," to those who came up with the ideas, certainly. But not necessarily for everyone else.

Why should what exists in our minds, the minds of the creators, be less valid than what exists in the mind of a potential future reader?

But no one is saying that, what exists in the mind of a creator is only less valid than what exists in the actual works that are available to the potential reader.

[Anatúrinbor]

But no one is saying that, what exists in the mind of a creator is only less valid than what exists in the actual works that are available to the potential reader.

I don't agree with the other things you've said but this point specifically is not that outrageous or insane to me, not that I necessarily agree with it. But perhaps if you insist on discussing it further it could have it's own thread, seeing that this one is about to reach its post limit anyway.

[Darth Richard II]

Dude. It can be your opinion that 2 +2 = 5 all you want, you're still WRONG.

I think we are being mega trolled here. I'm kinda impressed.

[Diziet]

Dude. It can be your opinion that 2 +2 = 5 all you want, you're still WRONG.

Thanks for letting us know, but I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.

[Darth Richard II]

I give up. Y'all can go fuck yourselves.

[aceluby]

I give up. Y'all can go fuck yourselves.

Easy there cowboy, it's a lit discussion, no need to attack everyone.

[Rhom]

I give up. Y'all can go fuck yourselves.

That's the Bakker thread I think...

:leaving:

[jagilki]

This thread is great. Can somebody give me some Popcorn.

(coincidentally started re-reading Gardens this week, before looking at this thread)

[Darth Richard II]

Sure, butter?

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

Haha, I TOLD you the Bakker thread makesnus all fuckn nuts!!!!! I love it though.