who tried to kill Bran?

[Frey Kings]

I think people are trying to connect too many dots to make Littlefinger the ultimate mastermind behind the war of the five kings. I'm still convinced (and supported by the text) that it was done by joffrey to try to impress Robert.

but how would Joffrey know where to find a assassin that fast? He had to go outside of Winterfell to a nearby dodgy town and meet with dodgy people to organize an assassin attempt. And the hound is with him 24/7. He would've said something later on or someone would notice that tall guarddog missing and Cersei has obsession with keeping with her kids close to her.

[Frey Kings]

Joffrey is not the brightest tool in the shed either, he told his kingsguard to kill tyrion right in front of everyone.

[Guest Thorrand]

but how would Joffrey know where to find a assassin that fast? He had to go outside of Winterfell to a nearby dodgy town and meet with dodgy people to organize an assassin attempt. And the hound is with him 24/7. He would've said something later on or someone would notice that tall guarddog missing and Cersei has obsession with keeping with her kids close to her.

It could have been anybody. He wasn't a particularly effective assassin. Joffrey having to supply the weapon and all.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

I don't understand the point of him not talking about it as a point against him doing. It was botched, why brag?

[KINGpanther]

I thought Joffrey did it because Bran humiliated him in a sword fight.

[Guest Thorrand]

I thought Joffrey did it because Bran humiliated him in a sword fight.

Joffrey never fought Bran (or Robb) Bran beat Tommen. Robb was going to fight Joffrey but he (Joffrey) pretended it was beneath him to weasel out of it.

[Atroksia]

It was Joffrey imo. Not because he was humiliated by the Starks back then, but maybe because he thought of the assasination as an act of mercy towards a meaningless (in his mind) cripple and/or because he noticed his mother wanting him hurt/dead, maybe by eavesdropping. Only Joffrey would be that cruel and dumb as fk (that dagger) at the same time. Imho.

[Hippocras]

It was Joffrey imo. Not because he was humiliated by the Starks back then, but maybe because he thought of the assasination as an act of mercy towards a meaningless (in his mind) cripple and/or because he noticed his mother wanting him hurt/dead, maybe by eavesdropping. Only Joffrey would be that cruel and dumb as fk (that dagger) at the same time. Imho.

Yeah if he wanted to please anyone, as his motive, then it was his mother not his father he wanted to please.

[Mark Antony]

This thread is awfully frustrating to read

[mcmnky]

This thread is awfully frustrating to read

As someone new in town slowly working through older threads, I find this one not untypical of how things go around here. In both good and bad ways.

Clearly based on what is in the books and what GRRM has said, Joff is behind the attack on Bran, and LF had no part in it. But I still think LF as the mastermind is interesting in what it tells us about LF, a character we expect to play a major role in books to come.

Other than the practicalities of LF getting the kill order to WF after finding out about Bran's fall (and the author's statement above), the thing is dripping with LF. He is not above killing, even children. (And too quick to kill, IMHO. He's not very creative in his plotting.) He also prefers to keep his hands clean, letting others do the dirty work. He also likes to take care of loose ends, providing suspects for his crimes. He also has a thing for framing Lannisters.

Yes, LF is a key player in the Game of Thrones, pulling many strings behind the scenes. He plays the long game as well as moving swiftly to take advantage of unexpected occurrences. But he also a player with serious limitations, one who is getting schooled by Varys.

The lie about the dagger, to turn Cat against Tyrion, is poor work. It's sloppy. He should know Tyrion never bets against his brother. Was there no tournament Jamie won to be the scene of Tyrion's acquisition of the dagger? Even if LF doesn't respect Cat or Ned enough to think they might question his story, at least have some respect for your work. Unless you think the poorly constructed story is on purpose, to see if Cat would question it, it's a disappointing attempt. All the more so, because Cat is so eager to believe and does accept it for so long.

I think of LF as the D-1 basketball player who played at a mid-major. Never went pro, but dominates the play ground game. He is obviously very skilled and knowledgeable about his sport. But when up against an NBA pro, even a past-his-prime journeyman bench warmer, he just gets schooled. Except for handful of the very best ready to make an instant impact in the pros, the gap between college and pro basketball is HUGE. And those college players are very, very good at what they do. The pros are just that much better, in much part to playing with and against a higher level of opponent.

Varys and Illyrio are pros. They play the game at a level above LF. That a plot against Bran fits so well into LF's MO, and how he uses the situation, tells us alot about at what level LF is playing.

[Lady Woodland]

As someone new in town slowly working through older threads, I find this one not untypical of how things go around here. In both good and bad ways.

Clearly based on what is in the books and what GRRM has said, Joff is behind the attack on Bran, and LF had no part in it. But I still think LF as the mastermind is interesting in what it tells us about LF, a character we expect to play a major role in books to come.

Other than the practicalities of LF getting the kill order to WF after finding out about Bran's fall (and the author's statement above), the thing is dripping with LF. He is not above killing, even children. (And too quick to kill, IMHO. He's not very creative in his plotting.) He also prefers to keep his hands clean, letting others do the dirty work. He also likes to take care of loose ends, providing suspects for his crimes. He also has a thing for framing Lannisters.

Yes, LF is a key player in the Game of Thrones, pulling many strings behind the scenes. He plays the long game as well as moving swiftly to take advantage of unexpected occurrences. But he also a player with serious limitations, one who is getting schooled by Varys.

"snipped for space"

Yes it is hard when you are new, you'll get used to it fairly quick though, use the search feature (lots), & type in your search words & you will almost def come up with something, if It's left field go to the 'Heresy' pages. & don't be put off by some of they people here.. Good luck & happy searching.

Bolded...Likely will get you stomped on... :cheers:

[Maesyn]

Doesn't someone, maybe Tyrion or Jamie, say that Little Finger lost the Valyrian steel dagger to Robert when Jaime was unhorsed? Therefore the dagger was in Robert's possession, which Joffery steals from him to give to the catspaw to kill Bran. Joffery had motive and opportunity... And we can't discount the crazy factor.

I believe Joffery tries to have Bran killed for two reasons: humiliating Tommen in the yard, and to put Bran of his misery. Joffery is petty, crazy and full of pride and Bran embarrassing his brother was enough for Joffery to hate him and want to kill him. I've always felt that was his primary motive and the overhearing Robert thing gave him a spur by planting the idea and also justified the murder in Joffery's mind.

[AGameofDeath]

Several characters toward the end of ASoS made it known that it was Joffrey's doing.

[myufa]

What about Varys? He has been trying to creat chaos in Westeros to make it easier for the Targs to take over. He may have done it to start the stark/lannister war.

[Viking]

Does anybody think it is plausible that the attempt on Bran's life wasn't made to try and kill him?

Joffrey certainly doesn't confirm that he had Bran murdered, however much Tyrion might have convinced himself of this. I'm going to suggest three alternate possibilities behind the attempt on Bran's life.

1. The attempt was made to cover up for the burning of the library. The assassin arrives suddenly and tells Catlyn that she wasn't supposed to be there, as if somebody had told him he only had to kill a crippled boy. Here the assassin is sent by the person who burns the library. Why might this be significant? Well because Tyrion had just taken some rare books about dragons from the Winterfell library with him on the way to the wall. Presumably these books stayed at the wall after the library burns and were transported to oldtown in the chest that went with Sam and Aemon.

2. The attempt is made to provoke lannister/stark conflict. This is the LF did it theory. Whether LF send a man with the dagger he won from Tyrion in the bet or if he just made it up on the spot when Catlyn came with the dagger is still unknown.

3. The attempt is made to sabotage prophecy. Somebody with good knowledge of prophecy (maesters/septons/the great other) send the murdere knowing Bran's role with the Three Eyed Crow from Prophecy. Perhaps the Reeds were sent to him once the "good guys" realized his role too.

Obviously all three are mutually contradictory. On the scale of Canon-Likely-Plausible-Unlikely-Impossible they are all either Plausible or Unlikely.

I think the assassins incompetence suggests a simple hireling, I think Cersei's behaviour suggests she hoped somebody else would do it/she would kill robert before it became relevant. I think Jaimies behaviour is just indifferent. I don't think Joffrey had the compassion to see Bran as a suffering being that would benenfit from being put out of his misery, unless Joffrey did it in a matter where he showed off or commanded it himself in public.

Whatever the reason behind the attempt I don't think the Lannisters actually did it. Joffrey, Jamie and Cersei all seem sufficiently incapable, incompetent or indifferent.

[Stannis's Lawyer]

I'm with Ran here. It was Joff, plain and simple. Nobody else.

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

It absolutely was Joff. That is the complete reason that Joff treated him like a fool at his wedding and pointed at him as he was dying. Tywin told Tyrion that he had a certain cunning when they were speaking alone in the small council chamber but that his mouth would land him in trouble. Tywin was quite right about that.

Tyrion figured out that it was Joff that had someone try to kill Bran and basically told him when the gifts were being presented after he received the Valyrian steel sword from Tywin and Joff took the sword and shredded the book apart that Tyrion had given him.

Tyrion as much as told Joff he knew what he had done to Bran and said he'd even replace the book with a dagger one of dragon bone and Valeryian steel. Joff looks at him sharply and says it would need some jewels as dragonbone is too plain.

Not direct quotes, but no doubt, it was Joff who tried to have Bran killed.

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

but how would Joffrey know where to find a assassin that fast? He had to go outside of Winterfell to a nearby dodgy town and meet with dodgy people to organize an assassin attempt. And the hound is with him 24/7. He would've said something later on or someone would notice that tall guarddog missing and Cersei has obsession with keeping with her kids close to her.

It says in the books that Joff could have taken the services of a free rider or any number of other people who attach themselves to the King's procession. Someone willing to do something for the Prince's good grace and a few coppers. Joff was angry with Bran for besting Tommen when they were playing at swords. Joff was just that petty. He even joked with the Hound about having a dog kill a wolf. These are things Tyrion thought of.

[Hippocras]

It absolutely was Joff. That is the complete reason that Joff treated him like a fool at his wedding and pointed at him as he was dying. Tywin told Tyrion that he had a certain cunning when they were speaking alone in the small council chamber but that his mouth would land him in trouble. Tywin was quite right about that.

Tyrion figured out that it was Joff that had someone try to kill Bran and basically told him when the gifts were being presented after he received the Valyrian steel sword from Tywin and Joff took the sword and shredded the book apart that Tyrion had given him.

Tyrion as much as told Joff he knew what he had done to Bran and said he'd even replace the book with a dagger one of dragon bone and Valeryian steel. Joff looks at him sharply and says it would need some jewels as dragonbone is too plain.

Not direct quotes, but no doubt, it was Joff who tried to have Bran killed.

I don't dispute Joffrey's involvement in any way, yet still suspect indirect LF involvement.

1. Joffrey didn't give a shit about his father, so would not do it to please him. When Robert died he could not have cared less.

2. Joff had no misguided compassion himself so would not have done it to put Bran out of his misery either. To him, Bran suffering for the rest of his life was rather an idea that would have pleased him greatly.

3. Joffrey was deliberately offensive in his behaviour from the moment he arrived at Winterfell and made not the slightest attempt to disguise his contempt. He was goaded on in this behaviour by various Lannister men such as the Hound, Meryn Trant, etc.

Littlefinger did not hire the catspaw. He did not directly request the murder. However it is EXTREMELY likely he used the occasion of the visit North to spread malicious rumours and plant the seeds of antagonism in particular with Joffrey, knowing the effect it would have.

There are plenty of later examples of Littlefinger's influence over Joffrey. Littlefinger may even have suggested Joffrey claim the knife from the armoury, knowing the King would not miss it. Littlefinger also most certainly sent spies of his own North with the King, some of whom may have been those very same men at arms who were goading Joffrey's offecsive behaviour. Their directions would simply have been to make sure the visit did not go smoothly and that Lannisters and Starks had old divisions made fresh. That is really all it would take for him to launch his plan to set them at each others' throats.

[krtmd]

[Did Littlefinger influence Joffrey to try and kill Bran?]

Well, Littlefinger did have a certain hidden inflouence over Joff... but he was not at Winterfell, and that needs to be remembered.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Month/2008/07