Hippocras Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 tPatQ clearly shows that dragons are not invulnerable or allmighty. And Dany's dragons are much smaller than the century old dragons in the Dance.The first dance of dragons was actually about female birthrights and inheritance. There just happened to be dragons. If you take the dance more metaphorically, Baratheons and Martells both have a certain amount of "dragon blood" ie inter-marriage with Targaryens. If a war happens out of rival claims for the throne from Tommen (who is younger) and Myrcella, as well as between Dany and fAegon, that would be a dance of "dragons" Targ descendants and fighting for female versus male throne rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COYStars Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Oh God I hope not. Tyrion is a vile self loathing creature. If he is able to control that kind of power its a sad day for Westeros Tyrion certainly is not vile. The reason for his self-loathing is that he actually has a conscience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevasTra82 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I think Tyrion is just an extremely bitter person. He's bitter about being a dwarf, about what his father did with Tysha, being constantly hated and screwed over by his sister. When he attempts to help his family, he's only met with disdain. Then he marries Sansa, who then treats him like crap, even though he is more or less a gentleman to her (not forcing her into bed). He has to sneak out of Westeros after being falsely accused of killing his nephew.... Tyrion is not a vile, evil person. He's a bitter one because all his life, people treat him like crap for one reason or another. And he soothes his pain with Wine and Women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsays Fleyed Lips Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Tyrion is so beautifully multilayered, I'm never sure what response he is written to evoke from me. Tyrion is the character I find myself wanting to win, whatever winning is in this story. Tyrion struggles with his humanity and ostracism. He thrived when he acted as hand and so many of his extraordinary characteristics rose and shined during his tenure. He was devastated when he realized his father was really going to have him killed, his descent into depression and self destruction was just further proof of his great humanity. Tyrion has many great things left to do. Riding a dragon seems a very natural thing for this really amazing character to do. Targ or not, Tyrion would serve well on a dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouKnowNothingJonSnow Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 To the OP, yes, I think it IS foreshadowing. In fact, I think it is more than foreshadowning, it's a hint that the Tyrion is a targ theories are correct. There have been several hints along the way, as we all know. Tyrion having different color eyes, something that Jaime and Cersei don't have. Deep purple, not black. His affinity for dragons (and saddles) he reveals to Jon Snow on the way to the Wall. Tywin's behavior towards him and telling him he's couldn't prove he wasn't his. Plus, if Tyrion isn't Tywin's, he didn't kill his father, which will offer a bit of redemptiom for him internally. And as others have said, the linguistic clues point to Viserion for Tyrion and Rhaegal for Jon Snow. Viserion is named for Dany's brother, and Tyrion IS Dany's brother (half-brother, anyway, also appropriate for the dwarf). Rheagar is named for Jon's father. Further, some of Viserion's scales are gold, and Tyrion is also half Lannister. Good comment on the weirwood imagery. And I do think Viserion will snare one Dragon, for a while at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouKnowNothingJonSnow Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 FWIW, I have a crazy, other foreshadowing theory, though it is the show, not the book, but I think the writers may know something. Remember when Tywin asks Arya where she is from, and discovers she's of the North? And then he asks her about the opinion of Robb in the North. And she says the tales say he rides a direwolf into battle? I'm thinking we could see Arya ride Nymeria at some point after she returns, and realizes how well she can warg and what her wolf dreams really are. If she could somehow link up with someone with intel (Brotherhood/Stoneheart, Jaime/Brienne) she could go around crossing names off her list traveling with a pack of wolves at night riding Nymeria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Why do people always interpret the saying "the dragon has three heads" as "there will be three riders"? Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renhet Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 I believe the foreshadowing of a flying Tyrion Lannister has been happening as early as in aGoT. When Tyrion is a prisoner at the Eyrie he is being threatened to be sent flying through the moongate Lysa, Sweetrobin and Mord are all mocking him, "You fly", Mord had promised him."Blue is calling" was written in blood on the cell walls. "Can you fly, my lord of Lannister?" Lady Lysa asked. "Does a dwarf have wings?"...And Sweetrobin is constantly begging his mother to let Tyrion fly out of the moongate. Visenya rode her dragon to the Eyrie, to give the young lord Arryn a ride on Vhagar, maybe Tyrion will do the same with Visenya's namesake, Viserion. But this time the lord of the Eyrie will fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Human Abstract Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Why do people always interpret the saying "the dragon has three heads" as "there will be three riders"? Just curious. This bugs me as well. I have seen arguments why that is the case, but it is certainly not proven. I can conceive of many possible alternate interpretations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsays Fleyed Lips Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Human Abstract, I'd be interested to hear some possible interpretations. There are 3 dragons, it just seemed logical that 3 riders were needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambi76 Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 I actually find it physically a bit unbelievable that the "waddeling dwarf" will be able to ride a Dragon. I think Tyrion will be important to "tame" the Dragons with his nerd knowledge, but will probably need to hire a rider for "his dragon". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Crow Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Tyrion will cast a large shadow over all Mereen. It is known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laura898 Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 I actually find it physically a bit unbelievable that the "waddeling dwarf" will be able to ride a Dragon. I think Tyrion will be important to "tame" the Dragons with his nerd knowledge, but will probably need to hire a rider for "his dragon". A bit unbelieveable, yes, but I think to fulfill his arc, Tyrion will need to ride a dragon. It's something he's dreamed about his whole life. He'll find a way, even if perhaps he dies while doing so (probably won't die while riding a dragon) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anima Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I've seen that debate so many times about people imagining Tyrion on a dragon. As it's been said many times that Tyrion could not ride a dragon even if wanted to. Tyrion is a dwarf. This means as many people have pointed out that he has so much trouble riding a horse that he needs a special saddle to hold on and he uses horses specially trained (and probably rather placid, he's certainly not riding fiery-tempered stallions). Now we've seen with Daenerys that a dragon is as anyone can imagine a lot harder to ride than a horse (remember she's a proficient rider after all her time with the Dothraki). That is because for one they're far bigger (though it's told their body is lithe like a snakes' with biiiiiiig wings they are still bigger than a horse). They also happen to fly which is a whole other matter than the hopping steps of a horse (anyone who ever got on a small sized plane can tell you). Also dragons from what we've seen so far are the opposite of tame to say the least (and they breathe fire, quite a detterent to even trying to ride one from Tyrion's point of view I imagine). Moreover it seems implied that dragons are creatures which respect only strength (Tyrion definitely passes the mental strength check-up but he also definitely fails the physical fitness exam). So even imagining he makes a special saddle which wouldn't really help him since the dragon is still too big and still flies so he'll just be a small man dangled about on a dragon's back. That he has some dragon blood in his veins to handle the dragon's temper (which doesn't really work for Daenerys by the way, they just don't burn and eat her so far). And that the dragon foregoes it's physical requirements for it's rider especially because it's the Tyrion that almost everybody likes. Do you really imagine Tyrion with all those perks when since the beginning he is THE character that's charcaterised by it's flaws most of all? (and his good sides despite his circumstances). GRRM wouldn't destroy one of his best characters by making him an impossible (and let us add ridiculous) dragon rider. Tyrion will play a role with the dragons, that is clearly foreshadowed. He's wished to see one (and dreamed to ride one) we know ever since he was little and has great knowledge about the creatures since he read every tome about dragons he could get his small hands on. One of the main reasons he is going towards Daenerys can be assumed to be the dragons presence about her. However he most likely IMO will not ride one. That doesn't mean he won't support Daenerys. In fact he most probably will be one of Daenerys' most useful allies. A gamechanger even for Meereen and the whole stalemate there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoid Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 I just don't see Tyrion "riding" a dragon. If Dany's ride with Drogon showed us anything it was that riding a dragon is very exhausting on top of dangerous. And Dany became a great rider through the Dorthraki. A dwarf that can't even ride a trained dog well does not strike me as one capable of riding a dragon into battle. The one exception is if Tyrion "rides" a dragon like Bran would, via magic remote control from a distance away (like with a certain magic death horn).I dunno, Dany rode Drogon bareback. Tyrion has a specialty with custom saddles. I feel like Martin drove that point in pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevengeOfTheStarks Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Why do people always interpret the saying "the dragon has three heads" as "there will be three riders"? Just curious. This bugs me as well, because it seems to me that when people quote this prophecy in relation to Dany's dragons, they're taking it completely out of its original context. The dragon with the three heads refers to the prince that was promised. Given all the various prophecies about crowns and heads in this series, I like to think this means the prince that was promised, the dragon, will have three crowns. It's also nifty that Jon, unbeknownst to him, probably has a right to two out of three crowns right now: he's king of westeros as Rhaegar's son (legitimate son if he and Lyanna secretly married) and King in the North through Rob's secret letter. He just needs a third crown to mark him as the dragon, and I'm inclined to think this will be accomplished with him becoming King Beyond the Wall after the NW betrayal. Another thing, Dany's dragons are relatively tiny and really not that effective or powerful as fighting machines. I don't even see them being a huge gamechanger if Victarion does manage to control one with his dragon horn. Why does everyone think it matters so much who actually rides one of these puny dragons? The only one that's remotely a player is Drogon who is all Dany's. For that matter, how is it going to matter if one of the Stark kids manages to Warg a dragon? What is that going to change? The problems of Westeros are so much bigger than all three literal dragons combined. Maybe a figurative Dragon can be a unifier to bring the warring factions together, to get people to stop the petty throne games to deal with the Others. That's why I think the Dragon having three "heads" i.e. crowns is important. This three-crowned person is a unifier. And the Others themselves are not going to be melted by three little Dragons. We all talk about Martin subverting tropes. If there's a fantasy trope of the ages that really needs subversion it's this idea of the all-powerful dragon and dragon-rider who come in to save the day. I think these dragons are the biggest red herring and they can't change anything about the giant mess created by humans. Only humans can change that. Even Drogon is only going to be important to the extent that he can be used by Dany as leverage to get the Dothraki behind her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Human Abstract Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Human Abstract, I'd be interested to hear some possible interpretations. There are 3 dragons, it just seemed logical that 3 riders were needed.Ok, I get that. But that isn't likely what the phrase "the dragon has three heads" means. It doesn't allude, symbolize, lead, whatever to the riding of dragons in any way. A much more fitting interpretation is that there will be three people who could "head" the dragon faction. We have for sure 2. jon snow may be another. Who can say.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roose on the Loose Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Drogon eats a girl and is ridden by Dany. Viseryon eats a cross bowman and is ridden by Tyrion. Rhegal eats a bull and is ridden by who? Jon? Vic? Gendry? I mostly stole that theory from Fire Eater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Gareth Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I actually find it physically a bit unbelievable that the "waddeling dwarf" will be able to ride a Dragon. I think Tyrion will be important to "tame" the Dragons with his nerd knowledge, but will probably need to hire a rider for "his dragon". That's kind of been covered in foreshadowing already too. Tyrion's smart enough to make his own saddle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoneofYourBiz Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Ok, I get that. But that isn't likely what the phrase "the dragon has three heads" means. It doesn't allude, symbolize, lead, whatever to the riding of dragons in any way.A much more fitting interpretation is that there will be three people who could "head" the dragon faction. We have for sure 2. jon snow may be another. Who can say.... I always thought it could refer to one person with multiple "heads". For instance, Jon is a man, a wolf, and likely a dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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