who tried to kill Bran?

[Rooseman]

I agree Joffrey was likely involved, however I doubt the motive, and suspect he was nudged.

Makes zero sense. If there was an agent of Littlefinger around Winterfell, he could have payed the peasant himself instead of involving Joffrey.

[Hippocras]

Makes zero sense. If there was an agent of Littlefinger around Winterfell, he could have payed the peasant himself instead of involving Joffrey.

If an agent of LF was involved then the goal was to provoke antagonism between Starks and Lannisters, not really to get Bran dead, so why make such an assumption? Joffrey's involvement served the actual objective which was about provoking spiraling hatred.

Cersei was the only one with a real motive for wanting Bran dead. LF's motives would have been different.

[Rooseman]

Joffrey's involvement served the actual objective which was about provoking spiraling hatred.

Because the assassin got caught and the dagger led back to the Lannisters, which was never part of the plan.

[Hippocras]

Because the assassin got caught and the dagger led back to the Lannisters, which was never part of the plan.

How do you know? We never saw the actual planners making the actual plan. Providing a fancy dagger, when any old dagger would have done the job is a clue that what you say is not actually true.

The dagger was meant to be found.

[Rooseman]

How do you know? We never saw the actual planners making the actual plan. Providing a fancy dagger, when any old dagger would have done the job is a clue that what you say is not actually true.

The dagger was meant to be found.

Yeah but now you're just speculating.

Let's assume the assassin was supposed to leave the dagger as evidence, then again Joffrey's involvement is totally unnecessary. He could have been hired and told to leave it without including Joff at all.

[Waylin Stark]

It's mentioned that Joffrey did it after hearing Robert say it would be a mercy.

It was solved poorly though IMO. By that time we'd have forgotten all about it, and it's never actually revealed. Instead Tyrion and Jaime just assume it and with a bit of evidence it turns out to be true.

I think it'll be poorly translated on TV.

In contrast, Tysha not being a whore and Lysa poisoning Jon Arryn were far better handled.

[Rooseman]

It's mentioned that Joffrey did it after hearing Robert say it would be a mercy.

It was solved poorly though IMO. By that time we'd have forgotten all about it, and it's never actually revealed. Instead Tyrion and Jaime just assume it and with a bit of evidence it turns out to be true.

I think it'll be poorly translated on TV.

In contrast, Tysha not being a whore and Lysa poisoning Jon Arryn were far better handled.

Totally agree on all of that.

[Greywolf2375]

It's mentioned that Joffrey did it after hearing Robert say it would be a mercy.

It was solved poorly though IMO. By that time we'd have forgotten all about it, and it's never actually revealed. Instead Tyrion and Jaime just assume it and with a bit of evidence it turns out to be true.

I think it'll be poorly translated on TV.

In contrast, Tysha not being a whore and Lysa poisoning Jon Arryn were far better handled.

What did you think would happen? Joffrey would proclaim it?

It is revealed and they used the evidence they had - what else would be used to solve a mystery? Joffreys reaction to the sword, etc are the means for both the reader and the characters to put it together. The book reveals it with two independent people coming to the same conclusion.

In the two cases you point out we are told, not shown. In this one, we are shown the answer.

[Waylin Stark]

What did you think would happen? Joffrey would proclaim it?

It is revealed and they used the evidence they had - what else would be used to solve a mystery? Joffreys reaction to the sword, etc are the means for both the reader and the characters to put it together. The book reveals it with two independent people coming to the same conclusion.

In the two cases you point out we are told, not shown. In this one, we are shown the answer.

True. This one was a mystery for the readers.

Still, I'm curious to know how they'll depict in the show.

Also the show confirms many things which were just implied in the novels.

So maybe they'll state it outright.

[The Eunuch]

It was Joffrey. It is known.

As much as I love Littlefinger, it can't be him : the time lapse between Bran's fall and the assassination attempt is too short... Littlefinger must have learned Bran's fall weeks after it happened. That's impossible he sent a killer so quickly.

[Colonel Green]

If an agent of LF was involved then the goal was to provoke antagonism between Starks and Lannisters, not really to get Bran dead, so why make such an assumption? Joffrey's involvement served the actual objective which was about provoking spiraling hatred.

Joffrey doesn't need to be involved if the goal is to frame the Lannisters. They would just frame the Lannisters. Moreover, if the plan was to actually leave the dagger behind (rather than the assassin being killed), that would be a crappy frame-job, and invite obvious suspicion that the Lannisters weren't actually behind it, but that whoever did it wants the Starks to think it was them.

GRRM's answer makes clear that it was Joffrey. It's not a very satisfying resolution, but that doesn't mean there's some bigger conspiracy yet to be revealed. It just means that one plot thread ended with a whimper.

[Kaguya]

I think that was poor plot writing on GRRMs part having Joff do it, it would have made more sense logically had it been Cersei or LF

[jet199]

I think it was Cersei through Joffrey. When Cersei says "Robert was saying" or "Robert always used to say" it is basically her code for "I said". Cersei we know that Cersei and Jaime were talking about putting Bran out of his misery from early in the morning and apparently Cersei was still saying the same thing into the night. Robert probably just joined in the debate but Jaime can't blame his sweet sister so he decides Robert encouraged Joff when it was probably his mother going on and on about it all day which made him think it was a good idea.

[Hippocras]

I think it was Cersei through Joffrey. When Cersei says "Robert was saying" or "Robert always used to say" it is basically her code for "I said". Cersei we know that Cersei and Jaime were talking about putting Bran out of his misery from early in the morning and apparently Cersei was still saying the same thing into the night. Robert probably just joined in the debate but Jaime can't blame his sweet sister so he decides Robert encouraged Joff when it was probably his mother going on and on about it all day which made him think it was a good idea.

Maybe. I still don't get the need to provide a dagger though. Plenty of daggers around and no need for a fancy one if it was not meant to be found.

Was the intention to frame ROBERT?

[Lady Woodland]

I accept that Joff was behind, but I agree that Joff wanting Robert's approval feels like a weak motive. I think the problem with it is that the incest twist caused GRRM to play up the idea that Joff identifies himself as a Lannister during AGOT, having the lion included with stag on his sigil and naming his sword "Lion's Tooth" for example. Then in ACOK he is apathetic about Robert's death. So by the time the cat incident is mentioned and Joff mouthing off to Tywin about how better Robert is happens, it feels at odds with what we've already witnessed from Joff.

I may be alone in my theory about Joffrey's motive, but for what it's worth.

I recently watched the first HBO series again & I remembered the chapter from the books & they collaborate pretty closely, I don't have my copy on hand atm but you will probably all remember anyway.

Tyrion encounters Joffrey in the yard while still at Winterfell. He comes upon Joff who is clearly amused by Bran's fall & mentions it would be terrible to be crippled. Tyrion states something like speaking for cripples I disagree. In the show he slaps him & humiliates Joff in front of his 'friends/guards'. He cries & says I'm going to tell my mother, to that Tyrion responds with "while you're there you can talk about why you haven't been to see Lord & Lady Stark to pay your respects, your absence has been noted.

In terms of a motive, killing off Bran would have been nothing to Joff & as he sees this a perfect opportunity to get revenge on Tyrion by setting him up, he is the least likely to give any consideration to the outcome either way, Tyrion was set up by Joff.

So to be clear, his motive was pay back, not trying to impress his father, - remember he said "I'll tell mother", his mother's House arms are side by side with the Baratheon Stag, he didn't give a shit about what Robert thought - he's a mummy's boy. Yes it was clumsy so it has Joff all over it.

[Hippocras]

^

That make more sense than the current official story.

But what if Cersei planted the idea about the dagger in Joffrey's head indirectly?

And since we know the knife was never actually Tyrion's and that was LF's contribution, what if HER goal was to drive a wedge between Ned and Robert by framing Robert? It was Robert's knife, not Tyrion's so that is where the blame would have fallen if LF had not intervened with his lies.

We did see her talking with Jamie about how she did not trust Ned and was worried about him coming to KL. It would also be consistent with her obvious efforts to relieve the Starks of their wolves as well while making Robert look terrible in Ned's eyes.

[Lady Woodland]

^

That make more sense than the current official story.

But what if Cersei planted the idea about the dagger in Joffrey's head indirectly?

And since we know the knife was never actually Tyrion's and that was LF's contribution, what if HER goal was to drive a wedge between Ned and Robert by framing Robert? It was Robert's knife, not Tyrion's so that is where the blame would have fallen if LF had not intervened with his lies.

We did see her talking with Jamie about how she did not trust Ned and was worried about him coming to KL. It would also be consistent with her obvious efforts to relieve the Starks of their wolves as well while making Robert look terrible in Ned's eyes.

I agree Joff is such a mummy's boy she would have had no problem with the hint, can actually picture Joff wanting to do it to please/impress her much more believable to me than Joff wanting to impress Robert. I have a sneaking feeling Joffrey might have known Robert wasn't his real dad.

That scene in the show is def not in the books, I watched the commentary on the 1st episode & D & W stated they put that into the show on purpose to show the relationship of Jamie & Cersei being brother & sister after filming the original pilot (most of it was re-shot/cast). - after they previewed the show to an audience hardly anyone picked up on their incestuous relationship so they had to invent a scene not from the books. -

If you recall - Cersei talks about Jamie never worrying about anything, & she worries about everything, she pointedly brings up jumping of cliffs as children & Jamie say's it was all good till you told father.

In the books we don't have a really clear picture of how well Cersei really knows about Ned as we don't have a POV for her at this point I would have thought she would just be jealous of their affection & friendship, I would say Robert would have been loud & proud about his BFF Ned & so a plot to frame Ned wouldn't wash well for what it's worth imho.

[Hippocras]

No we do.

Bran, while climbing and before being seen, overhears a whole conversation about Cersei not liking it that Ned is going to KL.

The conversation exists it was just moved from Winterfell to KL for the show.

[Lady Woodland]

No we do.

Bran, while climbing and before being seen, overhears a whole conversation about Cersei not liking it that Ned is going to KL.

The conversation exists it was just moved from Winterfell to KL for the show.

thanks I'll have another look see, I have everything I thought was important with coloured bookmarks & notes on them but they keep falling out, I think a chapter journal with the page numbers for the quotes maybe a better way of keeping track of it all.

[TheSnape]

I think Cersei did it herself. Gave Joff's dagger to the assassin. It makes much more sense